the importance of a soundcheck .......... pro's and con's of the working muso

Keira-WitherKay

hi ya all... thought i had to post this........... it's about what happened to me last night
i was booked to do 2 shows on the same night ...and not double booked but the times were perfect

i did a cocktail function at Tanz cafe for prosound who were hosting Electrovoice people from abroad and also international sound press, since i believe they have a big part of the contract to do sound for the world cup....... so a room of sound specialists...... and since prosound sponsor the sound at Tanz cafe that was the venue........

the sound rig at Tanz was a full line array system which is run By joe (resident sound engineer) we did the soundcheck and got an amazing sound....... the gig was flawless sound wise not one squeul ( how do you spell that ) no feedback it was awesome.......... and a great natural sound to the music it was percussion and nylon guitar and voice ....... so very organic sound .......

then when that gig ended at 8pm i had to rush down to espresso jazz in Linden where i did a solo gig ...... which started at 10 ish damn it was horrendous sound wise..... it was feeding back that i couldn't play anything subtle cos the guitar just dissapeared...so i reverted to being quite percussive cos it seemed when i banged it out the sound was better heheheh

damn that was personally the worst sound i had for ages........ and NO ONES FAULT BUT MY OWN.............. WHY ???

cos i could not make the soundcheck which was offered to me at 7 pm .....sure i was performing elsewhere at time but still....

i like to believe being a professional means never having to appologise for your sound or performance and last night i felt dreadfull that the sound was so out of control .........

and ironically it was the same gear and cables and guitar that sounded so awesome at Tanz cafe ......

so same setup different room, but sure i had to use th inhouse system .....

but no excuse .......

that soundcheck was a critical step i ommitted cos i was confident i could "plug and play"

but i played EVEN KNOWING THE SOUND WAS NOT GREAT cos yeah the show must go on...........

BUT ALL WAS NOT LOST the owner ( who is a guitarist and plays a taylor through a beautiful SWR blonde amp) offered me to do some shows there in future ....... so guess it was not as bad as i thought ....

so the moral of the story is even with gear that works so well and an instant good sound with my own speakers and with some inhouse systems ... don't assume you'll get it right in all venues without the soundcheck ...

my next time there I WILL SOUNDCHECK AT 7

SO THATS THE PRO'S AND CONS OF DOING 2 GIGS ON ONE NIGHT

PeteM

Fully agree with you Keira. I had a recent experience where our 4 piece band could not have a sound check because there were several bands following one another on stage. There was no sound guy so we had to just to just wing it - we sounded okay, but the balance was not good. So, although we've been asked to play there again, we've declined unless we can have a proper sound check. Lousy conditions that could be obviated takes all the fun out of playing.

Squonk

This is starting to sound scary, I am playing at TJ's open mic tonight and I hope the sound is OK!
It's my very first time so I dont know what to expect. :-[

But good stuff with your Gig, I think you have the know how and the personality to get you out of a dodgy situation. ?

Fingerpicker

Just get there at about 7pm. Ask Kevin the sound guy if you can do a sound check. He loves it when people do that so he doesn't have to start from scratch when you get on the stage for your gig.

DonovanB

Keira thanks for posting this. I always lke to learn from other's experiences so I can be a better performer.

singemonkey

DonovanB wrote: Keira thanks for posting this. I always lke to learn from other's experiences so I can be a better performer.

MIKA-the-better-one

No sound check.... no play, its a rule...... no moniters, no play............ no decent pa, mics etc , no play.............

vic

MIKA the better one wrote: No sound check.... no play, its a rule...... no moniters, no play............ no decent pa, mics etc , no play.............

you mean you don't use your own PA, mics and monitors...? ?

MIKA-the-better-one

Nope I have always thought anyshow worth the time, or worth playing should have its own pa, mics moniters........ I carry a spare mic incase they have some awful thing but in general Venue should provide, or sound guy. I assume this is different with you? do you take all that to shows?

DonovanB

Not everyone gets to play big shows, nor aspire to that.

I always take my own mic as well, but I will NEVER use someone else's amp again.

MIKA-the-better-one

At a show once the guy convinced me to use his mesa onstage to avoid a huge sound check again, It was crap as hell, I swore I would never touch another persons amp again............

TomCat

A few basic rules that put you in control of your gig:

1. If you sing...have your own mic. you never know when last the foam screen in the venue's mic was washed/cleaned..... ?

2. If you play electric....use your own rig..(amp and effects).....you know what tone you want and how to get it with your own kit...optional....have your own mic for the amp as well. Any sound engineer worth his salt can easily adjust a repositioned mic for best results.....at least you know you sounded good on stage.....

3. Acoustic players.....get and use your own DI box...many venues don't use them and you end up with all sorts of issues that you can't control.

vic

MIKA the better one wrote: Nope I have always thought anyshow worth the time, or worth playing should have its own pa, mics moniters........ I carry a spare mic incase they have some awful thing but in general Venue should provide, or sound guy. I assume this is different with you? do you take all that to shows?

