Squonk wrote: He does have a point. I looked at the CD covers of some of my daughters music and on most of them there are no guitars whatsoever, just programming.

But the point I would like to make is that - Shops and the radio don't determine what music there is the world. I personally think that there is a lot of good music out there and the INTERNET is closing the gap. So don't let cruise ships, Radio Stations, Shops etc determine the state of music ?

I would LOVE to know what Cruise Line he's been on.
I have never seen a single ship in any of the major cruise lines doing the FL-Caribbean runs, that does not have at least two guitar players onboard.

Bah - it's ain't music if there's no bass line...now where did I stash that bass ?

I really don't think any of us should get too excited about this.
So popular music doesn't focus on the guitar any more.
Who needs 'em. >

Congratulations you are now part of the underground music scene.
Welcome!
Some of us have been here for a long time... So pull up a chair and let's make some awesome noise.
:woohoo:

Doomsower wrote:
...Congratulations you are now part of the underground music scene.
Welcome!
Some of us have been here for a long time... So pull up a chair and let's make some awesome noise.
:woohoo:

Cheers to that! :goodtimes:

I watched over the years as young computer genius kids strive to get their pc generated music to sound like real guitars, and ask my opinion... They could write the notes and eventually even learned to bend the tones but it never sounded right to me. The drums were ok and the pianos were spot on, but the electric guitars always sounded fake. Perhaps modern software has dealt with these problems or simply just left electric guitar sounds out of pop songs because of that, I dunno.
Learning to play electric guitar like a hero is just too much hard work for the modern kids who have too many distractions... My guitar heroes spent their entire childhood alone in a room with nothing but a guitar and a record collection and then interacted with friends who had similar interests... gone are those days

Very true, but they still spend plenty of time in their rooms with friends who have the same interests. The difference is that's online gaming.

With everything available near-instantly and online, there's not the same wait for a new album to hit the shelves (requiring you to leave the house and buy it). I love the convenience of being able to legally download music at the touch of a button, but it's not the same as opening up a physical album along with its cover art etc. To me there's a bit less connection with it all.

And in fairness to the kids today, they're being bombarded from all sides by a non-stop flow of information. Most of it is junk, but it's still a distraction. Add in all the school and after school stuff, and I wonder when they actually have time to be kids anymore.

That said, I've got a couple of teens in my youth group who've started playing instruments recently. Sat with one - a big online gaming fan too - last night and gave him (yes I know, we've all had it) House of the Rising Sun as a simple exercise in picking, strumming and chord changes.

On the surface you'd think it's a song from a long-dead era, 30-odd years before he was born, which is true. But that didn't stop him from working at it and working hard. Hard enough that he didn't want to just pick individual notes and strum the chords, no he also wanted to know how to barre the F & not just play it open. And he can't wait to get through exams now to be able to play more often, using a Squire Standard Tele into a Fender practice amp.

Man it brought back memories, and it also made me think how easily we overlook the basics. Basics being the simple pleasure of sitting with ANY reasonable guitar, playing away and working at something new, and just being happy doing it. No worrying about effects pedals, pure amp tone or making the odd fluff while learning.
Shove it, I'm plugging in for 20 minutes on my lunchbreak today.

DaFiz wrote:
Learning to play electric guitar like a hero is just too much hard work for the modern kids who have too many distractions... My guitar heroes spent their entire childhood alone in a room with nothing but a guitar and a record collection and then interacted with friends who had similar interests... gone are those days

I don't it's as bad as you think. Just because some kids are using artificial means to make music doesn't mean the days are gone.

Recently I visited my brother in Basingstoke and we visited Andertons in Guildford (which is the home to ACM) and you can't believe the amount of young guys walking around with guitars, all with Rush, Hendrix, Gilmour T-shirts.

I visited Ballito last year and met a group of young musicians that think Michael Hedges is God!

Have a look at youtube where kids at school are doing Dream Theater, Diablo Swing Orchestra etc.etc etc

Maybe the medium has changed! Don't let radio/tv stations and the You magazine tell you what's in and what's out.

There is a huge amounts of good music out there!

Don't fall into the trap of thinking that the days are gone.....

