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I am currently looking at the pentatonic scales.
Now, I can start with Amaj and go through to G#maj and then go to the minor keys and so on. My question which is the most common Pentatonic scales beeing used? ???
This way I can concentrate on the 20% which I will use 80% of the time.
    I'm not sure I understand the question? You should be able to play any scale in any key, it's more vital that you understand the concept of diatonics cause once you do I think you'll understand how much easier this is.
      Yeah what CAB said. The important thing is not the actual notes, but the intervals between the notes.

      So i.e. for a Major scale you start on whichever note (say C) and the notes of that scale is made up by going up in the following pattern.

      Tone Tone Semi-tone Tone Tone Tone Semitone.

      That makes it

      C D E F G A B

      The pentatonics leave out some of the notes so for C the major pentatonic is

      C D E G A

      What all of this means, in short, is that you can learn what the scale pattern looks like and shift it around on your fretboard, for different keys. The pattern stays the same but the note you start on determines which scale it is.




        What Robbie means is what are the more popular keys that blues is played in. So he can focus a little more on say "A", and memorise the root notes in order to jump around to the different positions.
          Hi Robbie,

          I've recently started working with the pentatonic scales after twenty years plus of rhythm playing - cause I wanted to incorporate some basic lead solos.

          So from what I've learnt (here and elsewhere) is that CAB and EZ are correct. Its not about memorizing where every major pentatonic, eg, is on the fretboard. That's uneccessary. For basic lead you can go very far with just the major pentatonic, minor pentatonic and blues scale (minor pentatonic wityh two additional 'blue' notes). Each one of these have, however, five different positions (up the fretboard). Start with the first position of the major pentatonic in G. Then learn eg the first position of the minor pentatonic in say Amin (root on 5th fret). These then simply slide up or down in toto depending on what key you're playing in. Playing in A, you slide the G maj pentatonic up two frets (semi-tones). Playing in E min, you'll be on the 12th fret. To play in D min, you'll simply slide down two frets to the 10th, etc, etc.

          Then the next thing (for basic playing, of course) is simply to use the simple fact of knowing what is the relative minor in every key. In key of C, relative minor is Amin. So for a song in C, you can play C maj pentatonic or Am pentatonic. For a song in G you can play G maj pentatonic or E min pentatonic, etc.

          Then learn the other four positions (and how they relate to each other) and join them to go up and down the fretboard to avoid playing in little boxes.

          Finally, a great tip I got here on GFSA is to learn how to play, eg, the minor pentatonic on one-string, and two-strings. This allows you to go all over the fretboard doing one pentatonic without, once again, playing in compact boxes.

          I repeat, this is my applied, practical way of looking at it. If it underestimates your theory or experience, I apologise! But this was an useful way I followed to start - and the results are getting better and better.

          As to what is more popular, in blues it will be C#m pentatonic (for common blues in E), F#m pentatonic (for blues in A), etc. Even having read what Sean just posted, I can't help feeling this is a very impractical (and self-limiting) way of looking at it. Learn the intervals (ie the shapes and positions) and you can play in ANY key without much ado - whether its 'popular' or 'unpopular'.
            +1 on the shift it around concept. But in case you are still wondering: any key that has open strings in it will be easier to play for the dumbasses of the band (rhythm guitarist and bassist) so E, A and D are somewhat more likely to pop up.
              Arno did a 'tutorial' on this a while back, I only recently checked it out - well worth a watch.

              http://www.guitarforum.co.za/guitar-lessons/play-a-solo-in-any-song-and-in-any-key-with-this-trick/

              The way I was taught to solo was to parrot learn the box shapes on the neck (in my mind they are the roadmap to where the notes in that scale reside on the fretboard) - then create practical examples (licks) with each 'position' and move around the pattern/lick as the underlying chord sequence required (E.g depending on the key of the chords) .

              Not sure if I can explain it better, I'll try : If I've got a 12bar blues progression in the key of C (C = I, F = IV, G=V) I could play a blues scale based on the root note of each chord (E.g. C Blues) or to make it more interesting, a Minor pentatonic (In the case A). It started to make sense to me when I recorded the progression and then played the scales in differing keys over the progression.

                19 days later
                Riaan C wrote: Hi Robbie,

                I've recently started working with the pentatonic scales after twenty years plus of rhythm playing - cause I wanted to incorporate some basic lead solos.

