Understanding Modes

Dirk

Hey guys..

I'm busy working on modes for some of my students, so I thought i'd post a summery here in case anybody is in the process of learning them.

Feel free to correct me on errors as well as add anything to the post if you like.

The root is A

The Ionian mode
The Ionian mode is the major scale. (No altered notes)

------------------------------------------------4--5--------------
----------------------------------------5--7--------------------
------------------------------4--6--7----------------------------
-------------------4--6--7------------------------------------
-------4--5--7----------------------------------------------
-5--7-----------------------------------------------------------

The Mixolydian mode
The Mixolydian mode is the major scale with the 7th note flattened. (One altered note)

------------------------------------------------5--------------
--------------------------------------5--7--8------------------
----------------------------4--6--7----------------------------
------------------4--5--7--------------------------------------
--------4--5--7------------------------------------------------
-5--7-----------------------------------------------------------

The Dorian mode
The Dorian mode is the major scale with the 3rd and the 7th note flattened. (Two altered notes)

------------------------------------------------5--------------
--------------------------------------5--7--8------------------
----------------------------4--5--7----------------------------
------------------4--5--7--------------------------------------
-----------5--7------------------------------------------------
-5--7--8---------------------------------------------------------

The Aeolian mode
The Aeolian mode is the major scale with the 3rd, 6th and the 7th note flattened. (Three altered notes)

------------------------------------------------5--------------
--------------------------------------5--6--8------------------
----------------------------4--5--7----------------------------
----------------------5--7--------------------------------------
-----------5--7--8----------------------------------------------
-5--7--8---------------------------------------------------------

The Phrygian mode
The Phrygian mode is the major scale with the 3rd, 6th, 7th and the 9th note flattened. (Four altered notes)

--------------------------------------------------5--------------
---------------------------------------5--6--8------------------
--------------------------------5--7----------------------------
----------------------5--7--8------------------------------------
-----------5--7--8----------------------------------------------
-5--7--8---------------------------------------------------------

The Locrian mode
The Locrian mode is the major scale with the 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th and the 9th note flattened. (Five altered notes)

----------------------------------------------------5--------------
------------------------------------------6--8------------------
--------------------------------5--7--8--------------------------
----------------------5--7--8------------------------------------
-----------5--6--8----------------------------------------------
-5--7--8---------------------------------------------------------

The Lydian mode
The Lydian mode is the major scale with the 4th note sharpened.

--------------------------------------------------4--5--------------
---------------------------------------4--5--7--------------------
------------------------------4--6------------------------------
-------------------4--6--7------------------------------------
-------4--6--7----------------------------------------------
-5--7-----------------------------------------------------------

Dirk

Ooops, just saw Attilla also covered modes in his post.. :-[

RobK

I think this might be the first post about modes I've read, anywhere, that hasn't gone over my head by the second sentence ?

I'm not learning scales or modes, but I'll bookmark this for future reference.

Thanks.

FatBoy

RobK wrote: I think this might be the first post about modes I've read, anywhere, that hasn't gone over my head by the second sentence ?

I'm not learning scales or modes, but I'll bookmark this for future reference.

Thanks.

I agree! This doesn't look all that scary!

Squonk

Good stuff Blues.
Guitar lessons next year, will be contacting you 8)

guitarboy2828

Good basic lesson.. However, there is a lot missing here that needs to explain these bad boys.. As to when to use them, what is what... But, you're teaching people in person, so you can explain them.

Personally I didn't learn them by altering notes from the major scale. I learnt them as individual sounds based of the major scales. C ionian, D dorian. BUT, i think this way is easier to learn them and their positions.

?

Dirk

Yeah, I'm busy working on some more detail. Will post it as soon as I'm done.

guitarboy2828 wrote: Personally I didn't learn them by altering notes from the major scale. I learnt them as individual sounds based of the major scales. C ionian, D dorian. BUT, i think this way is easier to learn them and their positions.

I also learned them differently but I couldn't think of an easier way to explain it to them.

If anyone wants to add some stuff, feel free. I might just come across some stuff I can through into the lessons ?

guitarwebnews

You might find this video to be helpful.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1699698/modes/

inflames

Great post!

I had Andrew explain this to me over facebook chat while trying the modes on guitar.
Now I can just print this out ?

Wizard

Another way of thinking about modes is that they are the major scale shifted.

Ionian = major scale (e.g. C D E F G A B)
Dorian = shifted 1 note (e.g. D E F G A B C)
Phrygian = shifted 2 notes (e.g. E F G A B C D)
Lydian = shifted 3 notes (e.g. F G A B C D E)
etc ...

NorioDS

Yep, that's what I like to do. The cool thing about that approach is that if you learn your C Major scale all over your fretboard, you can then take all those notes and play them over a D minor progression for Dorian practise, E minor progression for Phrygian, etc.

Otherwise you can take the Frank Gambale approach and use the 4 & 5 chords of the key you're playing in and just add the root note of that key over it. Eg: C/F and C/G. That helps you "hear" the mode while you're noodling.

It's lots of fun when you play with chords + modes because then you can see why things work together the way they do. Meir taught me to write out the major scale and then work out chords from there. That's a very useful exercise for learning this stuff. I've only started applying it lately and it makes everything just fit.