You might think that the kids of today are listening to mindless useless crap, but when I was at school in the 70's, most kids had no idea what music was all about. I was in a very small group of music fans, so much so that most people thought we were weird.

Squonk wrote:


You might think that the kids of today are listening to mindless useless crap, but when I was at school in the 70's, most kids had no idea what music was all about. I was in a very small group of music fans, so much so that most people thought we were weird.

Yup. There's always been mindless crap, and I reckon there'll always be good stuff. You just have to look in the right places. Radio ain't one of them... And the internet makes it easier to find the good stuff. You just have to listen, and look, actively and not just take whatever gets presented to you.

Psean wrote: Yup. There's always been mindless crap, and I reckon there'll always be good stuff. You just have to look in the right places. Radio ain't one of them... And the internet makes it easier to find the good stuff. You just have to listen, and look, actively and not just take whatever gets presented to you.

when i lived in melbourne, not so long ago, they had a few awesome stations. one i remember in particular - triple j - played awesome tunes. i think everyone on that station would rather jump off their chairs than play a bieber song.

true story
dh|

domhatch wrote:

Psean wrote: Yup. There's always been mindless crap, and I reckon there'll always be good stuff. You just have to look in the right places. Radio ain't one of them... And the internet makes it easier to find the good stuff. You just have to listen, and look, actively and not just take whatever gets presented to you.

when i lived in melbourne, not so long ago, they had a few awesome stations. one i remember in particular - triple j - played awesome tunes. i think everyone on that station would rather jump off their chairs than play a bieber song.

true story
dh|

But it's not the norm. Should probably have said mainstream radio.

Badapple wrote: I feel guitars aren't totally lost in POP music.

If there is a guitar in a popular POP song it is usually tricked out with electronic effects beyond any belief.

I blame that Hendrix guy myself.

I don't listen to POP music as I feel it degrades music and the guitar.

"Popular" and "possessing musical virtue" are not mutually exclusive. See The Beatles and Motown for a start.

X-rated Bob wrote: "Popular" and "possessing musical virtue" are not mutually exclusive. See The Beatles and Motown for a start.

bob, i quite agree with that sentiment. however (and i detest howevering having just agreed with someone), my thoughts are that today's 'pop' music and what was popular in the days of invention, of what you could do to be popular as a music act - the beatles, the who, motown as a movement, etc - are poles apart.

yeah?

domhatch wrote:

X-rated Bob wrote: "Popular" and "possessing musical virtue" are not mutually exclusive. See The Beatles and Motown for a start.

bob, i quite agree with that sentiment. however (and i detest howevering having just agreed with someone), my thoughts are that today's 'pop' music and what was popular in the days of invention, of what you could do to be popular as a music act - the beatles, the who, motown as a movement, etc - are poles apart.

yeah?

Maybe. I don't listen to the radio much, so I don't know what the music stations are pushing as pop. I know that they were playing a track off the latest Laurie Levine album on highveld and that's quite acceptable to me - that's a pretty good album (so now the guys at Highveld can sleep).

I'm also old enough to remember that people in earlier generations than mine usually moaned and complained non stop about the pop music that the next generations listened to, so I'm wary of being too reactionary about things, of becoming just another old curmudgeon who thinks that it was better in his day because that was his day.

But in principle see no reason why contemporary pop can't have musical substance as well.

I'm also, I think, less allergic to hip-hop than the average GFSAer, so....

PS: A large amount of pop music back then was rubbish too. I used to watch Top of the Pops. You'd get the Beatles, sure, but you'd get Val Doonican as well. A generation later you'd get Queen, but also the Nolans.

X-rated Bob wrote: PS: A large amount of pop music back then was rubbish too. I used to watch Top of the Pops. You'd get the Beatles, sure, but you'd get Val Doonican as well. A generation later you'd get Queen, but also the Nolans.

and, lest we forget, donny and marie osmond...

X-rated Bob wrote: PS: A large amount of pop music back then was rubbish too. I used to watch Top of the Pops. You'd get the Beatles, sure, but you'd get Val Doonican as well. A generation later you'd get Queen, but also the Nolans.

