NorioDS
Alan and I need your help. I'd like to invest some money in a professional designer to fix up our logo a bit but I want to keep the current "character" of the forum (the (IMO) cool font and, possibly, the return of the sexy GFSA girl ?) and Alan would rather it be more business-like, to inspire confidence in advertisers.
Now, it's my opinion that, if we have great content (we do) and the right members who will spend money on music-related things (we do) then it doesn't matter how business-like our logo is, we can show potential advertisers the hard-facts and even give them free trial runs to prove that we can deliver professional results, despite the fun-look of the forum.
On a personal level, I REALLY love the logo + deep-red + (now-deceased) GFSA girl. I think it gives this place character. I'd really prefer to keep the character and rather spend more effort on the marketing side to prove that, despite our awesome looks, we can be trusted with a music store's advertising budget ?
Seeing as we can't agree, we thought we'd open it up to you guys. Which would you prefer: more business-like logo or keep the current character?
DonovanB
Have you thought to survey the music stores themselves?
Your page views speak volumes as well as the quality of stats that you have. That is all with the current look. It seems to me that music stores are less interested in online media because the uneducated are not here.
It is far easier to sell to someone who can't google whether they are telling the truth or not. I am not insinuating music store staff are liars, but that the less someone knows about the topic, the more "influential" you can be when persuading to purchase.
IMO the whole MI retail environment in SA needs a re-think anyway
NorioDS
Can't disagree with you there, Don. I've noticed very little interest from music stores. It's led to me devising a strategy that basically does most of the marketing work for them. They just plug in their details and it (should) send them leads/sales.
As for surveying them - where would one get a list of all the music stores (that stock guitar-related stuff) in SA? I have a list already but maybe there's something more extensive out there.
guidothepimmp
Hey bud
There's a lot to be said for a unique identity.. I'm not sure i agree with a more business look myself.. music stores and instrument dealers are hardly interested in looks (imo).. but rather traffic. I think the logo works.. the gfsa goose was ok, but is this not perhaps the opportunity to get a long term logo that identifies the forum, perhaps a clever collage of guitars, or your gfsa gal pimping a fiddle or something..
Maybe to consider is a landing page of sorts with tabs that would direct you to the forum section, reviews, (Alan's reviews),
Not sure if this makes sense, but it would almost come across as more than a forum which might give advertisers something to get hot and bothered about.
Of course your logo andname would be emblazoned in all its glory on that page, with more succinct logos on thesub pages.. or visaversa
Dunno man, difficult to say. I do understand both sides though
NorioDS
Claudio - the stuff you described is my goal for the forum. There will be huge backlash though, so I've kept it hush for now ? Thanks for letting the cat out the bag ?
AlanRatcliffe
1. Leave the musical cartoon characters to Gorillaz. The site's about guitars, gear and music.
2. I have no problem with playful (think Google), but I do know bad typography when I see it and the current font is not good. Must be something clear, but unobtrusive.
NorioDS
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
1. Leave the musical cartoon characters to Gorillaz. The site's about guitars, gear and music.
But I like the cartoon characters! >☹ ?
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
2. I have no problem with playful (think Google), but I do know bad typography when I see it and the current font is not good. Must be something clear, but unobtrusive.
I'm not thinking playful so much as informal and more on the rocker side. Like Ibanez versus PRS. PRS is boring and business-y, Ibanez is rock and roll, baby! (Fender's logo is nice too)
studmissile
Norio wrote:
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
2. I have no problem with playful (think Google), but I do know bad typography when I see it and the current font is not good. Must be something clear, but unobtrusive.
I'm not thinking playful so much as informal and more on the rocker side. Like Ibanez versus PRS. PRS is boring and business-y, Ibanez is rock and roll, baby! (Fender's logo is nice too)
Neither corporate or fun, what you're looking for is "Classic", a logo or ident, that will stand the test of time and fads.
guidothepimmp
Norio wrote:
Claudio - the stuff you described is my goal for the forum. There will be huge backlash though, so I've kept it hush for now ? Thanks for letting the cat out the bag ?
?
Happy to oblige 8)
PeteM
Here's my 2c's worth.
There are no rules of course, but I believe that any branding exercise should follow the basics of marketing... and this is the kind of strategic planning I would do before briefing a designer.
The Principals need to firstly state and agree upon the primary objective of the exercise: E.g. "The primary objective of the logo, as well as the site itself, it is to appeal, in the main, to the existing and potential guitar-playing market in South Africa with the express purpose of enticing them to visit the website regularly. The swelling of membership and visits will offer ammunition to solicit potential advertisers."
The Principals also need to establish the desired personality of the Brand. E.g. Is it youthful, staid, vibrant, serious, fun etc.
In light of the above; the logo should appeal firstly to the primary target market but at the same time assuring advertisers that they are/will be advertising on a reputable site.
What I've laid out here might seem obvious to some, but in my experience, that unless the above are clearly established and agreed upon, a designer won't have any direction, and there will be serious amounts of subjective comments and disagreement when presented with designs.
Good luck.
PeteM
What also needs to be established is whether there is any value/equity in the existing branding or whether keeping anything is merely an exercise in holding on to nostalgia rather than moving forward.
NorioDS
PeteM wrote:
What also needs to be established is whether there is any value/equity in the existing branding or whether keeping anything is merely an exercise in holding on to nostalgia rather than moving forward.
