Music Synth

epictring

So I know quite a few band that use synth (also known as "programming") in they're music. I'm personally a bit against electronic music, but in the International Rock to Metal scene some bands use a little bit here and there and the effect can be really awesome when used at the right moment.

I want to start incorporating this into my band, but I have no idea on where to start or how any of it works.
Can someone explain this and how I can get into starting out with it?

Thanks.

FruitarGeek

Most music this day has some type of synth in it. If you listen to Coldplays X & Y album, almost EVERY song has synth on it. Its amazing, it fulls up the song so much, without being obtrusive.

To get started with synth, there are few ways. You can either:

1) Buy a synthesizer, or a keyboard that has some synth presets and play it live (I prefer this)
2) Normal keyboard with midi outputs that can go to laptop with synth presets
3) Program synth parts, and trigger them when necessary (like a backtrack) - The problem about this way, is that it requires a whole production, and your drummer will have to play in time with a metronome

These are the only ways I can think of

epictring

Thanks!

What synthesizers are of good quality that I can have a look at?

Also, how do you program or create the sounds with them? How do they work?

AlanRatcliffe

If you want synth sounds in your music, it's simple - get a keyboard player. "How they work" is a huge topic and there are a variety of synthesis methods, each completely different: additive; subtractive; sample-based; modelling; granular; waveguide; wavetable, formant; concatenative, frequency modulation, linear arithmetic, etc... that's just off the top of my head. Generally it's easier to say "you push the black and white keys and cool sounds come out". ?

I like the Roland synths mostly, but Nord make some kickass models too.

Another way to add synth sounds to your band is to invest in a guitar synthesizer (Roland GR-55, etc.), but they are a bit limited and very demanding of the guitar player.

FruitarGeek

epictring wrote: Thanks!

What synthesizers are of good quality that I can have a look at?

Also, how do you program or create the sounds with them? How do they work?

+1 to everything Alan said.

If you buy a decent synthesizer, such as Roland or Nord, there are knobs and buttons you can press and dial to make your own bunch of unique sounds. Or, if you go the laptop route, you buy a good synth plugin (there are thousands) and you can choose one of their many made factory sounds or make your own (if they allow for that).

Making synth sounds is not hard, Its the same thing you would do with a pedal board, just sit down with it, and figure out some sounds you like

epictring

Cool..

So I'm seriously going to learn it myself now ?

I've got a piano which I've started learning and I'm really interested, I went onto the Roland site and they've got a whole range of keyboard synth here:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productlist.php?ParentId=83

Which one would be suitable for me? I'd definitely also not want to buy a new one over the next year - so whatever I pick needs to keep me happy for a while.

I'm clueless with these, please help!

Thanks!

AlanRatcliffe

As a starter keyboard with no specific direction in mind, I'd probably say look at the Roland E-09 (or any of the older E-series boards) - a wide range of good sampled sounds and relatively inexpensive: http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=828&ParentId=18 . The other option would be the Juno-Stage, which is a few steps up and still very flexible. The other "Workstations" like the Fantoms are monsters of capability and flexibility and the analog synths are a bit specific in their soundsets (being more true synths).

If you want to go the classical learning route, you might want to look out for an FP (portable piano) or RD series stage piano, with their full range hammer action keyboards and fewer, but higher quality sounds.

epictring

Cool, thanks Alan.

I've also been looking at the Roland GAIA SH-01
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=1074&ParentId=83

but having looked at a few vids my first impression is that it's not necessarily going to work with a rock outfit?
Having a keyboard that will be able to do things like choir-voice sounds would also be quite awesome.

DonovanB

+1 on a keys player.

Do what you do best, outsource the rest....

free2rhyme

I started out with a microKORG synth cause I saw a lot of bands like Asking Alexandra to the Jonas brothers used them, even Underoath used one when they were here. Its a great starting point for a synth but i sold it here on the forums a while back as we went the programmed route.

