Amp choices

bindog

Hey guys n gals

I have been browsing around a fair bit lately for a more advanced amp...

I was looking to get some effects pedals initially for the little orange crush amp I got with my fender bullet... But after spending some time chatting to the very helpful guys at music connection, I'm thinking a modeling amp to experiment with for while might be a more fun and worthwhile purchase...

For Xmas I got a new takamine g440cs nex, and the fender bullet as mentioned, and the amps I'm thinking of are:

Fender mustang II V2
Roland cube 40w I dunno the model
The equivalent Vox option

Does anyone have any thoughts regarding these options???

I play most types of music except heavy metal, and I'm a beginner in comparison to probably everyone here..

Thanks in advance!!

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Josh-Hayes

Alrighty, let's begin...

Quite a few people here swear by the Cubes as good solid state amps. They pop up on Gumtree quite often, (do you do 2nd hand goods?). I myself am not a fan, I have my reasons. :-\

I have played a Mustang II as well, dunno how the V2 model is in comparison to the first gen though, and it blew me away. Nice cleans, and it takes pedals well. A little fizz but that is to be expected at higher volumes. One of the nice things about the Mustang is that you can create your own patches on a PC and upload them to the amp, this allows you to switch through them on the fly.

The equivalent Vox amp would be one of the VT series (the 30w one I think?) they have a 12AX7 tube in the pre-amp section to try and recreate some tube mojo. Vox amps are solid as anything, and the VT series do quite well to create some classic tones. I better stop or the rest of this post is going to be me punting Vox products.

TL;DR:
Cube - Most people like it as a solid practice/gigging amp. Great features for the price.
Mustang - Nice cleans, little fizz. PC customizable patches.
Vox VT30 - Tube driven pre-amp section. Multiple patches. VOX! VOX! VOX!

A few questions:
Are you going to be gigging with the amp? (Jamming with acoustic drums?)
Budget? (If you don't mind sharing that is...)
Would you consider spending a little more on a tube amp? (This is my main question.)

You may want to take a read through this thread: http://www.guitarforum.co.za/amps-speakers-and-valves/advice-needed-for-a-new-gigging-amp/
I was in a similar position to you a while ago.

And this one: http://www.guitarforum.co.za/guitar-gear/buying-your-first-gear-the-smart-way-the-singemonkey-approach/
I know it is not your first gear purchase, but you may find the section on amps helpful.

Good luck.

bindog

Hey josh

Thanks for the response...

To answer your questions

My budget is Max around 5k

I don't mind used but it's a gift from my family, (which they want to purchase) , so new is the only option here

To be honest , I've only been playing for like 6 months, and trying to have as much fun as possible while learning... I would like to gig at some stage when I'm good enough, but right now it's not a major worry for me...

The reason why I looked at the mustang, was because of the modeling, and the ability to plug in my phone to play along, do some recording, and mess around with the presets etc...

I'm not predisposed to fender, I have no idea what I'm doing to be honest!! It was just the option that caught my eye when I was choosing the acoustic...

40W... Is that enough grunt to gig with (in a small pub or open mic session) should the need arise?

Thanks

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GuitarDoge

For around 5k you could find a small valve combo(that can still be loud enough to gig). A valve amp will help your playing immensely because of its responsiveness and tone, and even though it can't do everything a modelling amp can, it will more than likely sound much better.

But thats just my opinion ?

Josh-Hayes

I was also drawn to the Mustang for similar reasons. That is, until I bit the proverbial bullet and went with a 2nd hand Vox AC15. ?

R5000 is a mighty fine budget for what you are looking for. But, (+1 on what GuitarDoge said) you could get tube combo, like a Laney Cub12R.
That said, the 40w Mustang is a great amp, and if you are intent on finding a modeling amp that you can have fun with don't take this as pressure. It is plenty loud for the potential purposes you described.

But don't go on my word alone, wait for a couple of the other guys on the forum to give you their ideas as well.

Cheers.

PS: Never be afraid to get friendly with one of the sales staff or the manager and press for a sweet discount from sticker price. 8) That's something most of us learn the hard way...

Gearhead

The lure of the endless possibilities (that turn out to be not so endless) has drawn many a guitarist away from having one good tone and then spending their time practicing. I for one am still in the spell of versatile but at least I never spent five grand on a silicon excuse-for-an-amp ?

GuitarDoge

You can spend endless hours trying different settings on a modelling amp, but never finding the tone you want to hear.

On a valve amp you turn it on and it's what you want to hear or better.

DaFiz

GuitarDoge wrote: You can spend endless hours trying different settings on a modelling amp, but never finding the tone you want to hear.

I tried the little Vox VT with single 10" speaker and took it back for the VT50 with two 12"s instead, but still fiddled for hours on end and never found what I wanted...
(blame the Tele for it's thin sounding pups :-[)
It simply had too many options and I swopped it for a Fender 212 with way less settings and was immediately satisfied... 8)

I'd also not use the same amp for the acoustic guitar though... I used a little bass amp or the PA ?

