Koch Twintone ii

OD1 · 2022-12-20T08:30:11+00:00

So my 6505+ broke and funny thing and a long story - but I ended up with a Koch Twintone ii as a replacement in the interim. The peavey is fixed but the ko...

Koch Twintone ii

V8

OD1 Makes, sense - I think there was never a decent cab when I was around (Also, RIP TInus, sweet dude!).

I think a 6505 is a totally different beast - higher gain chuggage more than Bluesy rock goodness?. My mate has a older 5150 and ends up using a older Marshall Valvestate for blues & cleans rather than the 5150. 🤷‍♂️ But it get thunderous at jams, the 5150 & a 4x12 moves a lot of air. It even doubles as a bass amp when he pulls out the 8 string djent-stick 😝

if you wanna compare the Kock to something Peavey, I reckon a Classic 30 would be the one to A/B it with.

OD1

Yeah man RIP Tinus, so you knew him and gather move in those circles. Yep, was a sad day man.

Anyway- the 6505 has way too much gain for me stock anyway, so I replaced V1 with a 5751 I think it is and a 12AY7 for PI, warms up the amp but still, plus the G12M's are better than a V30 regarding harsh top end but by no means are they 'smooth'.....find that with the Koch as well.

Greenback 25's reissue....they harsh as well but can get a good sound, V30's aint for me anymore. The Koch and Peavey has distortion sound (green channel on peavey) but the koch is also a bit fizzy when pushed.
But I'm being highly critical, both have great tone.

V8

OD1 Squealage, I approve! Didn't know it had enough gain onboard for some squealage. Nice.

I was wondering what cabs you had lying around - I gather plenty.

OD1 Yep, was a sad day man.

Met him a couple times, sweet dude! He was beloved by the guys who worked at GJ. 👍️

OD1

So check this is just the oD channel of the Koch - pretty brutal

OD1

So that was the only high gain example I could find online before I bought the Koch, that aint me though.

I have a 212 that I built think must be like 15 years ago with V30's. Then I bought a el cheapie 412 Laney cab, and replaced the speakers with 4 x 25watt greenback reissues. Wired that one in parallel which gives me 4ohm so I can use it with the Koch. At 16Ohm and mismatch on amp at 8Ohm would have given half the power.

I did mod the cab a bit, made it more sturdy etc. But those mods are just placebo I recon, no massive influence on tone....some may argue but I think dimensions of the cab, volume and speakers are most important. G12M's are good enough for me.

Lol I did however sand the cones and made the surface smoother, and that was the day I got them.....the weirdest feeling ever, sanding brand new speakers....yolo 🙂

JGP

OD1 Lol I did however sand the cones and made the surface smoother, and that was the day I got them.

As the Celestion distributor for SA I have to say that this practice is definitely not recommended and will void the warranty. The same applies to other practices such as treating the cone or surrounds with solvents, physically damaging or "ageing" the suspension or for that matter hitting things with a hammer.

If you really have to have the "original vintage" tone the rather buy a genuine vintage cab or try to source the now discontinued Heritage Greenback speakers.

modulator

Thank you for posting on this amp, I have seen it on their site, and wondered about it. Not a name you run into daily. It does look neat inside.
Enjoy.

OD1

JGP

I'm pretty sure that most modders willing to take sandpaper to R20k worth of speakers know that won't be covered by the warranty......I like modding things, this worked pretty well I don't care about the money and I'm well aware that doing something like that won't be covered by anyone.... and I would assume most people that will try something like this are aware of the risks.

I don't really understand the reply to be honest - I think you could have maybe added something more useful seeing you are the celestion distributor for SA, that the eddie van halen greenbacks G12EVH 20 watts are the heritage greenbacks......or the closest you can get to the heritage greenbacks that was discontinued.

JGP

The intention of my reply is to discourage people who maybe don't have the funds to damage 20K worth of speakers to think twice before attempting something like this.

The G12EVH is identical to the Greenback, just minus the back can. This was not the point of the post.

