I first learned jazz from Hugo De Waal for 6 months,
Then from Johny Fourie for 3 years. (during which I had ensemble with Jonathan C)
and then a year with Jonathan C.

And then I needed to get away from studying. It's amazing how your music and
creativity can suck by the time you play a 4th year recital, only to play stuff 4 weeks later that
blows it all away. Your mind needs to clear.

Oh, I'm sceptical about that one thing someone said. Think it was Charlie Parker or Coltrane.
They said "you are always one semitone away from being 'inside' " or one semitone away from
playing a correct note in other words... sure you can resolve any note in jazz, but lets say you're
not yet that accomplished and you're playing the C major scale over a Cmaj chord... you plat the F note
which can sound really horrible(unless the chord is a sus), you then shift up to F# which most people
would find odd anyhow since it's the #11 of the chord, but the chord progression changes the chord to
Am... oh boy, then you would be hitting 2 avoid notes in a row... Ouch... bad luck. ?

Vic wrote:
One of my favs is in fact on the memorial "Concert for George" DVD done by a group of world-class musos (Clapton, McCartney et al ...with a full string and brass orchestra filling in.

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Awesome. What do you call that little guitar McCartney plays early on? I should get one just for kicks.

PeachyDragon wrote:

Oh, I'm sceptical about that one thing someone said. Think it was Charlie Parker or Coltrane.
They said "you are always one semitone away from being 'inside' " or one semitone away from
playing a correct note in other words... sure you can resolve any note in jazz, but lets say you're
not yet that accomplished and you're playing the C major scale over a Cmaj chord... you plat the F note
which can sound really horrible(unless the chord is a sus), you then shift up to F# which most people
would find odd anyhow since it's the #11 of the chord, but the chord progression changes the chord to
Am... oh boy, then you would be hitting 2 avoid notes in a row... Ouch... bad luck. ?

? no matter how "outside" you are and even if it's for 2 notes or a whole phrase, if questioned about it ....all you need do is keep the panic off your face.....and say you were simply "creating tension by going outside then you released that tension it by playing back in key" and then just stick to your story ...and yes i think you mentioned it .it's not about making mistakes or going out of key it's about being able to recover without it looking like a mistake , making the out notes look and sound like they belong
you gotta love jazz 8)

Vic wrote:
Another form of soloing is some small but vital bits of eg guitar during a performance of a song. Listen to the guitar bits of Knopfler during Brothers in Arms. These happen way before the actual solo in the song...and again it does not follow the melody to the tee but is beautifully blended into the song.


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Pretty awesome. Odd scratchy tone in places but he is a pro. ?
Anyone remember his song from the movie "The Princess Bride"?
If you haven't heard it, google it. And if you haven't seen the movie, see
that as well! Its a great fantasy story with cynical humour and a very good balance.
He wrote the whole sountrack. here's the video, but it doesnt do it justice. The instrumental version is better:

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Keira WitherKay wrote:

PeachyDragon wrote:

Oh, I'm sceptical about that one thing someone said. Think it was Charlie Parker or Coltrane.
They said "you are always one semitone away from being 'inside' " or one semitone away from
playing a correct note in other words... sure you can resolve any note in jazz, but lets say you're
not yet that accomplished and you're playing the C major scale over a Cmaj chord... you plat the F note
which can sound really horrible(unless the chord is a sus), you then shift up to F# which most people
would find odd anyhow since it's the #11 of the chord, but the chord progression changes the chord to
Am... oh boy, then you would be hitting 2 avoid notes in a row... Ouch... bad luck. ?

? no matter how "outside" you are and even if it's for 2 notes or a whole phrase, if questioned about it ....all you need do is keep the panic off your face.....and say you were simply "creating tension by going outside then you released that tension it by playing back in key" and then just stick to your story ...and yes i think you mentioned it .it's not about making mistakes or going out of key it's about being able to recover without it looking like a mistake , making the out notes look and sound like they belong
you gotta love jazz 8)

Yeah, I've often wished I could get away with those blunders in rock music.
70% of what the average person perceives during a music show is visual, so yeah. Straight face.
Playing the pentatonic scale a tri-tone away is always good for Sh*ts and Giggles.

What are your thoughts on techniques guitarists use to play outside in rock contexts? I mean the ones that sound
good. Paul Gilbert does it sometimes. I could never get the hang of it.

Please tell me I have simply overlooked the post where one of you fine gents mention Gary Moore? I mean melodic solo, transcending the instrument, blurring the lines between notes, frets and phrases, making the guitar sound like a voice - surely you must be talking about Gary Moore.

Exhibit 1:

deefstes wrote: Please tell me I have simply overlooked the post where one of you fine gents mention Gary Moore? I mean melodic solo, transcending the instrument, blurring the lines between notes, frets and phrases, making the guitar sound like a voice - surely you must be talking about Gary Moore.

Exhibit 1:

Yeah, someone mentioned him. ? ... Oh wait. :-S I must be delusional. Can't find it now.

i suppose that will make a 14 year kid very happy, but the day when that kid grows up reality is gonna hit him really hard, haha

Manfred Klose wrote: i suppose that will make a 14 year kid very happy, but the day when that kid grows up reality is gonna hit him really hard, haha

What are you referring to specifically?