                So from what I've learnt (here and elsewhere) is that CAB and EZ are correct. Its not about memorizing where every major pentatonic, eg, is on the fretboard. That's uneccessary. For basic lead you can go very far with just the major pentatonic, minor pentatonic and blues scale (minor pentatonic wityh two additional 'blue' notes). Each one of these have, however, five different positions (up the fretboard). Start with the first position of the major pentatonic in G. Then learn eg the first position of the minor pentatonic in say Amin (root on 5th fret). These then simply slide up or down in toto depending on what key you're playing in. Playing in A, you slide the G maj pentatonic up two frets (semi-tones). Playing in E min, you'll be on the 12th fret. To play in D min, you'll simply slide down two frets to the 10th, etc, etc.

                Then the next thing (for basic playing, of course) is simply to use the simple fact of knowing what is the relative minor in every key. In key of C, relative minor is Amin. So for a song in C, you can play C maj pentatonic or Am pentatonic. For a song in G you can play G maj pentatonic or E min pentatonic, etc.

                Then learn the other four positions (and how they relate to each other) and join them to go up and down the fretboard to avoid playing in little boxes.

                Finally, a great tip I got here on GFSA is to learn how to play, eg, the minor pentatonic on one-string, and two-strings. This allows you to go all over the fretboard doing one pentatonic without, once again, playing in compact boxes.

                I repeat, this is my applied, practical way of looking at it. If it underestimates your theory or experience, I apologise! But this was an useful way I followed to start - and the results are getting better and better.

                As to what is more popular, in blues it will be C#m pentatonic (for common blues in E), F#m pentatonic (for blues in A), etc. Even having read what Sean just posted, I can't help feeling this is a very impractical (and self-limiting) way of looking at it. Learn the intervals (ie the shapes and positions) and you can play in ANY key without much ado - whether its 'popular' or 'unpopular'.
                Thank you for this brilliant post Riaan C.

                I am going to try your suggestions.
                  RJN wrote:
                  Riaan C wrote: Hi Robbie,

                  I've recently started working with the pentatonic scales after twenty years plus of rhythm playing - cause I wanted to incorporate some basic lead solos.

                  So from what I've learnt (here and elsewhere) is that CAB and EZ are correct. Its not about memorizing where every major pentatonic, eg, is on the fretboard. That's uneccessary. For basic lead you can go very far with just the major pentatonic, minor pentatonic and blues scale (minor pentatonic wityh two additional 'blue' notes). Each one of these have, however, five different positions (up the fretboard). Start with the first position of the major pentatonic in G. Then learn eg the first position of the minor pentatonic in say Amin (root on 5th fret). These then simply slide up or down in toto depending on what key you're playing in. Playing in A, you slide the G maj pentatonic up two frets (semi-tones). Playing in E min, you'll be on the 12th fret. To play in D min, you'll simply slide down two frets to the 10th, etc, etc.

                  Then the next thing (for basic playing, of course) is simply to use the simple fact of knowing what is the relative minor in every key. In key of C, relative minor is Amin. So for a song in C, you can play C maj pentatonic or Am pentatonic. For a song in G you can play G maj pentatonic or E min pentatonic, etc.

                  Then learn the other four positions (and how they relate to each other) and join them to go up and down the fretboard to avoid playing in little boxes.

                  Finally, a great tip I got here on GFSA is to learn how to play, eg, the minor pentatonic on one-string, and two-strings. This allows you to go all over the fretboard doing one pentatonic without, once again, playing in compact boxes.

                  I repeat, this is my applied, practical way of looking at it. If it underestimates your theory or experience, I apologise! But this was an useful way I followed to start - and the results are getting better and better.

                  As to what is more popular, in blues it will be C#m pentatonic (for common blues in E), F#m pentatonic (for blues in A), etc. Even having read what Sean just posted, I can't help feeling this is a very impractical (and self-limiting) way of looking at it. Learn the intervals (ie the shapes and positions) and you can play in ANY key without much ado - whether its 'popular' or 'unpopular'.
                  Thank you for this brilliant post Riaan C.

