Audio Interface - Help me decide - GuitarTalk Community

Audio Interface - Help me decide

FatBoy

Ok so I have been working overtime like a madman the last month and a bit, so I should have some extra cash at the end of the month.

Next things on my list is an audio interface of some sort. I want to record acoustic+electric guitar, vocals and maybe some extra percussion noises (bongos / hitting a G# frying pan with a tune fork).

I don't have a great soundcard in the PC, so I thought the USB ones would be better. Is this OK? I am not trying to make studio quality recordings here, just playing around mostly. However if these boxes are going to give me incredibly crap sound please let me know.

I am currently looking at the following options

EMU Tracker USB2.0
http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?product=17511

EMU 0202 USB2.0
http://www.emu.com/products/product.asp?category=610&subcategory=611&product=15186

I may get a MIDI keyboard in future so maybe I should look at one with MIDI capabilities?
Novation NIO 2|4
http://www.novationmusic.com/products/audio_interfaces/nio_24/

Behringer B-CONTROL AUDIO BCA2000 USB 2.0
http://www.behringer.com/BCA2000/?lang=ENG (discontinued in the US & Canada but I may be able to get it locally)

Edirol UA-4FX USB
(link seems to be dead)

Any other options I should consider?

My budget is +- 2K

CornFlakes

It took me a while to choose a audio interface/soundcard. Here is a few websites you can look at.
www.edirol.com
www.line6.com
www.native-instruments.com

Manfred-Klose

Try M-audio, their stuff is good and afordable.

Riaan

We're in the same boat, I'll be following this thread closely. It appears that the number of I/O's is an issue, as is the quality of pre-amps, routing possibilities and sample rate - the better and more versatile the interface, the more expensive. It seems that the minimum I/O's would be at least two.

I guess one will have to know beforehand exactly what you want to do, which is my problem... I find it difficult to make up my mind as to how many I/O's one will really need, because there's always the possibility that in a year or two's time, you'll be doing more complex things or recording more people and then you have to upgrade again. I could see myself experimenting with all sorts of things, such as simultaneous recording of a guitar onto several tracks - DI, and with more than one mike in different positions, an effect or two on some and combining the whole lot to one track afterwards...

But then again a more versatile (i.e. complex) interface might be too difficult to master for someone new to this?

From what I've read, my current favourites are RME Fireface, Presonus Firestudio and MOTU. All rather expensive, unfortunately - more in the $600+ range.

Hope the more experienced guys on the forum can help us here.

CornFlakes

Look at Edirol's Products they are realy well priced. I got the Edirol UA4FX and it realy works for me..

Here is the link check it out:
http://www.rolandus.com/products/productdetails.aspx?ObjectId=758&ParentId=114

AlanRatcliffe

+1 on M-Audio
+1 on Edirol

Both make good products, both have good, solid drivers. Specific models I can't help with at the moment - I haven't looked in a while. I have an Edirol for my Laptop and two ESI cards for my other machines. ESI are good for the money, but the drivers aren't as good.

Renesongs

+1 M-Audio I use Maya 44 from Audiotrack who are now M-Audio 4 in 4 out 1.5ms using WDM driver less if you use ASIO Cost R1.5K ?

AlanRatcliffe

Renesongs wrote: I use Maya 44 from Audiotrack who are now M-Audio

You mean ESI don't you? Pretty good interfaces those.

Renesongs

ESI of course - that what happens when I multi-task. Multitask-defination: To fcuk many things at the same time.

FatBoy

I see that Maya 44 has a balanced mic input with phantom power. I don't know what the balanced bit means, but can I plug in a nice condenser mic at some stage? Don't those need the bigger 3 pin plug things?

Renesongs

Balanced means it is stereo, 2 channels left and right.

Mr-M

Fritz Brand wrote: I see that Maya 44 has a balanced mic input with phantom power. I don't know what the balanced bit means, but can I plug in a nice condenser mic at some stage? Don't those need the bigger 3 pin plug things?

Yes you can plug a nice condenser in if you wanted to with a TRS Jack (stereo guitar jack) to XLR (3-pin Canon bigger plug thing) cable. It does work like that 'cos I have mates who use it like that.

As for advice on which card, well here goes:

If you want to go internal, the ES Maya 44 PCI is a good choice for little $. All the features you need except Hi-Z input (which you need for plugging a guitar directly in - works like a DI Box basically). I know quite a few guys using these and they work and sound very good, but I think you need something with Hi-Z ins.

For external cards, the EMUs are great. EMU is Creative's (Soundblaster etc.) professional range of cards, besides being a long-time manufacturer of great sythesizers so they make quality gear. I've used the 0404USB of a mate's before which was really nice IMO, but might be overkill for you. As far as I understand it the Tracker Pre uses the same A/D converters (what converts analogue audio to Digital ones and zeros that your PC can understand and thus determines to a large degree the audio quality) as the 0404, so it should really sound hot! It doesn't have the MIDI or the SPDIF of the 0404, but you won't need that. If you do want to do MIDI, any USB MIDI keyboard you'd buy works via USB itself so you wouldn't need MIDI on your soundcard. Besides that, USB Midi interfaces are really cheap anyway. The Tracker Pre has 2X Neutrik Combo connectors (they take XLR or Jack) that can take Hi-Z, Line or Mic input (with 48V Phantom power for condenser mics). Plus you have a heaphone amp and 4 jack outputs so it should have all the I/O you need for what you want to do. Those are like R2000 and you get Cubase 4 LE, Sonar LE, Wavelab lite and Ableton Lite bundled with it plus some softsynths (same as the 0404) so you don't really need to buy extra recording software. The 0202 doesn't have 48V phantom power so it won't do condenser mics, so I'd say go for the Tracker Pre. I don't know of any card that does as much with such a nice software bundle included for the $.

