Whatever you can get, but ballpark a thousand per person plus travelling expenses.

It is always good to think in hourly terms imo i.e. how many hours is each member going to be putting in and how much do you feel your time is worth?

Many people do not think about the time you've also had to put in to develop your repertoire, from my experiences.

I often do the resident hotel musician gigs and i know hotels especially the better ones have an entertaiment budget ..... So find out who played there last year and ask em what they got .... add 10% and you sorted ... confirm they will give you accomodation and meals .... Hotels are happy to pay what they used to, so if its within reason of last years budget they readily sign it off .

R1000/hour plus a meal ,drink and accommodation, make sure you get it in writing , negotiate if a 6 month contract stability is key.

gavin taitz wrote: R1000/hour plus a meal ,drink and accommodation, make sure you get it in writing , negotiate if a 6 month contract stability is key.

Not in a million years will they go for that.

Keira WitherKay wrote: I often do the resident hotel musician gigs and i know hotels especially the better ones have an entertaiment budget ..... So find out who played there last year and ask em what they got .... add 10% and you sorted ... confirm they will give you accomodation and meals .... Hotels are happy to pay what they used to, so if its within reason of last years budget they readily sign it off .

This.

gavin taitz wrote: R1000/hour plus a meal ,drink and accommodation, make sure you get it in writing , negotiate if a 6 month contract stability is key.

And insist they remove the brown M & M's too

IceCreamMan wrote:

gavin taitz wrote: R1000/hour plus a meal ,drink and accommodation, make sure you get it in writing , negotiate if a 6 month contract stability is key.

And insist they remove the brown M & M's too

I thought that was just a thing and didn't have to be stated ?

Chocklit_Thunda wrote:

IceCreamMan wrote:

gavin taitz wrote: R1000/hour plus a meal ,drink and accommodation, make sure you get it in writing , negotiate if a 6 month contract stability is key.

And insist they remove the brown M & M's too

I thought that was just a thing and didn't have to be stated ?

You have to state a colour. That way you know if they've read the contract properly.

Keira's voice of experience speaking - great approach. You're not being wildly optimistic or trying to fleece them, but you're not selling yourself (and every following musician) short.

Some people really can take the Mickey. A group of us recently did two 3-night runs of a rock tribute show. One audience member was sold out on having us play his upcoming birthday bash, wanting the whole set. A little back-and-forth chatting between both parties later, and it seems that he was hoping to get it for a couple of hundred / a few boxes of chocolates.

Hmmm, so that's seven musos setting up everything, doing a 28 number performance, packing everything up afterwards - not including transport or anything else and you want it for a few hundred bucks plus chocolates...



He's going with someone else. They must really need the Cadbury's.

I hear a lot of people from various businesses in my area moaning about how they can't get customers to pay what their services/products are worth. Funny thing is, this is usually part of a preamble to asking me to supply my services for next to nothing. ?

Arno West wrote:

gavin taitz wrote: R1000/hour plus a meal ,drink and accommodation, make sure you get it in writing , negotiate if a 6 month contract stability is key.

Not in a million years will they go for that.

We get a great gig, hope for a good slot in amongst a great line up, and we get paid what we deserve at the end. We walk with some cash, we've had a f*****g great time and we've been noticed and gained some fans.
And in amongst this we realise that we have grown.

Banditman wrote: Keira's voice of experience speaking - great approach. You're not being wildly optimistic or trying to fleece them, but you're not selling yourself (and every following musician) short.

Some people really can take the Mickey. A group of us recently did two 3-night runs of a rock tribute show. One audience member was sold out on having us play his upcoming birthday bash, wanting the whole set. A little back-and-forth chatting between both parties later, and it seems that he was hoping to get it for a couple of hundred / a few boxes of chocolates.

Hmmm, so that's seven musos setting up everything, doing a 28 number performance, packing everything up afterwards - not including transport or anything else and you want it for a few hundred bucks plus chocolates...



He's going with someone else. They must really need the Cadbury's.