                  I am going to try your suggestions.
                  t
                  You are very welcome. ? As I said, it's just a practical way of getting to a point relatively quickly where you can play basic solos in any key. Something like "applied maths" vs "algebra"! In the long run, it is still my ambition to master all the scales and theory beyond the diatonic basics. But delving deeper into pentatonic lessons, I can maybe recommend right now that the next major task for me is to memorise where the root notes are on every string. Delving deeper into pentatonic lessons, its clear that an useful mecahism for breaking out of those boxes (ie linking up scale boxes across the length of the fretboard) is to start different major or minor pentatonic scale runs at different places. Remember, a pentatonic scale is simply five notes always connected with the same interval jumps. So your obvious Amin pentatonic has the root note on the 5th fret of the low E-string, but you can also play that scale from any other place where you find an A-note.

                  But in the beginning, just join up some major and minor pentatonics and positions. If you're jamming Knocking on Heaven's Door in G, eg, the 1st position of the Gmaj pentatonic (root note - G - is 3rd fret of high E string) is also the last note of the first position of the Emin pentatonic scale if played over the first three frets of all the strings - remember the open E strings taking the root). So they sit next to each other, but instead of looking like you're in one box you'll play notes spread over the first five frets. A great little run to then throw in is the first 5th and 7th frets of the top three strings (EAD) - which is the start of the 2nd position of the Gmaj scale. So suddenly you've moved over seven frets (and not the maximum four of any individual pentatonic box). Now you want to add the higher sounding notes, so you jump to the 12th fret and use your Emin pentatonic 1st position (between the 12th and the 15th frets) and you've now solo'ed notes right across. Just have a look below how these interact, and you'll see the potential road map.









                  BTW, the diagrams are from this site, which I found easiest for quick reference:
                  http://www.guitar-chords.org.uk/guitarscales/guitarscales.html

                  Lastly, the guy who really explains the basics in a way that I can both understand and do is Marty Scwhartz from GuitarJam.com. His Youtube lessons helped me immensely. Here's one, you'll find links there to the rest:

                  =

                  =

                  Super tip: Marty teaches what he calls the major pentatonic extension, which is a fail safe shape that adds a few frets to the box. When I'm on stage and feeling nervous and just need a quick longer run without thinking too much I'll throw this in. And it demonstrates the concept of root notes so well - cause it starts on the SECOND STRING using the root note of the key you're playing in. So, the shape starts - for a song in the key of D - on the 5th fret of the A-string (the root note, D, of course). Easy to remember and works really well in most basic songs:

                  =









                    Thanks Riaan, this is incredibly good stuff

                    Thanked
                      ez wrote: Yeah what CAB said. The important thing is not the actual notes, but the intervals between the notes.

                      So i.e. for a Major scale you start on whichever note (say C) and the notes of that scale is made up by going up in the following pattern.

                      Tone Tone Semi-tone Tone Tone Tone Semitone.

                      That makes it

                      C D E F G A B

                      The pentatonics leave out some of the notes so for C the major pentatonic is

                      C D E G A

                      What all of this means, in short, is that you can learn what the scale pattern looks like and shift it around on your fretboard, for different keys. The pattern stays the same but the note you start on determines which scale it is.
                      Guys im somewhat confused by the MAJOR and Minor Pentatonic. ( Please excuse my lack of basic understanding )

                      so when , lets say we play a song ( again , plz excuse my lack of knowledge ) Gmaj, Dmaj and Amaj, can you play both the Major and Minor Pentatonics just as long as you start on the Neutral note or a note relative to it ?
                        RJN wrote: Guys im somewhat confused by the MAJOR and Minor Pentatonic. ( Please excuse my lack of basic understanding )

                        so when , lets say we play a song ( again , plz excuse my lack of knowledge ) Gmaj, Dmaj and Amaj, can you play both the Major and Minor Pentatonics just as long as you start on the Neutral note or a note relative to it ?
                        Let me see if I can explain. I'm going to transpose your example of (Gmaj, Dmaj and Amaj) to C just to make reading the answer easier, but I'll transpose it back afterwards just to be complete.

                        Your three chords form the basis of a song in D major. You've listed them in a different order but a more logical order would be to list them in the order I, IV, V, or put differently Tonic, Subdominant, Dominant, or put differently Dmaj, Gmaj, Amaj. Now, let's transpose that to the key of C (as opposed to D) so we can get rid of "black" notes.

                        I = Tonic = Cmaj
                        IV = Subdominant = Fmaj
                        V = Dominant = Gmaj

                        I'm gonna stop using these maj suffixes now so when I say C, I mean Cmaj (and when I say Am I mean A minor).