So far agree with everything you've said and feel
this ^^^ is my issue with the change. I have an emotional reason to keep things as they are. If that emotion is not mirrored by my audience - you guys - I'll have to swallow my pride and move forward. This is what we're trying to figure out. What do YOU guys like.
Of course, this is VERY tough to do without some sample ideas for you guys to see the different directions Alan and I are wanting to go with the logo.
Hammeron
The reds are thin and shallow, fly them. and Alans right the font sucks.
DonRoos
+1 on what PeteM said. You need to know what you are trying to convey.
As for me, the font needs to be readable and bold. The current font is that but feels kind of 'old world'. There are many more modern fonts available.
But as a logo, a picture says more than a thousand words. All the really recogniseable logos have a pictorial element to them, either by the logo itself or by the way the text is structured. As a guitar forum I would think having the outline of the guitar or part should be strongly considered. I guess the strat/LP debate will rage long into the night about which shape is more iconic so perhaps a few different outlines could be incorporated.
Chocklit_Thunda
I can't believe we're having a debate about the font choice ??? Change it to Helvetica bold and let that be the end of it 8)
domhatch
i have to agree with everything pete said. you guys need to have a plan in place - an agreed plan - and that is what you would (loosely) refer to as your strategy. you need this to brief a designer. without a clear, agreed direction, you're going to be pulling your poor designer in completely opposing directions once he/she comes back with proposals (if he/she ever manages to get that far in the process).
another important thing pete said was determining the value of what's there first. not only to us, but to the world at large. your consumers are not only the folks on the site, but anyone who is likely to interact with the brand, for whatever reason. so you need to take a look at how people will interact, and for what reason, and incorporate those 'insights' into your plan. your primary consumers will be us. then you have advertisers, casual browsers (whom you will want to convert to users), etc.
and that's just the tip of the iceberg. the plan/strategy you can expect to take a while to thrash out. make sure you are 100% happy and agreed on it between the lot of you, before you take a single step. or you're going to take forever deciding on which design works. if any. or indeed whether a design change/update is necessary in the first place.
quacks, queue, first
dh|
chris77
If it looks professional and is easy to navigate it should be enough to keep all parties happy. It's pretty good as is to be honest, but a few tweaks here and there will refresh it a bit.
I get that advertisers are important to sustain the forum, but I'm not so sure that targeting music stores will be a viable option. As Donovan rightly pointed out, the general business model of stores in SA is currently based on favouring the informed and milking the rest, so the fewer informed customers there are the better for them. (Also not so sure that eg. Bothners will be happy to support a forum where every few months a thread pops up that blasts the pricing of Fender, or that Marshall will be too thrilled if they advertise some Gibbos on the site and the majority of posters go on about how great their Tokais are. ? ) It requires a level headed and mature approach from advertisers to accept that advertising on a site does not give you immunity from criticism on that site, and until I'm proven wrong I don't think the most of the big stores in SA are jacked up enough to handle online marketing properly. There are exceptions offcourse - Mr T, TI Distribution and TokaiSA are continously proving that it's possible, and by giving great service and interacting with their potential customers they are building their brands and gaining the edge in a tough market. But for the rest.... I wouldn't be putting my hopes on them, that's for sure.
Instead of waiting for advertisers to come to the Forum, it might be a better option to rather advertise a bit more from the forum's side. Nothing major, but some adds on Gumtree, bidorbuy, facebook etc. might just up the traffic enough to attract bigger avertisers and increase the forum's income stream, keeping it going as a viable entity without compromising it's values and standards.
And Norio, Alan - thanks for the effort you guys are putting in hey. There is no such thing as an easy transition when the old and trusted must make way for the new and unknown, but if it must be done it must be done. Sterkte!
NorioDS
chris77 wrote:
it might be a better option to rather advertise a bit more from the forum's side. Nothing major, but some adds on Gumtree, bidorbuy, facebook etc. might just up the traffic enough to attract bigger avertisers and increase the forum's income stream, keeping it going as a viable entity without compromising it's values and standards.
Definitely on the cards for the short-term future. The initial growth-spurt of the forum was in large-part due to a very successful Facebook ad campaign I'm thinking of reviving as well as an AdWords campaign. The others (BidOrBuy/GumTree) require a bit too much work to add listings (but still very viable in terms of targets for the AdWords campaign.
chris77 wrote:
And Norio, Alan - thanks for the effort you guys are putting in hey. There is no such thing as an easy transition when the old and trusted must make way for the new and unknown, but if it must be done it must be done. Sterkte!
Awwww shucks ?
CDee
You can also use something like www.logotournament.com. We used them for a company and the results were great. It starts off at $275 but you can sweeten the pot by increasing it.
It basically works like this.
- You register and input the details of the logo you want.
- Multiple designers work on the design and submit entries.
- You update the tournament by selecting the top entries.
- You can also comment on entries received.
- After a few days you select your top entries. Now they dual it out.
- You then end the competition by selecting the winning entry.
- You receive your files from the designer and he/she receives payment.
NorioDS
CDee wrote:
You can also use something like www.logotournament.com. We used them for a company and the results were great. It starts off at $275 but you can sweeten the pot by increasing it.
Was thinking of doing it via www.freelancer.com, actually ?
Once again, cat out the bag - you guys are good at pre-empting me! ?
