My answer to number 1 would be depending on what deal your manager got you. My band only ever once got paid, the rest of the time, we were doing it for publicity.Your manager will also be in charge of the gigs. We never had a manager, so we did our own phoning around etc. etc.

Just my 5cents worth

Easy.

Get in touch with a few local singers in your town, and ask them if you can perform with them, tell them you'll do the first gig for free, and from there on if they feel you hold a asset to the performance then take can use you for future gigs.
Dont expect to get much money , roughly between about R100-R500 a gig, some of it may be acoustic guitar gigs and some would be pub gigs with backtracks.

I used to do alot of these odd random gigs, but i got irretated with the midi backtracks.
If there is a audience you'll get paid, if not, tuff luck.

That is just the session guitar route.


If you wanna do instrumental you must be good and prepared for anything.
Gigging with a laptop will work, but if you can get a partner to jam with it would be so much more fun, plus if you are really good people are going start talking about the performance they have seen a.k.a building up a reputation.

hello norio,  well i'm a pro musician (no day job) but i do teach ....

the main thing is having a product to sell.... being a musician is like any biz if you have a product to sell that people want you will do well....

overheads ..if you doing restaurants,,,just own a small PA no need for more than 150W per channel... but buy something that gives a clean clear sound.... you need little else...
these days i can do instrumental guitar gigs in small 40 - 60 seater restaurants with just a 30 W guitar
amp and it's sufficient , it however is a really good amp though  and the sound is soft but clear and natural.... don't try that with a cheap and nasty amp... most venues want a soft natural sound... so it's not about power but quality ...

finding gigs...again if you offer someting unique you will find work.... since there are so many really great artists out there on the gig scene that being unique is the only way to stick out.

money ..insist on it.... except at open mics...if people know you play for free or publicity you will get hooked into those deals over and over.... you need to educate the market that they must pay for your services.... and in return you need to offer a professional package.... which means arrive ontime/no long soundcheck/have descent sounding gear/a repetoire they will enjoy/and be able to play your instrument ..... oh and leave the drinking and or drugging for after the gig .... and preferably at another venue hehehhe no use your employer having you shit faced in the venue you work in......

also agents are available to help you find gigs...for a percentage of course.... but they a neccessary evil as most hotels /casino's theatres will only deal with management /agents never the artist direct....


good luck and let me know how it goes...if you playing anywhere nearby i'll stop in...


peace and light
Keira

Thanks guys, all makes great sense. Appreciate it a lot ?

Keira, I will probably be going to a LOT of open mic events before I try gigging for dosh so you'll definitely see me some time. Plus I'm gonna need some jazz lessons from you at some point!

Norio wrote:Plus I'm gonna need some jazz lessons from you at some point!

me first! ?

Norio wrote: 1. What are the reasonable overheads to expect?
I would like to perform, for now, as just me and my trusty Korg plugged into a decent PA. I'd want to play a bunch of jazzy background stuff for restaurant patrons. Pubs, bars & rock n roll? I'm probably not ready for that yet.

I can only speak for Cape Town, but guess this will be valid all over.

You're right that most restaurants (and small pub venues) won't have PAs. The Catch 22 is that places who have PAs / regular music are not to keen on new, untried talent! Those types of venues tend to book from agents, not artists.

I agree with Keira that, in terms of what you describe, a smallish PA would do. A Powered mixer perhaps (amp & mixer in one with a basic EQ). You'll then need a speaker or two. Fender make these all-in-one PAs that literally fold into a suitcase set-up. Power-wise OK for what you describe. Then off course you need double of all peripherals. Take my word for it - extra guitar lead, extra leads for pedals, etc. If you sing, have a spare microphone, etc. If you can't continue in front of a packed room 'cause your lead dies, or mic blows or something like that, your rep will be in tatters. And a basic on the run repair kit for DIY (torch or penlight, screwdrivers, pliers, solder, etc).

But, Norio, my main concern is that you'll outgrow your PA before you know it. As you get better and more ambitious, the venues will grow size-wise, and you'll need to upgrade. I started with a powered mixer and two 12" speakers. Then got an amp and two 250W 15# speakers. Then got two 400W 15# speakers, etc, etc. Can't get rid of the other stuff, so I'm sitting with combinations of PAs with little resale value. So my advice is think of the next step and get an intermediate type PA.