PeachyDragon wrote:

Vic wrote:
Another form of soloing is some small but vital bits of eg guitar during a performance of a song. Listen to the guitar bits of Knopfler during Brothers in Arms. These happen way before the actual solo in the song...and again it does not follow the melody to the tee but is beautifully blended into the song.


=

Pretty awesome. Odd scratchy tone in places but he is a pro. ?
Anyone remember his song from the movie "The Princess Bride"?
If you haven't heard it, google it. And if you haven't seen the movie, see
that as well! Its a great fantasy story with cynical humour and a very good balance.
He wrote the whole sountrack. here's the video, but it doesnt do it justice. The instrumental version is better:

I will certainly check it out later...Knopfler, May and the likes are truly gifted players and composers...these people just keep on growing as time goes by, taking audiences with them.
One of the very first soundtracks Knopfler did was for the movie "Local Hero"..... 1983.....beautiful theme song....listen to that guitar at work...

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Wow, that is awesome. I like it most before the saxophone kicks in.
He truly has a great gift for composition. makes me want to check out his work some more.

PeachyDragon wrote: Wow, that is awesome. I like it most before the saxophone kicks in.
He truly has a great gift for composition. makes me want to check out his work some more.

Me too. But the general arrangement is also awesome...eg that Hammond moaning somewhere in the background....vital to the piece ?

Vic wrote: One of the very first soundtracks Knopfler did was for the movie "Local Hero"..... 1983.....beautiful theme song....listen to that guitar at work...

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Great stuff! While we're on the topic of 80's movie soundtracks by Knopfler, allow me to submit on of my favourites, much along the same vein. This is the soundtrack to the 1987 movie "The Princess Bride".
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It caught my attention then and to this day I still think it's a great song (and movie) :yup:

deefstes wrote:

Vic wrote: One of the very first soundtracks Knopfler did was for the movie "Local Hero"..... 1983.....beautiful theme song....listen to that guitar at work...

=

Great stuff! While we're on the topic of 80's movie soundtracks by Knopfler, allow me to submit on of my favourites, much along the same vein. This is the soundtrack to the 1987 movie "The Princess Bride".

It caught my attention then and to this day I still think it's a great song (and movie) :yup:

Beautiful Deefs ! I have forgotten this one....thanks for posting.

Mark is the Man... 8)

Pinch wrote: Wow Vic, forgot about the local hero theme. Thanks for reminding me. It is awesome composition.

My pleasure.

Here is Mark with Jimmy Nail...unmistakably Knopfler My apologies for overpopulating PeachyDragon's thread with Mark Knopfler...... ?

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Vic wrote: Here is Mark with Jimmy Nail...unmistakably Knopfler My apologies for overpopulating PeachyDragon's thread with Mark Knopfler...... ?

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Ja man, that' another great song. Vic, you seem to know the Knop very well, are there any of his albums that you can recommend for this kind of music? I like dire Straits but that is something totally different. I'd like to get myself some Knopfler stuff more like these last few songs that have been posted. Any recommendations?

Vic wrote:

Pinch wrote: Wow Vic, forgot about the local hero theme. Thanks for reminding me. It is awesome composition.

My pleasure.

Here is Mark with Jimmy Nail...unmistakably Knopfler My apologies for overpopulating PeachyDragon's thread with Mark Knopfler...... ?

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No problem Vic. As long as people can tolerate me constantly saying BLAH BLAH Brian May BLAH BLAH Queen BLAH BLAH (Insert some other stubborn view PeachyDragon has here) etc. ?

deefstes wrote: Please tell me I have simply overlooked the post where one of you fine gents mention Gary Moore? I mean melodic solo, transcending the instrument, blurring the lines between notes, frets and phrases, making the guitar sound like a voice - surely you must be talking about Gary Moore.

Exhibit 1:

I have a strange question to ask. Has anyone noticed that Gary Moore's solos, although amazing,
tend to have a more solid deliberate sortof sound. Like he has to consciously will every note into being (on the slow stuff)
While the Brian May/George Harrison stuff sortof floats over the top of the music casually?
My playing generally has the quality of the Gary Moore sound where the notes sound slightly more laboured.
Maybe it's the EQ. Brian M and George H Have more toppy sounds and Garry M has a more middy sound.

PeachyDragon wrote: I have a strange question to ask. Has anyone noticed that Gary Moore's solos, although amazing,
tend to have a more solid deliberate sortof sound. Like he has to consciously will every note into being (on the slow stuff)

Gary is a harder playing guitarist, he leans into most notes, even on the slower stuff. Plays with absolute conviction. May has a very light touch, more precise and lots of legato.

deefstes wrote:I'd like to get myself some Knopfler stuff more like these last few songs that have been posted. Any recommendations?

I think Knopfler is one of the truly great players and a wonderful songwriter and composer too (I have thirty-odd CDs of his, and most are great in their own right). Even as part of Dire Straits - you need to listen to complete albums (especially the tracks that weren't singles) to get a good sense of what his capabilities are (Love over Gold is one of my all time favourite albums). Most of his solo stuff has a more British folk feel and lots of Celtic (both Scot and Irish) influence, while his soundtracks are often more delicate and gentle. His albums with the Notting Hillbillies are well worth a listen and Neck and Neck with Chet Atkins is a classic. Solo albums of note: Golden Heart and The Ragpicker's Dream