OD1

My apologies if I misinterpreted your post. I probably should have included not to try it with your own speakers.

The re-issue greenbacks G12M and the G12EVH are not the same though not just the back of the speaker that differs, one is 20watts, one is 25watts, and the EVH is based on the heritage G12M greenback. They have different sensitivity response, ohms (15 vs 16) etc.

Both are great though.

JGP

All good, of course you are right, I meant EVH and Heritage Greenback G12M.

As an aside the re-issue Greenback is now UK made again, no difference in the product but some people prefer the idea of UK production.

OD1

JGP

You're not by any chance associated with profaudio? I would like to at some point try the G12H30's I don't know if you have any experience with these? I do like the G12M's but I want to blend them with some other speakers in the 412, something missing.

As for the UK vs China (i' assuming) made - yeah some think the cones or build quality differs which let them sound different, I don't really mind if there is UK vs China on my speaker to be honest - if it sounds good they can write whatever they want imo.

JGP

Yup, Profaudio indeed.

Are you looking at the G12H Anniversary? If so compared to G12M it has a bit less bottom end warmth and more aggressive mids. Most popular for lead however many like to mix an M and an H in a 2x or even 4x 12 cab. This speaker is not as popular as it used to be, the G12 H Creamback has taken over due to the higher power handling allowing a single cab to do almost the same job as 2 x H Anniversary.

OD1

What would you recommend if I like the greenback sound, but want a smoother lop end?

I find that in a 412 config the G12M's almost have too much bass, might be my cab.

JGP

The Greenback is generally described as having a "restrained" and "smoother" top end. Perhaps it is the upper mids that you are not happy with? They can be very forward and perhaps a bit honky under certain conditions. In a 4x12 cab the bass is known to be warm but a bit loose and uncontrolled. It is very much a rock speaker.

What music are you playing and with which guitar(s)? I see you mention the clean channel on the Koch and clean is not really where the Greenback shines. A single Greenback does not have the power handling for that amp, is this where the 4x12 comes in? As a single speaker option have a look at the Creamback family and for the 4x12 maybe replace 2 Greenbacks with the G12H Anniversary to tighten up the bass end.

V8

JGP I really enjoy your input on all things Speakers @JGP - to most it seems to be dark art, but you seem always to make sense - thanks!

OD1

JGP

Apologies for the super late reply, work has been busy......

So I use the Koch as pedal platform, and my cleans I get with the same method as Andy Timmons which is a Compadre compressor used with a little bit of compression but almost as a clean boost, (sometimes off and just goes to BD2) into a BD2 and I roll the volume almost all the way off, love the cleans to be honest. The G12M's sound great clean.

The guitar Í'm using is a Ibanez ATZ 100 (S-Style guitar), it has 3 "single coil" dimarzio cruizers so between a single coil and medium output humbucker. Yes and that is why I got 4 G12M's to handle power of the Koch and also 412's sound great - never gig or have to transport the 412 so happy with it. The bass really is a problem, it might be the guitar im using, but there is no rule that said the tone controls on a amp start at 12 o'clock so its ok if the bass is at 2 - just not use to have to set bass so low on a amp. I'm def going to have a look at the creambacks or 2 G12H's. Thanks for the advice.

JGP

Just as a completely different suggestion maybe look at the A Type. Kind of a cross between the Celestion Tone and the American tone of the old Fenders.

Here is Celestion's description below
"Inspired by our favourite modern American tones the A-Type is a different kind of guitar speaker from Celestion. Of course it still has the musical and revealing three- dimensional quality that is the heart and soul of a Celestion guitar speaker however it features a more laid-back midrange which reveals body and complexity in the upper register accompanied by full and rounded low frequencies.

The A-Type conveys a fluid even performance with an increased headroom threshold that allows your amp’s tone to shine through. Clean players will love the smooth articulation; for rockers the brooding powerful low end threatens thunder that’s only a heavy riff away!"