Many one man bands play with JBL Eons. They are powered speakers. They can take a line and a microphone right in. The newest version actually has an onboard mixer, but you can pick up a small 4 - 6 channel mixer for very cheap. They're 400Ws, and you'd be able to get by just using one 15" Eon for what you intend. You can add another later. I'd be able to play our two-piece band with backtracks comfortably through 2 x 15" Eons in any medium sized venue. I used that setup at a wedding for 100 guests in a massive wine cellar, and it rocked.

The permutations are endless, but that's some ideas.

Norio wrote: 2. What can one realistically expect to earn?
What can you expect to earn from a gig? I suspect that a one-man band gets a little more profit than a band as there are less people to share the bucks with but, of course, bands can ask for more money as there's simply more on offer. I won't be performing with a band ANY time soon, so I'm wondering purely as a single musician, with his Korg (or laptop maybe) + guitar + PA?

The million dollar question (bad pun :-[).

This will vary from one area to another, and from venue to venue. Reality is that in any city you get venues that can be listed as A,B or C-list etc. So you'll get paid according to the level of the venue (smart or dump), commitment of the owner to supporting music, etc. Keira is so right - its about whether you can add value to the patron's evening. Remember, they can switch on an illegally copied mp3 for free! This applies even more to restaurants, where people do not necessarily go to get entertained by a muso. So you've got to have a good product.

Manfred's idea is cool, but up to a point. I agree with Keira that you can become 'typecast'. We have the same problem on the circuit down here where some guys play for next to nothing, esentially killing the market for the pros and semi-pros. It devalues the going rate - simple economics.

I moved from the bedroom to the stage by playing with friends who had gigs. I would do two or three songs with them (once I had reach a competence they were comfortable with having me on stage). From there it became the odd set or more. Obviously no money involved. But got to know the venues and owners/managers/other musos, and soon the venues were asking where I was when I didn't come to guest. Then the friend/band could say, 'well, you'll have to throw in an extra R300 or whatever', and soon your part of the band, getting paid.

I know plenty of guys who play (one man with backtracks) four hour gigs for anything between R 600 - R 1000 a night. I refuse to do that. Restaurants tend to pay less than pubs. On the A-list you can expect between R 1 200 - R 2 000 a night. Week-nights you'll get less than Fridays and Saturdays.

Manfred and Keira are both right. An agent is the way to go. Not for any other reason than that most of the A-list venues won't even talk to you. They book through agents. Some agents do all the bookings for particular venues. Those are the best. Not only will they get you your own regular gigs, but they'll call you to fill in for other bands on their roster if someone becomes unavailable. That happens all the time - someone gets ill, gets a private booking for the evening, etc. Agents build up a pool of reliable bands they can go to at short notice to fill in for someone without worrying that the venue will be unhappy with the quality of the replacement.

I think my agent is the greatest. He's a pro himself, gives me great advice, finds me great gigs at rates I could never convince venues to pay me. His endorsement is what lifted us from the B-list to the better paying gigs.

So, in summary - at restaurants, expect from R 500 - 800. Push for more if its a great place and you've become well known. Pub gigs shouldn't be less than R 1 000 a night for four hours (8 - 12, 9 -1, etc).

Norio wrote: 3. And probably the most important question: How do YOU find work?
What methods have you used, successfully, to find gigging work. If you have a lot of experience in this area, then please also share the methods you used that resulted in BAD work (miserable, bad conditions, slow payers, etc) versus those methods that resulted in GOOD work (nice conditions, pay on time, consistent work).

I answered this above. Get a good agent! But, corporate identity and professionalism is key. After I created a band website and printed proper business cards to hand out at gigs, the bookings took off. So that's how it happens. At pub gigs we get asked for a card - six months later someone phones you for a wedding, corporate Christmas party, etc. So once you're in, it starts rolling.

I used to find pubs and venues in the vicinity, and get their e-mail addresses. Would then send them a mail with a link to the web-site. Got quite a few that way.

OK, so that's a few points to keep it rolling. Let's hear some more form the other guys.

Remember, the rates, etc will vary immensely (I imagine) from city to city and from live band to cover artists, etc. So read it in that context.