Hope that helps! ?

AlanRatcliffe

Fritz Brand wrote: I see that Maya 44 has a balanced mic input with phantom power. I don't know what the balanced bit means, but can I plug in a nice condenser mic at some stage? Don't those need the bigger 3 pin plug things?

Balanced is a noise rejection system used for pro gear and especially mics which uses three wires - a hot, a cold and a ground. It's usually the three pin XLR plugs, but occasionally the TRS phone jacks (the same plugs they use for stereo). So to plug a mic in all you need is an XLR to TRS cable - easy to find.

Yes, with 48V Phantom you can use a condenser mic.

Mr. M is right, If you want to plug the guitar straight in, you'll need at least one HiZ input or an additional DI box. That's exactly the reason I got an Edirol UA-25 for my laptop. They are a bit pricey compared to the M-Audio Fast Track Pro - which is an option at about R2600 street price.

Guy-Onraet

the Edirol FA-66 is R2495 at the Bothners sale. It has a few more options than the UA-25 (which , like Alan, I also have) and it's fire wire 8). they are selling out quickly, so you might want to hurry.

Riaan

If you want to plug the guitar straight in, you'll need at least one HiZ input or an additional DI box

Just so I'm clear on this - forgive the stupid question - if you haven't got a Hi-Z input, the DI box will provide sufficient resistance (or is it capacitance? whatever) to plug a guitar into any non-hi-z input?

Does the piezo pickups of an electric such as the Godin's require a Hi-Z input also? If not, is there any advantage to use something like a LR Baggs Para DI on the piezo output?

The Edirol FA-66 looks like a very nice interface. Hope there will still be some by Friday afternoon...

FatBoy

Yea I think the Edirol FA-66 is the one I'll go for, I'm a sucker for a special ?

Any idea what it normally retails for?

I'll need a PCI firewire card as well then, I doubt that music stores stock those. Will probably have to make a couple of calls to computer stores *sigh*

Thanks for all the advice guys, I think this thread has some good info on audio interfaces for future reference.

AlanRatcliffe

Riaan wrote: if you haven't got a Hi-Z input, the DI box will provide sufficient resistance (or is it capacitance? whatever) to plug a guitar into any non-hi-z input?

Z = Impedance (resistance to AC - if anyone cares). Yeah, it provides a high enough load that a Hi-Z source is happy, and turns it into a Lo-Z output which makes the interface's input (or mixer... whatever) happy. Plugging in a Hi-Z output like a guitar into a Lo-Z input will usually make the guitar a bit dull and lifeless.

Does the piezo pickups of an electric such as the Godin's require a Hi-Z input also?

Not at all - it is buffered by a preamp onboard (which is why you need a battery) and has a Lo-Z output. In fact, usually piezo systems run the magnetic signal through a buffer too, so that the piezos and mags can be blended together into one signal if you use a mono cable. This means you wouldn't need a DI for the magnetic signal either. Cool, hey?

The Edirol FA-66 looks like a very nice interface. Hope there will still be some by Friday afternoon...

One left - more coming, but they're not sure when they'll get there. Speak to Greg - he's holding it for you. ?

Fritz Brand wrote: Any idea what it normally retails for?

R4,499. Damn good interface too. One of the first to have Vista drivers.

I'll need a PCI firewire card as well then, I doubt that music stores stock those.

They might. Also check with the guys if there are any specific chipsets to avoid or specific cards to get - I know some FireWire chips have been known to cause problems with pro audio gear. IIRC, the Texas Instruments chipsets are the ones to go for... but check with the guys at Bothner's.

Renesongs

I was checking my Maya 44 - there is a mic booster switch, (not the phantom power switch), which boost your guitar signal up about 20db would this not make said DI box unnecessary ?

AlanRatcliffe

Unfortunately not. The preamp that supplies the boost is after the input circuitry that the guitar "sees".

I'm not going to try and explain the concept in depth, because it's complex, but audio circuits use something called "impedance bridging", which means that the source impedance is approximately 1/10th of the load impedance. A bridged impedance basically stops the changing impedance (which changes based on the frequency) of the load from affecting the response of the source impedance, which changes it's frequency response.

The best example of a mismatched impedance is a cheap piezo guitar without a preamp (which will have an impedance of anywhere from 2 - 5 MOhm) plugged directly into a mixer (which has an input impedance of about 20 KOhm). The impedance mismatch basically kills all the bass response and a lot of the power - which is why these guitars sound so thin and scratchy without a preamp or DI.

Riaan

Thanks Alan! ?