Hey & welcome!

I reckon the coolest store to visit in Jozi is "Ronnie's allbang and strumit", pretty much 2nd hand only, such a lovely collection of stuff and they are real knowledgeable.

TOM's would be my 2nd stop and since it's a roadtrip I'd pop into Mitech too. Not sure where else would be interesting for acoustic guitars - might be worth popping up a wanted ad on the SAMIS (facebook group - South African Music Instrument Store) or a enquiry on "Gregory's Garage" (facebook group) about exoctic top guitars.

You have a fairly healthy budget, might even stretch to something locally made? Though a brand name will likely hold it's value better (unless it's a Casimi or Maingard).

Personally as a pure acoustic, you can't beat a Solid Sitka Spruce and Rosewood for tone. It truely sets the standard, and is used on most key acoustic guitars for a reason. That doesn't mean other exotic wood guitars are not great tone wise, just different. I also love the aesthetics of exotic wood guitars, who doesn't? but when it comes to recording, the spruce and rosewoods seem to take pole position more often than not.

Mid to higher end models do seem to be rare and in demand within the 2nd hand community, exotic or not.

Jazzman105 wrote:
You should ideally spend time in music stores and play as many of them as you can...

Exactly! Luckily I am not pressed for time so I intend to do exactly this! Thanks for the help.

Meron Rigas wrote: I reckon the coolest store to visit in Jozi is "Ronnie's allbang and strumit", pretty much 2nd hand only, such a lovely collection of stuff and they are real knowledgeable.

Thanks, hadn't even heard of them before you mentioned it. Will definitely pay a visit.

studmissile wrote: It truely sets the standard, and is used on most key acoustic guitars for a reason. That doesn't mean other exotic wood guitars are not great tone wise, just different.

Agreed. I am willing to be patient in this, and if I don't find anything exotic that I actually like playing I won't invest in it. In that case I'd definitely go for something more conventional.


I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to contribute your opinions. Thanks!

Cheers

studmissile wrote: Personally as a pure acoustic, you can't beat a Solid Sitka Spruce and Rosewood for tone. It truely sets the standard, and is used on most key acoustic guitars for a reason. That doesn't mean other exotic wood guitars are not great tone wise, just different. I also love the aesthetics of exotic wood guitars, who doesn't? but when it comes to recording, the spruce and rosewoods seem to take pole position more often than not.

Mid to higher end models do seem to be rare and in demand within the 2nd hand community, exotic or not.

+1 on this.

i personally own a larrivée lv05 with these specs, although i don't play it much any more. this is due to both an injury that has made larger-bodied instruments a bit of a pain and a recent tokai cat's eye acquisition (smaller in body, but the same tone woods), which is essentially replacing the larrivée as my primary acoustic. regardless, i don't think i'll be selling my larrivée very soon.

that said - what everyone else has said has equal merit:
- shop around as much as you can
- this is a very individual decision
- will you be recording, and to what degree (professional or at home)?
- you're making an investment not only in terms of cash, but in terms of your musical pleasure (could be the make/break of the decision)

that's my $.02
dh|

domhatch wrote:

studmissile wrote: Personally as a pure acoustic, you can't beat a Solid Sitka Spruce and Rosewood for tone. It truely sets the standard, and is used on most key acoustic guitars for a reason. That doesn't mean other exotic wood guitars are not great tone wise, just different. I also love the aesthetics of exotic wood guitars, who doesn't? but when it comes to recording, the spruce and rosewoods seem to take pole position more often than not.

Mid to higher end models do seem to be rare and in demand within the 2nd hand community, exotic or not.

+1 on this.

i personally own a larrivée lv05 with these specs, although i don't play it much any more. this is due to both an injury that has made larger-bodied instruments a bit of a pain and a recent tokai cat's eye acquisition (smaller in body, but the same tone woods), which is essentially replacing the larrivée as my primary acoustic. regardless, i don't think i'll be selling my larrivée very soon.

that said - what everyone else has said has equal merit:
- shop around as much as you can
- this is a very individual decision
- will you be recording, and to what degree (professional or at home)?
- you're making an investment not only in terms of cash, but in terms of your musical pleasure (could be the make/break of the decision)

that's my $.02
dh|

I saw larrivee and I was in! ? if you ever contemplate selling, please hit me up via PM. Owning a larrivee is a dream of mine.. A dream my wife wants to get rid of, but press on I shall! Haha.

I've played some exotic wood guitars, some were cool, some sounded terrible. Guess it all depends on taste and budget. I agree with the rest, start driving and playing...

domhatch wrote: ....... recent tokai cat's eye acquisition (smaller in body, but the same tone woods), which is essentially replacing the larrivée as my primary acoustic

So you got one, great! How about pics and a little review? I played one at the Expo, but couldn't quite appreciate it among the other the noise levels.

studmissile wrote: So you got one, great! How about pics and a little review? I played one at the Expo, but couldn't quite appreciate it among the other the noise levels.

mine is the ce80t. i'll try to take some pics on the w/e and perhaps do a little review as well. try to play it off against the larrivée for perspective.

in the meantime, have a watch of fred's review of the guitar here: dunno what else i'll be able to add, since his was pretty much all-encompassing, but i'll see what i can do.

toodles
dh|

Hi HeinG and all others... ?