Good on you mate!! If they're not prepared to pay, don't play. I wonder, who is the numb-nut that eventually took the gig? Probably a buddie of their's who's going to "DJ" through a mini Hi-fi by using his i-Pod. Gonna be a rockin' party man!!

Arno West wrote:

Banditman wrote: Keira's voice of experience speaking - great approach. You're not being wildly optimistic or trying to fleece them, but you're not selling yourself (and every following musician) short.

Some people really can take the Mickey. A group of us recently did two 3-night runs of a rock tribute show. One audience member was sold out on having us play his upcoming birthday bash, wanting the whole set. A little back-and-forth chatting between both parties later, and it seems that he was hoping to get it for a couple of hundred / a few boxes of chocolates.

Hmmm, so that's seven musos setting up everything, doing a 28 number performance, packing everything up afterwards - not including transport or anything else and you want it for a few hundred bucks plus chocolates...



He's going with someone else. They must really need the Cadbury's.

Good on you mate!! If they're not prepared to pay, don't play. I wonder, who is the numb-nut that eventually took the gig? Probably a buddie of their's who's going to "DJ" through a mini Hi-fi by using his i-Pod. Gonna be a rockin' party man!!

great example above of what happens a lot in music industry /performance world.....well for ages now the "price" one puts to live music in SA has been driven down significantly by the "part timers" meaning the guys and girls who have day jobs and undercut the pro rate significantly to get gigs.....

and before everyone hits the roof.....it's NOT that part timers should not be able to do gigs..... BUT there should be some price guidelines ....followed by all....

and again this is NOT such a huge problem in many other countries because of stronger music unions who may not set exact prices but there are guidelines that are in place....for goodness sake all our others workers strike for basic wage increases but in music biz, you can offer what you like......

but as Arno said above.... i too personally know of more than a handful of part time muso's who approach venues and gig a whole band for what a solo artist should be earning ....... and i'm talking silly money....thankfully i do lots of gigs for hotels who kind of offer a set basic and negotiate around that ....Sun City entertainment dept WILL NEVER offer you R1500 plus a meal for a 4 piece band ....they respect musicians as being professionals ..and the same with many other international hotels

but outside the "international" hotels it's a free market to the point of exploitation because part timers drive the prices down ...

and i don't blame the venues they will pay the least they can for live music but i do blame the part timers who are willing to gig for a meal and 2 cases of beer ....

so yes NO unions to enforce this ...but a word to part timers ...by all means gig where ever you can and get a venue to hire you BUT just set realistic rates to your services..... cos whether you intend it or not these actions are keeping prices of bands real low in SA ....

anyway on the other hand think how much more whiskey/gear/golf clubs you can buy if you charge more ?


and lastly .... door deals are a great idea ..... put R50/R100/R150 on the door at venues you perform at ....that way if you draw a crowd you make serious money ...... BUT insist that you have someone collect money .... so if you popular your fans will support you and pay to see you ...


anyway i saw a post do the rounds on fb a while back where a wedding band had their quote querried by a client for being too high....and the band leader sent an email back saying "please phone your local plumber ask him to send 4 plummers around for 3 hours on a saturday evening.... and my band will perform for HALF of what they quote ......

Good comment Keira - no guidelines = free for all
Its a jungle out there!

That's why we took a measured approach to it. We know we'd never get back the cost of all the hours of practice, travel to practice etc. but who does apart from the big name pros? So we accept that as part of the admission price for doing something part time that we love. But we're not going to sell it short for the sake of standing on a stage, and that's because most of us have friends who are full-time musicians.

I

I agree too many musos have sold themselves short and i wish all musos could get together and go on strike, i wonder what would happen. Maybe hire a huge stadium and have a jam out with media coverage like some political party. We could be the music party ?

gavin taitz wrote: I agree too many musos have sold themselves short and i wish all musos could get together and go on strike, i wonder what would happen. Maybe hire a huge stadium and have a jam out with media coverage like some political party. We could be the music party ?

If we all get together, with media coverage, for a jam....who's gonna pay us, or would it be a 'free gig'?...O no, we have to pay for the stadium, so we'll pay to perform ???....opens up a whole new can o'worms... ?