AlanRatcliffe

A great example of the range of tones available from one guitar and a decent amp:

=

bindog

Hmmm now that's given me something to think about...

I can get the mustang for around 3700 after discount... Where does that leave me with a tube amp at the same price?

Another concern for me is that I practice late at night and stay in a complex... Will I get the same response at low volume levels from a tube amp that I would from a digital amp?

Money is not necessarily an issue , but I also don't want to blow cash on something that isn't good...

The fiddling around aspect of the modeling amps tempts me (I'm a gadgets fan by nature), but sound quality is very important to me too ( I used to run SQ sound setups in my cars)...

Whether or not I have the skills right now (or will have in the next few months) to appreciate the tone of the tube setup is debatable ...

Meh now I'm confused ...

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Chocklit_Thunda

bindog wrote: Hmmm now that's given me something to think about...

I can get the mustang for around 3700 after discount... Where does that leave me with a tube amp at the same price?

Another concern for me is that I practice late at night and stay in a complex... Will I get the same response at low volume levels from a tube amp that I would from a digital amp?

Money is not necessarily an issue , but I also don't want to blow cash on something that isn't good...

The fiddling around aspect of the modeling amps tempts me (I'm a gadgets fan by nature), but sound quality is very important to me too ( I used to run SQ sound setups in my cars)...

Whether or not I have the skills right now (or will have in the next few months) to appreciate the tone of the tube setup is debatable ...

Meh now I'm confused ...

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3700 can probably get you a good 15W tube amp. As for a this nonsense about never getting good tone from a modeling amp, I own a 65W Ibanez MiMX amp and I have all my tones dialed in and saved as presets.... That natural overdrive and breakup only happens with at higher volumes with a tube amp, my modeling amp on the other hand retains the same characteristics and drive at all volumes. That being said, I agree with Gearhead in not spending that much on a solid state amp... I got mine for R1500 on special...

Buy what you need. If you need an amp for soft practice levels, then a SS might be better...
Perhaps use the 5K to get yourself a nice tube amp and get a small SS with you own cash for late night/indoor practice?

psyx

Ok well my 2c would be that since you are only starting out properly, get a modelling amp, which will help you along your way to finding your style and tone. The models will help you decide whether you like high gain, blues, jazz, rock or whatever. Then in a year, you can go on to buy a low wattage tube amp.

Modelling amps aren't as bad as most guys would have you believe. I myself like cubes for their excellent tone, rugged design and diverse features, however they lack a preset bank and a pc interface.
Next option would by the Fender Mustang II I guess...
You will end up enjoying many hours of musical discovery and blissful tinkering!

GuitarDoge

Chocklit_Thunda wrote:
bindog wrote: Hmmm now that's given me something to think about...

I can get the mustang for around 3700 after discount... Where does that leave me with a tube amp at the same price?

Another concern for me is that I practice late at night and stay in a complex... Will I get the same response at low volume levels from a tube amp that I would from a digital amp?

Money is not necessarily an issue , but I also don't want to blow cash on something that isn't good...

The fiddling around aspect of the modeling amps tempts me (I'm a gadgets fan by nature), but sound quality is very important to me too ( I used to run SQ sound setups in my cars)...

Whether or not I have the skills right now (or will have in the next few months) to appreciate the tone of the tube setup is debatable ...

Meh now I'm confused ...

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3700 can probably get you a good 15W tube amp. As for a this nonsense about never getting good tone from a modeling amp, I own a 65W Ibanez MiMX amp and I have all my tones dialed in and saved as presets.... That natural overdrive and breakup only happens with at higher volumes with a tube amp, my modeling amp on the other hand retains the same characteristics and drive at all volumes. That being said, I agree with Gearhead in not spending that much on a solid state amp... I got mine for R1500 on special...

Buy what you need. If you need an amp for soft practice levels, then a SS might be better...
Perhaps use the 5K to get yourself a nice tube amp and get a small SS with you own cash for late night/indoor practice?

I didn't mean to say that SS=bad. In fact BB King exclusively uses an SS amp as far as I know.

I started off with a Marshall mg which sounded terrible. I didn't realize how bad it's overdrive tone was until I had the lucky opportunity to buy a (very slightly used) tiny terror combo for R2000.

The tiny terror even at the lowest volume had so much more depth of tone, response to dynamics and cleaned up beautifully by rolling down the guitar volume control, that even though the tiny terror is a bare bones amp with only 3 controls and no other features, I was finally happy with the way my guitar playing sounded.

If you're willing and going to spend 4-5k on an amp you can get a valve amp that will sound very good and will sound good even at low volumes, and because of its response to dynamics it will help you improve your playing faster than lots of SS amps.

However if you do want to get a modelling amp now get one cheap(1-3k) so when you want a valve amp you can get a very decent one. And don't get a Marshall MG(which put me off solid-state).

G-Man

I would just buy a small used Roland cube and then save what you have left over when you know more about what you are looking for.

I sold my 20w for R1100 and that thing was build like a tank. I had it for 2 and a half years and it did everything I needed. Then when it didn't I went and bought a 200w amp for gigging.