My band use synth live now, its all preprogrammed and triggers with click.
No point in having an extra member if they can be replaced by a laptop ?

the setup and start point was time consuming but now it works great(touch wood)

epictring

free2rhyme wrote: I started out with a microKORG synth cause I saw a lot of bands like Asking Alexandra to the Jonas brothers used them, even Underoath used one when they were here. Its a great starting point for a synth but i sold it here on the forums a while back as we went the programmed route.

My band use synth live now, its all preprogrammed and triggers with click.
No point in having an extra member if they can be replaced by a laptop ?

the setup and start point was time consuming but now it works great(touch wood)

Cool, I'll look into that Korg.

No point in having an extra member if they can be replaced by a laptop ?

Or by an existing member ?

Malkav

Adrian Rogowski wrote: 3) Program synth parts, and trigger them when necessary (like a backtrack) - The problem about this way, is that it requires a whole production, and your drummer will have to play in time with a metronome

My band went this route, I honestly think it's the best possible option for many reasons that I'll get into below, but firstly because now everything in the set is tempo synched (delays and modulations). Getting your drummer to play with a metronome live is generally a good thing and I'd highly recommend it for consistency,

Donovan Banks wrote: +1 on a keys player.

-1 on a keys player, seriously finding a keyboard player who's decent and has decent equipment and will be dedicated in S.A is basically impossible. Laptops don't complain, show up late, or take any of the hard earned beer money at the end of a gig ?

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: As a starter keyboard with no specific direction in mind, I'd probably say look at the Roland E-09 (or any of the older E-series boards) - a wide range of good sampled sounds and relatively inexpensive: http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.php?ProductId=828&ParentId=18 . The other option would be the Juno-Stage, which is a few steps up and still very flexible.

I worked with someone who had a Juno-Stage, great keyboards/synths. The E09 however has really basic and mainly horrible sounding 80's synths, really not worth it, and those keyboards are actually great value for money (R6k) it's just that good synths tend to be expensive, you could use an E09 as a midi controller but then why not go for a dedicated midi controller for cheaper and get a laptop with VSTs?

Which leads us yet again to just get a laptop and program everything in, if you do this and then freeze the audio you won't even need to use much in terms of resources on the laptop which allows even more complex and awesome synths ?

Adrian Rogowski wrote: make your own (if they allow for that).

I have so far not encountered a synth VST that doesn't allow you to tweak their parameters ?

DonovanB

Chad Adam Browne wrote:
-1 on a keys player, seriously finding a keyboard player who's decent and has decent equipment and will be dedicated in S.A is basically impossible. Laptops don't complain, show up late, or take any of the hard earned beer money at the end of a gig ?

Ah, wait till it breaks, won't start, gets a virus (it is part of a band y'know. Groupies and all that) or has some lag mid song.

Finding muso's is always tough to do. I've decided never to form a band again, too many politics. Just keep it as one guy, then the rest can be chopped and changed as the money flows.

Malkav

Donovan Banks wrote: gets a virus (it is part of a band y'know. Groupies and all that)

:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:

Still I'd rather go the sample route, modern laptops can be quite powerful and reliable and our band has one that is dedicated to just running Cubase - Nothing else is installed on it but Cubase and it's VSTs and Windows ?

Also I'm of the opinion that with the Laptop route you have more flexibility, we can run multiple synth lines and synths and have them pan and jump around in the stereo spectrum live which can yield interesting results ?

Oh and if you buy a laptop & Midi Controller & Omnisphere (which is a god like synth program that abolutely rapes) it's still less than half the price of a Roland Fantom, Korg Oasys or Yamaha Motif and IMO better sounding.

epictring

The laptop route sounds good and all..
But I've got one problem with it, it's a machine.

I don't want to replace people with machines, it just takes away the "musicality" (can't get the right word) of it. It's just a personal thing though, like I said I'm seriously getting into keys now and since I'm still so young and will hopefully still be playing for either this band or another in a few years. I want to learn it and get going with keyboard synth, you just said there is almost null keyboardists in SA that's dependable, good and has good equipment and all that - so why not pursue being one of the few?

Donovan Banks wrote:
Chad Adam Browne wrote:
-1 on a keys player, seriously finding a keyboard player who's decent and has decent equipment and will be dedicated in S.A is basically impossible. Laptops don't complain, show up late, or take any of the hard earned beer money at the end of a gig ?