I have been around various acoustic guitars for 46 years and have been an avid rescuer of stringed instruments for about as long. OK, two guitars in my collection were acquired 'new', the Ovation and the Ibi F-360BK. I love all my guitars for different reasons because they each have different voices and colours of tone.

I recently went to spend 3 weeks in Perth to visit a friend but took no guitar with me... I was lucky enough to able to borrow a Cole Clarke for the duration of my stay and it has single handedly changed the way I now think of quality acoustic instruments.

I have never played an instrument that was so ALIVE, forgiving and easy to play... AND it sounded spectacular. Bright & crisp but at the same time with a bass that I have never heard in anything before. (There is a reason both Jack Johnson, Ben Harper play them!)

The model I borrowed was a CCFL2EC-BB cutaway and is currently selling in Perth(I went to investigate) for 2k Oz dollars or ZAR 20k. I have decided that I WILL OWN one before I die!

Midi Music (a division of TOMS in Braamfontein) are the local agents... ask them if you can play one before you spend money on anything else.

And HeinG... you are welcome to come and play all my guitars for as long as you like... if you ever are near Bordeaux!

studmissile wrote: Personally as a pure acoustic, you can't beat a Solid Sitka Spruce and Rosewood for tone.

I think that's a little too sweeping. It really depends what tone you want.

My luthier-built Selmer-Maccaferri copy has (as it should) a European spruce top and laminated sides (solid sides make the guitar heavier, and—for this particular design—noticeably less resonant). While normally considered a wood for classical guitars, I've played great steel-string guitars with western red cedar tops. And one acoustic guitar that I would really love to own is an early Gibson L5, with maple sides and a birch back.

And there are plenty of people with very good ears who think a high-end Ovation can't be beaten for tone. I think they're completely deluded, but still... 8)

buttle wrote: "I was lucky enough to able to borrow a Cole Clarke..."

i've heard nothing but good to great things about these as well. again, it comes down to personal preference. (doesn't jack johnson play these? say no more...)

Mike wrote:

studmissile wrote: Personally as a pure acoustic, you can't beat a Solid Sitka Spruce and Rosewood for tone.

I think that's a little too sweeping "referring to spruce top/rosewood back and sides". It really depends what tone you want.

My luthier-built Selmer-Maccaferri copy has (as it should) a European spruce top and laminated sides (solid sides make the guitar heavier, and—for this particular design—noticeably less resonant). While normally considered a wood for classical guitars, I've played great steel-string guitars with western red cedar tops. And one acoustic guitar that I would really love to own is an early Gibson L5, with maple sides and a birch back.

And there are plenty of people with very good ears who think a high-end Ovation can't be beaten for tone. I think they're completely deluded, but still... 8)

have to agree with you on the ovation, mike. but the 'sweeping' statement stud made was, i think, intended as such. perhaps it'd be a good idea to take the spruce/rosewood combo as a diving board, a reference point, and delve from there into the almost innumerable combinations of tops and tone woods available.

anyway. the idea is to get out and shop. and who'd deny anyone - from a soft-fingered beginner to a hard-tipped pro - the pleasure of such a quest? 8)
dh|

Mike wrote:

studmissile wrote: Personally as a pure acoustic, you can't beat a Solid Sitka Spruce and Rosewood for tone.

And there are plenty of people with very good ears who think a high-end Ovation can't be beaten for tone. I think they're completely deluded, but still... 8)

Ovations will always sound like Ovations... all of them. That is why they used them in studios.

Liam de Mérovée wrote: ...an articulate stage performer with an above average built in pre-amp and pickup set.

Actually, this raises an important point—are you looking for an acoustic guitar or an electric/acoustic?

If the guitar is to be a gigging machine that's mostly plugged in then the acoustic performance is a lot less important than the playability, the quality of the electronics and, yes, the appearance. Takamines, for example, have historically had great plugged-in sound and playability, even when they've been less than stellar as pure acoustic instruments.

On the other hand, if you're looking for a pure acoustic, different priorities apply. And if you're somewhere in-between... ?

Thanks for all the feedback!

Seems to me that a common theme to most replies would be to spend time on as many instruments as possible. This advice will be heeded for sure.

domhatch wrote: ... the idea is to get out and shop. and who'd deny anyone - from a soft-fingered beginner to a hard-tipped pro - the pleasure of such a quest? 8)
dh|

domhatch wrote:
that said - what everyone else has said has equal merit:
- shop around as much as you can
- this is a very individual decision
- will you be recording, and to what degree (professional or at home)?
- you're making an investment not only in terms of cash, but in terms of your musical pleasure (could be the make/break of the decision)

that's my $.02
dh|

+1 for the investment in musical pleasure comment. That is a big part of the reason I am shopping.
Probably won't be recording anytime soon, and if I occasionally do it will probably not be professionally.