Hope this helps ...

Many one man bands play with JBL Eons. They are powered speakers. They can take a line and a microphone right in. The newest version actually has an onboard mixer, but you can pick up a small 4 - 6 channel mixer for very cheap. They're 400Ws, and you'd be able to get by just using one 15" Eon for what you intend. You can add another later. I'd be able to play our two-piece band with backtracks comfortably through 2 x 15" Eons in any medium sized venue. I used that setup at a wedding for 100 guests in a massive wine cellar, and it rocked.

Just to endorse the EON route. These loudspeakers are almost foolproof. Close to 1 million EONs have been manufactured and sold Worldwide.....impressive.

Eons strength is that they can be used as monitors onstage when you upgrade to a larger or rental PA so they never become redundant.

On the mixer front there is the Soundcraft EFX range. http://www.soundcraft.com/products/product.aspx?pid=148
Great produce at a very competitive price.

Riaan C wrote: I can only speak for Cape Town, but guess this will be valid all over.

Great post Riaan! Karma'd! ?

Totally awesome post, Riaan, thanks much ?

Would you be able to give me a very rough guesstimate of the price-ranges I'm looking at for PAs. From small to medium range? ie: The stuff you've bought - what do you guess they'd cost me today?

How do you find an agent? Google search? Ask around here? How do you find one that mostly deals in, say, jazzy stuff for restaurants? ie: Quiet gigs.

Really love all the tips so far. Especially from the current pros. One thing seems apparent, it seems wisest to offer lessons AND do gigs if you wanna make any sort of decent living without killing yourself. But then, judging from my guitar teacher (Meir/Satriani), that's kinda like killing yourself in any case - it's hard work teaching all those people!

Norio wrote: One thing seems apparent, it seems wisest to offer lessons AND do gigs if you wanna make any sort of decent living without killing yourself.  But then, judging from my guitar teacher (Meir/Satriani), that's kinda like killing yourself in any case - it's hard work teaching all those people!

teaching music is not a fallback but a skill in itself.... many great musicians that play awesomely make lousy teachers.... teaching is about recognising in a student how to help them advance....

i have huge issues with tutors who don't teach basic music theory and technique but make a quick buck by showing someone a song every week.... students should wake up and download the tabs far cheaper....

hows this for getting under my skin.... i have recently taken on a new student ..who plays well enough .. but nowhere even near semi pro level, and does not even have the faintest theoretical knowledge..and does not know how to even play a major scale or how chords are constructed, nor even the note names on the fretboard....and has to work them out each time....

YET THIS PERSON  TEACH'S MUSIC ........... so i guess this person  comes to me for lessons and then teach's their students what was learnt the week before..............  THATS JUST WRONG.........

beware out there for who proclaims to be music teachers....


also it takes time and effort to teach.... and the rewards are not great ....

anyway all i'm saying is teaching is a profession and not just a quickfix or fallback job for pro musicians


peace and light
Keira

+1 Alan on the teaching.

My wife both plays and teaches music. She is a stickler for grounding students in the basic theory.

Simple rule: Master the fundamentals first. Then you can get fancy later.

As you say, teaching is hard work and the rewards are few... Hats off the the Music Teachers (the good ones that is)

Excellent thread Norio

It's also monumental to have Riaan and Keira and other pro's on our forum ?

Norio - I have a Yamaha Stagepas 300 PA that pushes 150 w through each channel, it is small and very powerful
I have used it to play at a couple of weddings(my family, mind you) , venues that can cater for 150 and it performed quite well.
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/pa_systems/stagepas300/index.html

They are about R8000 and there is a bigger 500 model that goes for about R14000.

Even my wife can carry it!

Keira WitherKay wrote: anyway all i'm saying is teaching is a profession and not just a quickfix or fallback job for pro musicians

I have a natural knack (and a passion) for teaching. I used to teach Linux and I have a few informal students who I teach guitar to. The only reason I mentioned teaching as a "fallback" is because it's hard work. It requires a lot of patience and even the best of teachers get sick of it. Largely due, I imagine, to unmotivated students who don't bother practising or bettering themselves.

