Hi everyone,
Got the new set of Rocksongs installed. Got the guitar back last night and they sound killer! Love the zebra color scheme, they looks so vintage! The Rocksong is the best set, and I have Generators and Alnico 4's too. Especially in the bridge, which is perfect for soloing and brings out a nice fat midrange tone. R500 for the set! You cannot go wrong!
Belinda.

Thanks to another forum member, I managed to get hold of a set of Toneriders too! Haven't got them fitted in anything yet, and not sure what to even fit them too, but at the price I thought why not! So, I got a Zebra pair of Generator Bridge, and Rocksong neck.

Apparently, I got the last of the bridge generators of any colour! So if anyones after generators, tough look. You snooze, you loose! ?

Cheers
G!

Big G wrote: Apparently, I got the last of the bridge generators of any colour! So if anyones after generators, tough look. You snooze, you loose! ?

Yes, you got the last generator full set. I asked Andre, the guy from Tonerider. He didn't say it was you specifically, but that the last set had been sold.
I've looked at his pickup guide on the website and made my own set up. I got a generator neck pickup (8K) and a alnico IV neck pickup (7.9K). I'm picking up at the post office this afternoon and installing tonight.
Will let u know how it sounds!
José

I sent a request to Andre 6 weeks ago for a set of Zebra Generators but he couldn't fill it because he was abroad! Anyway time marched on as it does and I missed them.
So I am looking at a set of Rocksongs.
From what you guys are saying they would be great for my lead work, but would they handle the fast and heavy rythm stuff?
{He has single Generator neck pups as well}

Yeeha!
Ordered two Rocksong Zebra sets from London to be delivered in Vereeniging, completed the EFT yesterday morning . . . and they were picked up at the post office this afternoon, 24 hours later!
Now That's what I call customer service! ?

To anyone out there, these pups are VERY good. They're very popular here in the UK too!

Hammeron wrote: I sent a request to Andre 6 weeks ago for a set of Zebra Generators but he couldn't fill it because he was abroad! Anyway time marched on as it does and I missed them.
So I am looking at a set of Rocksongs.
From what you guys are saying they would be great for my lead work, but would they handle the fast and heavy rythm stuff?
{He has single Generator neck pups as well}

They're loose and mushy. You'll probably have better luck with the A4s. You don't need high output pups for brutals, in fact I'd say that relatively neutral, although tight (usually anisotropic alnico, 4, 5, and 8 or ceramic), works better.

I bought a set of A4s. They're a good wind, although a bit hot in the neck. Going to put a narrow A3 in the neck to smooth things out a bit and an A8 in the bridge for some tight thunk. I suppose with similar magnets, the Rocksong might have been a better set, but I'm fond of lower output pups.

This is from my experience when swapping from some stock pups to a high output dimarzio and SD..

MikeM wrote: They're loose and mushy!

???
I suppose everyone has their view and perception of pickups! This is why we love them right? It's an ongoing quest! :? I have a set of the alnico 2 Rocksongs in an Epi Les paul and their kickin' just fine. Nice fat midrange in the bridge and very creamy neck pickup. Great combo to my ears!

I installed my Toneriders into an old 70's Gibson SG Standard last night, and I must say its a major upgrade. The zebras also look mighty cool, like someone mentioned here. I put a generator neck into the bridge position and an alnico 4 neck into the neck position. I was taking a chance since they didn't have any more generator bridge pups and I've read a lot about lower output pickups actually sounding better in the bridge position than high output ones. So it was a bit of a mind shift for me.

Anyway, the combination turned out to be killer. I am actually very surprised with the bridge sound. It doesn't have the heavy compressed thudding low end like the Generator bridge I have in another guitar, but it has a much more even and clear tone, and works really well with my GT8. I have done a few tweaks on the EQ and I think for solos this baby actually have a much clearer and articulate voice than the generator bridge and its great for my rhythms too. HUH, now I sound like I know what I'm talking about! :?

Don't need to say much about the neck pup - it's killer! Clear, nice warm tone, clean highs, big bottom.

I just think that these pups are absolutely unbeatable, considering I paid R500.00 for the full set.

Thanks for the initial info Belinda! ?

Agree with born2burn!
Rocksongs not loose and mushy IMHO . . however its personal taste!