Ah, wait till it breaks, won't start, gets a virus (it is part of a band y'know. Groupies and all that) or has some lag mid song.

Finding muso's is always tough to do. I've decided never to form a band again, too many politics. Just keep it as one guy, then the rest can be chopped and changed as the money flows.

There's nothing I hate more than politics ☹

DonovanB

I've used the Roland GR20 as a midi trigger into reason before. I split the guitar signal and used the laptop as a module. It worked well, but my playing suffered because I wasn't as free as I could have been.

We ended up going for pad type effects with slicers for fun, or only synth/guitar.

Malkav

epictring wrote: I don't want to replace people with machines, it just takes away the "musicality" (can't get the right word) of it. It's just a personal thing though,

I can see where you're coming from but at the same time it doesn't do anything you don't program it to do, the musicality isn't compromised because it doesn't write it's own material ?

We're lucky as a band though, our drummer is actually a graded pianist, and possibly a better keyboard player than our last keyboardist, if it weren't for the fact that he's a better drummer than keyboard player we would have been tempted to make him switch positions. Many of our synth parts are played in to get a more human feel when needed and programmed in places where we want the rigidity of a machine ?

I just feel that there are many synth effects that you cannot get on a keyboard that you can get with actual synth programs and in addition to that you can use samples and make your own etc. There's just less limitation to using pre programmed synths and samples.

You can also do crazy weird glitch percussion things that I quite like that you could absolutely never get right with a normal synth/keyboard and you can use low oscilating samples to beef up sub drops and things in the right moments of tracks ?

In returning to the musicality thing, I used to pretty much hate electronic music owing to what's popular and dubstep and the monotony therein, but I have realised that there are lots of really good electronic artists out there that make some incredibly interesting music, I'd recommend checking out glitch stuff mainly like Trifonic, Telefon Tel Aviv and Xploding plastiX ?

=

This still blows my mind everytime I listen to it ?

TomCat

If you are looking for an actual keyboard give the Roland Juno series a serious look. Great sounds, powerful editing and well priced.

If you only want to use for recording have a look at the u-he Zebra-2 Plugin...very powerful and great sounding.....also comes with great presets.
http://www.u-he.com/cms/zebra

epictring

The Juno series is a bit over my budget, and it also seems to be discontinued - I'd prefer to buy new.

Is there anyone who has any knowledge of the Roland GAIA? It also seems portable which is a plus

http://www.youtube.com/embed/JtOn3DhhvJE?rel=0

epictring

Ok I wanna look through all my options.

Chad Adam Browne wrote:
epictring wrote: I don't want to replace people with machines, it just takes away the "musicality" (can't get the right word) of it. It's just a personal thing though,
I can see where you're coming from but at the same time it doesn't do anything you don't program it to do, the musicality isn't compromised because it doesn't write it's own material ?

We're lucky as a band though, our drummer is actually a graded pianist, and possibly a better keyboard player than our last keyboardist, if it weren't for the fact that he's a better drummer than keyboard player we would have been tempted to make him switch positions. Many of our synth parts are played in to get a more human feel when needed and programmed in places where we want the rigidity of a machine ?

I just feel that there are many synth effects that you cannot get on a keyboard that you can get with actual synth programs and in addition to that you can use samples and make your own etc. There's just less limitation to using pre programmed synths and samples.

You can also do crazy weird glitch percussion things that I quite like that you could absolutely never get right with a normal synth/keyboard and you can use low oscilating samples to beef up sub drops and things in the right moments of tracks ?

In returning to the musicality thing, I used to pretty much hate electronic music owing to what's popular and dubstep and the monotony therein, but I have realised that there are lots of really good electronic artists out there that make some incredibly interesting music, I'd recommend checking out glitch stuff mainly like Trifonic, Telefon Tel Aviv and Xploding plastiX ?

=

This still blows my mind everytime I listen to it ?

The other "Laptop Method" you talked about, how can I have a look at it? Where do I get started?