But all of this don't make no never mind to me. I don't listen to music really in terms of "pop" or "not pop". I stumble across music in all sorts of ways. Some of it I like, some of it I don't, some of it I don't like but I can respect it.

Right now, for me, is a golden age for exploring music. The last few years my musical world has got hugely bigger and more varied (which is a good thing) and I see a vast galaxy of music to explore - old things that I can catch up on, lots of good new music still coming out, whole realms of music that I had been ignorant of (Malian guitar players!). It's just too marvellous, and I am anything but disheartened at the state of music and the music that is available to me.

X-rated Bob wrote:

X-rated Bob wrote: PS: A large amount of pop music back then was rubbish too. I used to watch Top of the Pops. You'd get the Beatles, sure, but you'd get Val Doonican as well. A generation later you'd get Queen, but also the Nolans.

But all of this don't make no never mind to me. I don't listen to music really in terms of "pop" or "not pop". I stumble across music in all sorts of ways. Some of it I like, some of it I don't, some of it I don't like but I can respect it.

Right now, for me, is a golden age for exploring music. The last few years my musical world has got hugely bigger and more varied (which is a good thing) and I see a vast galaxy of music to explore - old things that I can catch up on, lots of good new music still coming out, whole realms of music that I had been ignorant of (Malian guitar players!). It's just too marvellous, and I am anything but disheartened at the state of music and the music that is available to me.

+1
The internet has been a big one for me. It's crazy how much stuff I've been able to discover since getting broadband. Old and new. And whether I end up listening to it on Mp3, Cd, or vinyl, or at live shows, the internet has led to plenty of discoveries for me. Browsing through record bins is still fun and leads to cool discoveries, but the internet has sure sped them up. Either way I'm exploring constantly and finding music that's new to me, regardless of when it was released. I'm loving it ?

Spot-on, X-rated Bob.

I don't believe the problem is that music has suddenly degenerated due to technology changes. I believe the problem is that the world's gotten so choked up & hypercommercialised. We're drowning in information 24-7, and what's dominating is the fast-food type of entertainment / next sensation / YouTwitFace quick fix.

It simply makes it harder to find the good stuff than before 'cos you've got to sift through a lot of dirt to find the diamonds. Thanks to a plethora of training "how tos" there are also far more skilled musos than before. It also means that the likelihood of an individual #1 coming up with a whole new revolutionary sound / style, #2 getting noticed and #3 dominating the airwaves the way they did in the '50s - '70s is gone. Pop music is also a reflection of the times; right now the times are about crass consumerism, gossip and selfishness. The pseudo-care about popular left-liberal causes is just a sop to what's left of our group conscience. We can't complain if the lyrical content of pop music is largely vapid and juvenile if it's just reflecting the mass values of the society of its time. The money and the mass fan base are after the pop sensations, which are really pre-packaged and highly polished products. So don't expect a new Rolling Stones or Jimmy Hendrix in the near future, because they've been replaced by the Minajes/Mileys/Kanyes.

Perhaps it's another chicken vs egg scenario: did the companies create then demand, or are they responding to market trends? I'm no economical analyst.

Good music endures. Look at classical music for an example. Most non-classical musicians are unfamiliar with the bulk of it, but many non-musicians are somewhat familiar with the odd piece by Mozart or Beethoven, even if they don't know the name of the tune or who the composer was. Good music inspires: we're busy with a rock tribute show, and the younger drummer's just learned Mother (from The Wall) for the first time. As a fan of most heavier forms of metal, he first thought it sounded boring. Until he had to play 6/8 followed by 3/4 and into 2/4 within the same piece. Now he's growing as a musician and has a different view of a genre he once had no interest in. The same principle should be applied by older musos as well.

Good music is still out there. You could possibly say there's even better music out there than before. It just doesn't get to stand head and shoulders above the herd like it used to, but that in no way lessens its quality.

Banditman wrote: Spot-on, X-rated Bob.

I don't believe the problem is that music has suddenly degenerated due to technology changes. I believe the problem is that the world's gotten so choked up & hypercommercialised...Good music is still out there.

+1000, Absolutely. There are some incredible guitar bands/artist out there. ?