                        You'll recall that Am is the relevant minor of C (I hope you do?). When you look at them they are virtualy exactly the same. Look at the scale of C:
                        C, D, E, F, G, A, B <- These are notes, not chords
                        Now, look at the scale of Am:
                        A, B, C, D, E, F, G

                        Can you see that the two are exactly the same with the only difference being that one starts on the note C while the other one starts on the note A? It's the intervals (distances) between the notes that make one sound like a major and the other sound like a minor.

                        The scales above are major diatonic and minor diatonic scales but the exact same relationship exists between major pentatonic scales and minor pentatonic scales. In other words, A minor pentatonic is pretty much the same thing as C major pentatonic, they just start on different notes.

                        Now your question was "when we play a song can you play both the Major and Minor Pentatonics just as long as you start on the Neutral note or a note relative to it?"

                        The question is phrased oddly because you're not saying which Major and Minor penatonic scales you're wanting to play. But, bearing the above in mind, yes, if your song is in the key of C you can play the C major pentatonic over it or the A minor pentatonic.

                        Having said that, there is something very neat about the pentatonic scales. You would end up with a rather unpleasant gemors if you played the C minor diatonic scale over C major but you can actually play a C minor pentatonic scale over C major. This is when you get the Blues. It's one of the core concepts in the Blues. Go try it, play a chord progression of C, F and G and then noodle over it with a C minor pentatonic scale and you'll feel the Blues immediately. When you noodle over it with a A minor pentatonic you'll notice that bluesy tension is gone and it sounds more like an ordinary Rock or Pop solo.

                        Now, just to transpose back to your original key. If you play a chord progression using D, G and A, you can play a D major pentatonic over it (or F# minor penatonic) for the "tension free" feel or you can play a D minor pentatonic over it for the bluesy feel.

                        I hope that helps. There are different ways to explain this and I'm sure other musos would use a different approach, like explaining the relationships between majors and minors with intervals. Lemme know if this doesn't make sense and you'd like a better exaplanation ?
                          deefstes wrote:
                          RJN wrote: Guys im somewhat confused by the MAJOR and Minor Pentatonic. ( Please excuse my lack of basic understanding )

                          so when , lets say we play a song ( again , plz excuse my lack of knowledge ) Gmaj, Dmaj and Amaj, can you play both the Major and Minor Pentatonics just as long as you start on the Neutral note or a note relative to it ?
                          Let me see if I can explain. I'm going to transpose your example of (Gmaj, Dmaj and Amaj) to C just to make reading the answer easier, but I'll transpose it back afterwards just to be complete.

                          Your three chords form the basis of a song in D major. You've listed them in a different order but a more logical order would be to list them in the order I, IV, V, or put differently Tonic, Subdominant, Dominant, or put differently Dmaj, Gmaj, Amaj. Now, let's transpose that to the key of C (as opposed to D) so we can get rid of "black" notes.

                          I = Tonic = Cmaj
                          IV = Subdominant = Fmaj
                          V = Dominant = Gmaj

                          I'm gonna stop using these maj suffixes now so when I say C, I mean Cmaj (and when I say Am I mean A minor).

                          You'll recall that Am is the relevant minor of C (I hope you do?). When you look at them they are virtualy exactly the same. Look at the scale of C:
                          C, D, E, F, G, A, B <- These are notes, not chords
                          Now, look at the scale of Am:
                          A, B, C, D, E, F, G

                          Can you see that the two are exactly the same with the only difference being that one starts on the note C while the other one starts on the note A? It's the intervals (distances) between the notes that make one sound like a major and the other sound like a minor.

                          The scales above are major diatonic and minor diatonic scales but the exact same relationship exists between major pentatonic scales and minor pentatonic scales. In other words, A minor pentatonic is pretty much the same thing as C major pentatonic, they just start on different notes.

                          Now your question was "when we play a song can you play both the Major and Minor Pentatonics just as long as you start on the Neutral note or a note relative to it?"

                          The question is phrased oddly because you're not saying which Major and Minor penatonic scales you're wanting to play. But, bearing the above in mind, yes, if your song is in the key of C you can play the C major pentatonic over it or the A minor pentatonic.