Eish... getting ahead of myself here. It's this darned work I don't want to do. It's all the work's fault ?

guitarboy2828

Agreed Norio.. Without playing over different chord progressions, it'll be hard to really hear the difference in modes. As you said, you can take the C major/ionian and play it over Dminor, Eminor, etc. But will sound completely different over each one.

The other thing is root notes are important. Landing on a C note in a song in Dm is not going to sound so good. So it is crucial to find some backing tracks and try each mode over the different chords. ?

arjunmenon

guitarboy2828 wrote: Agreed Norio.. Without playing over different chord progressions, it'll be hard to really hear the difference in modes. As you said, you can take the C major/ionian and play it over Dminor, Eminor, etc. But will sound completely different over each one.
The other thing is root notes are important. Landing on a C note in a song in Dm is not going to sound so good. So it is crucial to find some backing tracks and try each mode over the different chords. ?

Agreed gentlemen, but landing on C when you're on Dm (the chord, not the key) gives you a b7th and should give you a dorian sound (minor 7th).
However, should you find yourself to be out by a semitone (and if you have a general idea of where you're supposed to be) you can use the ~~wrong~~ accidental note as a passing chromatic.
Works well for me ?

evolucian

the dorian would be the maj 6 and not the b7... regardless, the minors all have the b7 and modes are interchangeable anyway so it don't matter much....

Nice lesson

arjunmenon

In the key of C, the dorian starts with D..the notes in the dorian being D,E,F,G,A,B & C. This translates,as a formula, to 1-2-b3-4-5-6-b7.
And since the notes in Dm are D,F & A, playing the C should effectively bring out the dorian and phrygian sounds.
Not all minors have the b7, but a lot of them do. Also, modes maybe (technically) interchangeable but that would change intervallic relationships and the modal formulae as such. Which is fine if what you're playing requires key changes very often.
I'm not trying to be anal here (although i probably come across that way), but i'd like to hear your explanation of arriving at the major 6th Evo.
Cheers

evolucian

well, the major 6 is in your explanation too. Its the only minor mode (except for the melodic minor scale {and its modes} and from this point on in the explanation being ignored) that has the maj 6. Aeolian and phrygian have the m6 and the phrygian goes a step further to add the b2/9...

The dorian is the closest to major therefore it sounds happier too, regardless of the minor 3rd. All three modes, aeolian, phrygian and dorian have the b7. Playing C against your Dm would indicate all three modes could be used. However playing B (the maj6) and C (the b7) would indicate dorian, keeping in mind you have the other notes, or a few of them tagging along.

So in your improv's over m7 chords (or most other minors) you could use the appropriate scale (meaning the one in the key) or you could opt for the dorian. Opting for the dorian would keep it minor but also instill a happier mood as such.

All this depends on your chord in the end. If your chord contains the b9... it may have to use the phrygian or a diminished or half-whole or whatever you deem fit that suits the sound.

Guess I waffled a bit too much there. I hope it clarifies

****EDIT****
It could be argued that using a dorian scale over a vi chord would change the key a bit... but it could also merely be used as a colouring tool... and a very effective one at that.

I slapped together two tracks for anyone wanting to hear the difference... its kinda subtle and my playing is shitty lately, so please bear thru this minute of crud

aeolian --- http://www.box.net/shared/komvlpnx2y

dorian --- http://www.box.net/shared/h2pj6gisc3

arjunmenon

evo, that is a kickass explanation. Thank you for that. +1 & karma'd.

evolucian

Thanks dude.. and you welcome ?

P.S. I made some tracks a while ago which would help with the modes... or at least jamming to something. They were slapped together in 5 minutes so the quality isn't great but at least its a starting point. If anyone is interested, pls let me know and I'll post some links.

Renesongs

It could be argued that using a dorian scale over a vi chord would change the key a bit... but it could also merely be used as a colouring tool... and a very effective one at that.

Blues players combine the minor and major pentatonic scales plus a b5 (the blue note) for good measure which gives a dorian (1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 ) in the vi (aeolian) position plus 2 extras making 1 2 3 b3 4 b5 5 6 b7. Obviously if you play these notes just any old how it's not going to sound too good so you need a plan. One way is to gravitate your riffs and solos to accent the notes of the chord being played at the time. With a lot of practice and effort you can drift away from modes and modal playing and start thinking in terms of tonal playing - something I hope to accomplish in my life time. 8)

evolucian

Renesongs wrote: Blues players combine the minor and major pentatonic scales plus a b5 (the blue note) for good measure which gives a dorian (1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7 ) in the vi (aeolian) position plus 2 extras making 1 2 3 b3 4 b5 5 6 b7. Obviously if you play these notes just any old how it's not going to sound too good so you need a plan. One way is to gravitate your riffs and solos to accent the notes of the chord being played at the time. With a lot of practice and effort you can drift away from modes and modal playing and start thinking in terms of tonal playing - something I hope to accomplish in my life time. 8)

I actually love doing this cos it adds so much attitude to the section in which it takes place. It provides a vehicle to pull off some nice rolling country licks aswell... When you add the extra note of the major 3rd to this, you can play it over a major chord. Hopefully its a V chord and you remember where it is, hehe. You can get a good old bebop thing going... or create steaming fusion lines with all the chromatic passing notes. Shot for that Rene, ?