Mike wrote:

Liam de Mérovée wrote: ...an articulate stage performer with an above average built in pre-amp and pickup set.

Actually, this raises an important point—are you looking for an acoustic guitar or an electric/acoustic?

If the guitar is to be a gigging machine that's mostly plugged in then the acoustic performance is a lot less important than the playability, the quality of the electronics and, yes, the appearance. Takamines, for example, have historically had great plugged-in sound and playability, even when they've been less than stellar as pure acoustic instruments.

On the other hand, if you're looking for a pure acoustic, different priorities apply. And if you're somewhere in-between... ?

So, I generally play plugged in in an informal band setup (church stuff, etc). However, I most commonly practice purely acoustically, so the unplugged sound is a definite consideration. Generally my playstyle is medium strumming with some flatpicking in between.

Question: What am I actually listening for to tell a quality instrument apart from a mediocre one?
I've played a couple of different mid-high end acoustics the past weekend. Some I've liked and some I haven't mostly based on how it sounded as a whole and not really listening specifically for elements in the sound (things like resonance and sustain are pretty easy to hear, though).

Hein

What is you budget BTW?

studmissile wrote: What is you budget BTW?

I can't see myself justifying a buy over R15k. I think if I'm patient I might even get a well looked-after 2nd hand somewhere for slightly less, which would be awesome.

Checking out a Breedlove D20SR in the coming week, so we'll see.

HeinG wrote:

studmissile wrote: What is you budget BTW?

I can't see myself justifying a buy over R15k. I think if I'm patient I might even get a well looked-after 2nd hand somewhere for slightly less, which would be awesome.

Checking out a Breedlove D20SR in the coming week, so we'll see.

Sounds good, don't underestimate a solid Japanese Tak. They still one of the the best bang for buck acoustic guitars IMO.

studmissile wrote:

HeinG wrote:

studmissile wrote: What is you budget BTW?

I can't see myself justifying a buy over R15k. I think if I'm patient I might even get a well looked-after 2nd hand somewhere for slightly less, which would be awesome.

Checking out a Breedlove D20SR in the coming week, so we'll see.

Sounds good, don't underestimate a solid Japanese Tak. They still one of the the best bang for buck acoustic guitars IMO.

2nd hand, or seriously negotiated, these are the only ways to go. the best guitar in my collection sat on the wall at 22, i bought it for 15. this was a long time ago, and it would now cost me around 36/37 to replace.

i haven't played a breedlove before, but have also heard good things about them. and, of course, the takamines have a good rep. i've recently purchased a tokai cat's eye acoustic and i'm seriously impressed. you can check out a review online here: (i think i posted it previously in this thread, apologies if i did...)

in terms of what to look out for, in my humble opinion:
- build quality, first and foremost. you don't want a guitar that's going to fall apart in three or four years, no matter how good it sounds. nooks, crannies, joints, frets, check for lifting and wear, check the fit and finish, have a good look at the detailing, etc
- you'll be able to tell if the thing will hold itself together for a while, especially if it's already a few years old
- of course, distinguish between wear and ageing

in terms of how it sounds:
- it should hold tune well
- you are after good note separation when you strum or pluck a chord, or you'll end up with a muddy sound
- do you want something bright? deep and warm? lots of projection? easy to play? body size and shape will play a part in all of that, and you can research a lot of that online before hitting the streets
- other than that, rely on your ears and your arm hairs (mostly your arm hairs)

in terms of your budget:
i always have, and always will, recommend one thing; play guitars both above and below your budget. you might find something well worth spending that little extra on, on the other hand you might find something that offers an extreme bargain.

good luck, and have fun
dh|

One other point that's worth noting. With an acoustic guitar you, the player, is not hearing the sound that the audience is, as you are behind it. Depending on the architecture of the guitar, this may be more or less significant. So in a perfect world try to hear the guitars you play in the hands of someone else (with a similar playing style to you) or else get up close and personal with a wall, a window or a mirror so as much as possible of the sound coming out of the guitar bounces back at you...

Mike wrote: One other point that's worth noting. With an acoustic guitar you, the player, is not hearing the sound that the audience is, as you are behind it. Depending on the architecture of the guitar, this may be more or less significant. So in a perfect world try to hear the guitars you play in the hands of someone else (with a similar playing style to you) or else get up close and personal with a wall, a window or a mirror so as much as possible of the sound coming out of the guitar bounces back at you...

What he said.

I have a top end Takamine and it sounds great unplugged and even better plugged in. A lot of the sound guys are quite impressed with how easy it is to set me up. The point is that some of the Taylor's, Martin's etc do sound better unplugged but not as lekker plugged in.