/2c

AlanRatcliffe

I've been using the modelling stuff for well over a decade now and am really happy with how it's developed. We've come a long way. Then again, there is still nothing like a good valve amp for playing pleasure and to blow up my skirt.

In your situation (leaning towards tweaking and needing something you can play at low volumes), a modelling amp does make sense. Another good thing about the modellers is they allow you to try a bunch of different amp sounds, so that by the time you come to getting your valve amp, you have a better idea of what you really want.

However, also understand it's easier to get good tones from a modeller if you already know how to get good tones from a real valve amp - there is an element of playing the amp as much as the guitar (the video I posted above is a good example of that). Real valve amps also have far fewer distractions from playing/practicing than a modeller with effects built in. Take it from a terminal tweaker, it's easy to get so lost in tweaking that you forget to learn how to play properly. :-[ The biggest downside to the modellers is that most lock you into an upgrade loop, where you are upgrading to the latest greatest version every couple of years and they lose a lot of value the moment a new model comes out. On the other hand, a good valve amp will outlive you and retain a fair amount of it's value (especially if you buy secondhand).

BTW - someone mentioned the fizziness of the Mustangs earlier... Fender have fixed this in the V2 versions. I found the version 1 Mustangs to be a little uninspiring feel-wise but still very good tonally, the new versions have improved on that (although they still have a way to go). Otherwise I have always liked the Vox modelling (but then, they do a better job than most of nailing the Vox tones, which I'm a fan of).

bindog

Firstly, thanks for all the replies people!!!

I did watch the video (which educated me plenty I might add) , so thanks for that! I almost never mess with the little orange amp I have or the tone on my electric... I'm just still trying to make sure my fingers are in the right place lol...

I think I now understand the difference in buying a tube amp vs a solid state and vice versa, which helps a lot...

I think what is luring me to the latter is the learning process of working with the many effects on the mustang/cube variety ( I initially went into the store looking to buy an effects pedal), and the fact that I play solely on my own (my mates who play guitar are never really up for a jam session), so playing along with a tune or looping a backing track and playing a solo over it just seems more fun right now... I know that might seem doff, but I've had so much fun so far I'd love to keep my learning process similar going forward?

The tube option has definitely piqued my interest now, so if I have time (my bday is on the 7th but my family need a directive in the next day or so), I'll go plug in my simple little bullet and give that option a try...

I must say I'm leaning towards solid state currently, but I'll go plug in again, (make all the guys in the shop wince - it's terribly embarrassing), and see what happens...

Any further feedback on this reply?

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AlanRatcliffe

I think you have enough to go on now. The main thing IMO, is to understand there are pros and cons to each approach and know enough about them to make an intelligent decision based on your needs.

Maybe I shouldn't throw this in the ring at this stage, but if the effects and tweakage therof is a a big interest to you then something else to look at would be the modelling multieffect pedals (things like the Boss GTs, Line 6 PODs, Vox Tonelabs, etc.) - most of which have amp and speaker modelling built in, but are a lot more comprehensive on the effects side than the modelling amps. With a decent pair of headphones, they make an excellent quiet practice solution too. The reasons I usually hesitate to push newer players to these devises is the aforementioned "distraction factor" and the fact that when you do play with other people, what you plug it into can make a huge difference to your tones.

GuitarDoge

bindog wrote: Firstly, thanks for all the replies people!!!

I did watch the video (which educated me plenty I might add) , so thanks for that! I almost never mess with the little orange amp I have or the tone on my electric... I'm just still trying to make sure my fingers are in the right place lol...

I think I now understand the difference in buying a tube amp vs a solid state and vice versa, which helps a lot...

I think what is luring me to the latter is the learning process of working with the many effects on the mustang/cube variety ( I initially went into the store looking to buy an effects pedal), and the fact that I play solely on my own (my mates who play guitar are never really up for a jam session), so playing along with a tune or looping a backing track and playing a solo over it just seems more fun right now... I know that might seem doff, but I've had so much fun so far I'd love to keep my learning process similar going forward?

The tube option has definitely piqued my interest now, so if I have time (my bday is on the 7th but my family need a directive in the next day or so), I'll go plug in my simple little bullet and give that option a try...

I must say I'm leaning towards solid state currently, but I'll go plug in again, (make all the guys in the shop wince - it's terribly embarrassing), and see what happens...

Any further feedback on this reply?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

One final piece of advice that I have to offer is to go to a big music store and try out everything you've looked at and anything in your budget; modelling amps, valve amps and multi-effects pedals. You can then properly choose which you like the most. Also, don't be embarrassed about your playing in a music shop, you are bringing income for them, and you can always ask them to show you how it would sound with a more experienced player ?

bindog

Cool thanks guys!! The advice is appreciated... If I can get to music connection today I'm gonna go try some options out, and see where my heart takes me ?

Thanks again and I'll let you know what happens !!

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chris77

Good luck with the search man. Some good advice here from all parties, so not much more to add except that if you're buying new NEVER pay the sticker price. There is always discount to be had but they won't offer it if you don't ask for it ?.