My question this morning is:
Is there anyone here other than born2burn who has installed humbuckers meant for the neck position into the bridge position? I mean, its just a pickup right? And the main difference is the dc resistance and magnet right? Reason I'm asking is I've had a look at the Tonerider specs on the SA website and since the Alnico 4 set (for instance) has a 8.6K bridge and 7.9K neck, its so close that one should be able to swop out the bridge pup with a generator neck (with stronger alnico 5 magnet) right?

Just need some more info cause I'm leaning this way too and I wanna get some before they're all gone!

You guys obviously aren't playing very heavy stuff. Hammeron asked "would they handle the fast and heavy rythm stuff?".

What's soft and mushy to some is smooth, round and creamy to others - you can't get much smoother and rounder than the Rocksongs. This is not something that's down to taste, it's objectively true. Isotropic magnets have a softer or slower attack than anisotropic. Easy as that. It might just be that you're not able to compare directly, so the two of you might not be able to pick up these nuances. I bought a set BECAUSE they are loose and round - they just lacked the top end detail for me.

Nowadays, often pickups are assymetrically wound. However no one will be able to tell the difference between a 7.9k and 8k pickup and most would be hard pressed to even hear the difference between a 8k and 8.5k. Even if the hot coil is on the wrong side, it'll sound fine.

There's more to a pickups tone than just the wind, and there's more to a pickups output than just the magnet.

dan77 wrote: I mean, its just a pickup right? And the main difference is the dc resistance and magnet right?

The spacing of the poles may be different, too

I'm even thinking Generator Neck in bridge AND neck positions - could be a nice setup with the alnico 5 magnets? ???

Going into a LP?

Most humbucker pickups can be used in bridge or neck with no problems. Some, like Lollar will wind a neck pickup differently to the bridge, but even those can be used in any position. I've often moved neck pickups to bridge and popped something even lower powered in the neck.

Pickups with staggered or magnetically calibrated rods are a different story, but those are mostly single coils...

A2 pickups are comparatively "soft" or smoother sounding compared to A4 or A5, but I personally wouldn't go as far as to call them mushy.

does anyone have a webpage that explains the inner workings of pickups ? i mean like how an A2 magnet will sound as to a A5 magnet vs overwound etc etc ?

RJN wrote: does anyone have a webpage that explains the inner workings of pickups ? i mean like how an A2 magnet will sound as to a A5 magnet vs overwound etc etc ?

Just Google it. Some guys spend their lives learning about it. I have entire books on the topic, but it gets real deep real fast. To really understand it you have to go deep into magnetics and the interaction of the pickups as part of a circuit.

This will give you an idea but there are many variables

Attila where did you find that? I'd say that's pretty different from my experience.

Firstly I often swap from A2 to A3, as A3 has less bass and a bit more treble. Also A2s usually sound very middy to me as well. A8 has a significant thunk in the bottom end and does not have more treble than an A5 from my experience.

However it might be argued that we are dealing with different alloys of these magnets, A4 being the one that can vary the most. I emailed Jon at Throbak as he also said that A2s sound scooped and he mentioned this. Then we can also debate what bass, mids and treble are. Lastly, these might be comparisons at different winds. A low wound A2 mid be scooped and have a wonderful high end (Then again, it'd lose a significant amount of bass).

Curious, very curious indeed.

Here's Jon's (A winder I seriously admire) list, which is also different from my experience.

A2 long / Scooped mids, chimey highs, warm sweet tones, loose feel.
A2 short / Scooped mids, spankier tone than long A2.
A3 long / Very weak, nice clarity for use in P-90's but very low output for P.A.F.'s.
A4 long / Balanced mids, treble and low end, drier toned than A2.
A5 long oriented / mid dominant, focused tone, jazzy cleans.
A5 short oriented / mid dominant tone, fatter toned than long oriented A5.
A5 long unoriented (Illinois) / Great low end clarity with good mids.
A5 long unoriented )(Indiana) / Less low end clarity more treble snarl, good mids.

Mike I cant remember it was a long time ago as you say one can argue the point until the cows come home due to the variables.


However, Mike seeing as you are the most experienced resident winder, your experience speaks volumes. +10000

Bought a set of IV's bridge and neck for a project that I am working on. (had to go for the zebra). Will let you know what they sound like in a hollow body when I fit them.