So it's not something I would want to jump into unless I had to. I think I'd far rather teach on the web so that, those that are motivated enough to draw good value from the lessons would benefit, and the lazy ones would defeat themselves without me having to feel the pain of the process.

I certainly do NOT see teaching as a quick-fix. Faaaaaar from it.

Squonk wrote: Excellent thread Norio

It's also monumental to have Riaan and Keira and other pro's on our forum ?

Thanks and I absolutely agree! Was looking forward to their replies in particular ?

Squonk wrote: Norio - I have a Yamaha Stagepas 300 PA that pushes 150 w through each channel, it is small and very powerful
I have used it to play at a couple of weddings(my family, mind you) , venues that can cater for 150 and it performed quite well.
http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/products/pa_systems/stagepas300/index.html

They are about R8000 and there is a bigger 500 model that goes for about R14000.

Wow, I wasn't expecting that. I'm very glad I started this thread ? Never realised that a PA could cost so much. I'm assuming that's a mid-range PA?

yeah PA's are not cheap.... another option is to buy a cheap behringer desk for about R1000 and try find some powered speakers to go with it ,  even local company's like skytronics manufacture powered speakers under the  skytec liscence from what i understand  i own a powered 12 and a powered 8 from this brand and they great .... not quality of eon's ...JBL is kinda the upmarket speaker brand... but good enough that i have no probs with reliability and sound is good...

i personally believe with live sound there is a threshhold... and if your gear is over that threshold you will not lose a gig cos you don't have great gear.... but never be under that mark.... cos then you will lose work....

the trick is it all depends what you want to push through the system .... if you want full backtracks with huge drums and thumping bass forget the 150 W a side PA and buy at least 300W a side.... but if you like me and it's a bit of percussion and an acoustic and maybe a voice or violin i can do gigs with my crate guitar amp and i do ...i'm one for taking the minimal amount of gear to a gig.... (what i don't mention is i have a spare of everything including a powered speaker in my car .......cos things go wrong ...at last nights gig one condenser mic of mine had a wire come loose ..so shit happens and a pro muso prepares for it.... a great musicians motto is " hope for the best ...but plan for the worst" 


also you mention you wanna do jazz gigs...... if you find some jazz gigs in this town let me know ... hehehh
most of the venues i know of  actually don't want jazz.....but adult contempory..... so if you think nora jones is jazz then yeah they jazz gigs hehehehhehe

and lastly if you can help it don't use backtrax.....arggggggggghhhhh  my pet hate.... and i can gladly report that most of jhb's solo acts now are doing it live......sean hays/kathy raven/victoria landey/cindy alter/ jim neversink/ leon patris/ frankie beagle/ laurie levine........list goes on ............. oh and myself heheeh...all pro muso's and not a backtrax in sight ....  and  and i even know venues that are refusing to hire people with a computers on stage  ..... think those days are gone.... do the jack johnson thing and knock it out on an acoustic.... or get a trio together .... i went to my surprise on tues evening to ohagans in rock cottage to find a 4 piece live band on a tues night... fabulous .....  and the venue was full for a tuesday .... 

i know computer backtrax is tempting but if you just starting out try avoid it..... ...you'll learn the skill to entertain without it and you'll be empowered..... and not another kareoke singer.....argghhhhhh   

guess you can tell it's my pet hate....


peace and light
Keira

ohagans on a tuesday is actually an open mic night , have played quiet a few times , and the crowd there are really awesome .

@ Tailon

O Hagans across from Rock Cottage?
What stuff do you play?

Thanks ? Great advice Keira!

I'm still a fan of backing tracks but not for covers. ie: I like to find a simple backing track that allows me the space to improv. Got some nice jazzy ones and the Korg has some good ones too. I consider them a very necessary evil for small-time musos and beginners. It makes life easier for us, so I'm going to stick with that for now. At least until I can find a bunch of people who wouldn't mind playing alongside me ?

@squonk , ye , we normally do the 70's rock covers....

lol norio did you see the video of the young kid doing final countdown on the kazoo with that ukalele/piano.... see he don't need back tracks heheheh ...........just teasing ....

learn to play solo guitar and back yourself... not hard to do..... at all.... yeah i know i'm up against a brick wall.... heheheheh i can already hear you loading the next midi file heheheh