                          Having said that, there is something very neat about the pentatonic scales. You would end up with a rather unpleasant gemors if you played the C minor diatonic scale over C major but you can actually play a C minor pentatonic scale over C major. This is when you get the Blues. It's one of the core concepts in the Blues. Go try it, play a chord progression of C, F and G and then noodle over it with a C minor pentatonic scale and you'll feel the Blues immediately. When you noodle over it with a A minor pentatonic you'll notice that bluesy tension is gone and it sounds more like an ordinary Rock or Pop solo.

                          Now, just to transpose back to your original key. If you play a chord progression using D, G and A, you can play a D major pentatonic over it (or F# minor penatonic) for the "tension free" feel or you can play a D minor pentatonic over it for the bluesy feel.

                          I hope that helps. There are different ways to explain this and I'm sure other musos would use a different approach, like explaining the relationships between majors and minors with intervals. Lemme know if this doesn't make sense and you'd like a better exaplanation ?
                          Thank you Deefstes ! this definitely clears up smoke for me .

                          I think what i need to do is start reading on the Minor scale to try and understand its "construction" and then look at it from a practical angle.

                          Guys if there's a book or video's that can assist me with my journey i would greatly appreciate it if you can share with me.

                          The problem is that i dont want to spend too much time on intense theory BUT, i DO want a firm grounding of what im playing and to improve in the solo department.

                            3 months later
                            The easy answer: Knowing what key you are in helps a lot. This way you won't be playing jazz *cough*. In terms of D,G and A - your key is D - using the Dmaj pentatonic is going to sound very vanilla. You have to use your ears to determine what you are going to use and why... pls refer to "the other answer". You don't want to start out by changing scales over every chord. It is a lot of work and fruitless to a beginner because they haven't learned to use their ears yet.

                            The other answer: Dmaj pentatonic uses => D - E - F# - A - B

                            D - Root/home
                            E - maj 2nd/9th
                            F#- maj 3rd
                            A - 5th
                            B - maj 6th

                            Three of these notes outlines your Dmaj triad - D, F#, A - which leaves two flavouring notes, the maj 9th and the maj 6th. Neither of these has to resolve anywhere but if they did - the 9th could go either to the root or the 3rd... the 6th can go either to the 5th or a standard leap to the root. That would just be the neighbouring note in this scale.

                            But how would the other chords sound against the Dmaj pentatonic? Lets see:

                            Gmaj notes: G - B - D (bold notes are found in the scale)
                            Dmaj pent: D - E - F# - A - B

                            These other three notes flavour it like:
                            E - maj 6
                            F# - maj 7
                            A - maj 9
                            (in addition to your G triad, these three notes, when used together, would give you a 13th voicing. Jazzy as poo. Used seperately they will flavour it nicely.

                            Amaj triad: A - C# - E
                            Dmaj pent: D - E - F# - A - B

                            Two notes shared again, the other flavour it like:

                            D - 4th/maj11
                            F#- maj6th
                            B - maj 9

                            Except for the 11th, notice the trend? That 6th and 9th combination makes for super duper happiness and unicorns. So if you are writing a happy song, this will just about do it. Beware of playing "my girl" - if you do play "my girl", then you are just using said scale straight up and that is not how you write a solo. If you are writing a suicide song - your chords are too happy and the scale will not work. Apply razor blades before the song finishes or perhaps even starts.

                            BTW - this is not intense theory - its basic. To understand how any scale is constructed is not intense - its a frikkin formula. A small one. Laziness in music eventually shows. Just saying...

                            Minor scale goodness: adds many tension notes easily resolved within. In the case of using Dm pentatonic against these chords, map it out like above and find an awesome discovery

                            *edit* To clarify - learn how the notes in a said scale affect all your chords. Do not trust a book with this, do it yourself. The reward is much greater than taking some author's wordy list and trying to memorise it. Your ears will be your salvation - along with your dedication to working out the answers to that elusive question - "Why?"
                              evolucian wrote: *edit* To clarify - learn how the notes in a said scale affect all your chords. Do not trust a book with this, do it yourself. The reward is much greater than taking some author's wordy list and trying to memorise it. Your ears will be your salvation - along with your dedication to working out the answers to that elusive question - "Why?"
                              Nice one Evo - thanked!

                              I especially like the basic framework you've laid out with terminology I think in (flavouring).

                              Good to know you've not been completely lost to the land of Pro Poker ?
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