I'm not talking big festivals here or TJ's....I 'm talking about the ordinary gig at a corporate function at say, a hall/venue at the wine farm, Nietvoorbij...etc. Surely you'll need your own PA equipment ? How much does a sound guy charge to provide you with the complete set-up?

MIKA-the-better-one

Ah I see, then yes corprate functions (if I played them) I would probably if earning money as I assume you do, I would buy my own PA.
But I play my songs that I write in a band, not to entertain, but kinda for I guesse the art....... so there is very little money, as I am promoting my band with shows, and earn around a R1000 per show if lucky.
For example I am playing a fest called jhb burning here in march 27, 30 bands five stages across mellville, I sentthrough our Stage rider, so the sound guy is ready, I explained the full set up............. and I understand they have 5 moniters onstage, enough mics etc..... so thats the situation I play in.

vic

MIKA the better one wrote: Ah I see, then yes corprate functions (if I played them) I would probably if earning money as I assume you do, I would buy my own PA.
But I play my songs that I write in a band, not to entertain, but kinda for I guesse the art....... so there is very little money, as I am promoting my band with shows, and earn around a R1000 per show if lucky.
For example I am playing a fest called jhb burning here in march 27, 30 bands five stages across mellville, I sentthrough our Stage rider, so the sound guy is ready, I explained the full set up............. and I understand they have 5 moniters onstage, enough mics etc..... so thats the situation I play in.

That's perfect.....we on the other hand would play for 4-5 hours (entertain ?) and yes, getting paid for our "hard work", which I really enjoyed ! ? So yes, there's a difference.

MIKA-the-better-one

I couldnt play 4 hours .... my goodness, after our 45 min I am drenched in sweat and can hardly remember my own name.......... Yeh different band situations may warrent different sound...... For us I only want to focus on playing the show, and if the venue wants us to play or we want to be part of a show, then its a quick way to tell from how much they put into there sound..... Usually the sound guy I use charges R1500 for the full set up, and he is good, he also knows the sound. I get most venues to cover his charge so i dont have to worry about him....

AlanRatcliffe

Interesting discussion.

In my experience you have to play a lot of the smaller venues (and build/supply your own PA) to get to the point where you are invited to the bigger shows where the PA is laid on. Building your own PA is all part of the business of music (and is a good investment if you buy solid stuff and hire it out when you are not using it yourself).

In the long run it's always cheaper to invest in your own PA than hiring anyway. If you are a popular band getting paid for festival gigs, you should invest the money you make in your PA, because bands usually only get festival gigs as long as they are popular, and it invariably dries up after a year or two for 99% of the bands. Basically it's a case of "make hay while the sun shines".

I always liked using my own mics, but it depends on the engineer. Some guys will always get the best results using what they know, rather than being forced to use your favourite mics.

Learn to work with the common backline amps because unless you're the headline act you don't often get the choice. Especially these days with baggage restrictions and cost of transport, expecting to use your own amp is often foolish and/or expensive.

Bob-Dubery

TomCat wrote: 3. Acoustic players.....get and use your own DI box...many venues don't use them and you end up with all sorts of issues that you can't control.

That's what I'm thinking. I ran into the infamous chorus pedal wierdness at TJs again. Hit the pedal.... there goes the signal.

OK, I'd tested the thing at home - into the sound card on my PC - no volume drop, but clearly there is something else going on with the longer leads and/or impedances in the setup that TJs use. But I used that same pedal into Keira's rig a couple of times no problem - but she has a DI box in the chain.

But, yes, silly me. That pedal has a gain control on it. And I soundchecked. I should have soundchecked the pedal as well, then I could have adjusted the gain (or decided not to use it). As it was I couldn't start adjusting the gain there and then, so the sound guy had to do whatever he could.

In his defense I must say that it's hard at an open mic night. There was one guy who got up there, quite a good fingerpicker (but not "Fingerpicker" from this forum) but the sound was really bad. Loads of tops, a bit in the midrange and nothing else. But they showed me on the desk that they had the bass wound up on his channel, and were pushing it on their master EQ and all to little avail. There was just nothing coming down the line. They could have addressed that in a soundcheck, but they didn't even know this guy was going to be there, let alone what gear he had.

Renesongs

After many abortive attempts to make an impressive entrance because of sound problems The first song of the set is always called "sound check" In my case it is a easy loose jam in which the singer wonders around stage people tweak monitors and tone the we get comfortable with the audience and they get comfortable with us. Then when everybody is happy... boom you blast out with the tightest most powerful number you know. Well thats what works for me and the bands I play with.

PeteM

Renesongs wrote: After many abortive attempts to make an impressive entrance because of sound problems The first song of the set is always called "sound check" In my case it is a easy loose jam in which the singer wonders around stage people tweak monitors and tone the we get comfortable with the audience and they get comfortable with us. Then when everybody is happy... boom you blast out with the tightest most powerful number you know. Well thats what works for me and the bands I play with.

Make sense to me