I'm considering to buy a valve amp. I've listened to both, what do u guys think? I like the Hughes, but my friend says the mesa is better? And last night I read that the hughes is a Hybrid, what is the pros and cons with a hybrid ???
Mesa Boogie Express 550 VS Hughes & Kettner Switchblade 50 HELP!
Hi
Hughes is comparable to a Line 6 Spider Valve - it doeas modelling with valve aid so to speak - Mesa is a straight 2 channel valve amp
VV
Hughes is comparable to a Line 6 Spider Valve - it doeas modelling with valve aid so to speak - Mesa is a straight 2 channel valve amp
VV
It depends. If the Hughes has solid state transistors(F.E.T'S) for the output power stage then that's not good for me...but if it has solid state rectifier and the rest all valve then that's ok with me. Solid state rect. will produce
a more harsh/hard type of tone with some raw crunch....
you need to do some research on the circuit design.
.....between a hybrid and a pure valve amp, I would choose the mesa any day.....
+1 on the Mesa, it is tonally versatile yet real tube stuff. 8)
drool , mesa . i want one ......... loud enough to blow the pantys of woman
Mine reminds me every time I play it, that I need to practice more. It cannot be the amp... The true downside of GAS.
??????Vintage Vibe wrote: Hughes is comparable to a Line 6 Spider Valve - it doeas modelling with valve aid so to speak - Mesa is a straight 2 channel valve amp
It's an all-valve amp with four programmable channels saveable in 150+ patches - i.e. you can save your knob settings and recall them later via patches like a digital modeller, but it is NOT a digital modeller, neither is it a hybrid like a Spider valve - basically a Pod 2 in front of valve power amp. It is basically taking MIDI channel switching (which is a feature of many valve amp heads) to the next level by also making the channels programmable with the ability to recall settings later. Yes it has 4 digital DSP effects built in, but that does not make it a digital amp - that's like calling a Marshall Vintage Modern a modeller because it has digital reverb instead of spring reverb. Basically it gives you the convenience of a modelling amp without actually being a modelling amp, which ups it versatility greatly. It is a real valve amp with no amp modelling involved in producing the tone, only in managing the channel switching and effects.
If you're doing covers or need to cover a lot of sonic territory but want real valve tone the Switchblade is a great choice.
The MESA is also a great amp, but it is obviously more limited in tonal variety yet still capable of a lot of different tonal flavours compared to a lot of the amps out there. If you like the tone (which is very, very nice) go for it!
BTW, I have no affiliation with Hughes & Kettner, but I do like to make sure that any incorrect descriptions which may mislead a fellow guitarist are corrected - no offense VV! ?
ok, I'm gonna be a bit bias here and +1 for the mesa
the expresses are really nice, you don't quite get the aggression of the dual rec on it though but the tone is there, clean channels are very MB lonestar-esque... very versatile for gigs and home jamming because of the 5w/50w switch... I play my DR at 50w live and its more than enough.
switchblade is a full valve amp with digital and modelling effects, its not bad but why replicate when you can buy the real thing...
the expresses are really nice, you don't quite get the aggression of the dual rec on it though but the tone is there, clean channels are very MB lonestar-esque... very versatile for gigs and home jamming because of the 5w/50w switch... I play my DR at 50w live and its more than enough.
switchblade is a full valve amp with digital and modelling effects, its not bad but why replicate when you can buy the real thing...
6 days later
Quote:
"It's an all-valve amp with four programmable channels saveable in 150+ patches - i.e. you can save your knob settings and recall them later via patches like a digital modeller, but it is NOT a digital modeller, neither is it a hybrid like a Spider valve - basically a Pod 2 in front of valve power amp. It is basically taking MIDI channel switching (which is a feature of many valve amp heads) to the next level by also making the channels programmable with the ability to recall settings later. Yes it has 4 digital DSP effects built in, but that does not make it a digital amp - that's like calling a Marshall Vintage Modern a modeller because it has digital reverb instead of spring reverb. Basically it gives you the convenience of a modelling amp without actually being a modelling amp, which ups it versatility greatly. It is a real valve amp with no amp modelling involved in producing the tone, only in managing the channel switching and effects."
Sorry about the phrasing, that comment came out a bit ambiguous and rushed (too much work these days !)
I meant the LINE 6 does the modelling with "valve aid" - not the H & K !
The Line 6 Spider Valve AND the Switchblade BOTH have a full compliment of pre & power valves - the Switch uses MIDI switching & DIGITAL effects, whilst the Line 6 integrates preamp & effect modelling into a full valve compliment - any objections ?
The point of my comment was to put someone who seemed "less experienced" (because of the question which I thought drew an unfair comparison - 2 different amps functionally) in a quick sonic/functionality ballpark without confusing him with an overly-technical response (something I think this forum suffers from at the moment - academia obsession !) ?
I think the description of the Spider Valve being pasically a "POD 2 in front of a valve power section" is far more inaccurate, since the Spider Valve has preamp valves too ?
The MIDI fuctionality is also very unusual for most LOCALLY available brands of amp, especially valve, hence why I didn't want to get into it too heavily - I tend to be more of the "shrt & sweet" kind of guy !
PS - As a salesman, selling one brand over the other would be of no benefit or disafvantage to me - I have been jamming on both amps lately (actually the Switchblade 100 watt combo) and loved elements of both - I think the Spider Valve does the Heavy MESA/stereotype thing better, but I LOVE the SB's crunch channel voicing ! Hmmm - temptation ... ?
VV
"It's an all-valve amp with four programmable channels saveable in 150+ patches - i.e. you can save your knob settings and recall them later via patches like a digital modeller, but it is NOT a digital modeller, neither is it a hybrid like a Spider valve - basically a Pod 2 in front of valve power amp. It is basically taking MIDI channel switching (which is a feature of many valve amp heads) to the next level by also making the channels programmable with the ability to recall settings later. Yes it has 4 digital DSP effects built in, but that does not make it a digital amp - that's like calling a Marshall Vintage Modern a modeller because it has digital reverb instead of spring reverb. Basically it gives you the convenience of a modelling amp without actually being a modelling amp, which ups it versatility greatly. It is a real valve amp with no amp modelling involved in producing the tone, only in managing the channel switching and effects."
Sorry about the phrasing, that comment came out a bit ambiguous and rushed (too much work these days !)
I meant the LINE 6 does the modelling with "valve aid" - not the H & K !
The Line 6 Spider Valve AND the Switchblade BOTH have a full compliment of pre & power valves - the Switch uses MIDI switching & DIGITAL effects, whilst the Line 6 integrates preamp & effect modelling into a full valve compliment - any objections ?
The point of my comment was to put someone who seemed "less experienced" (because of the question which I thought drew an unfair comparison - 2 different amps functionally) in a quick sonic/functionality ballpark without confusing him with an overly-technical response (something I think this forum suffers from at the moment - academia obsession !) ?
I think the description of the Spider Valve being pasically a "POD 2 in front of a valve power section" is far more inaccurate, since the Spider Valve has preamp valves too ?
The MIDI fuctionality is also very unusual for most LOCALLY available brands of amp, especially valve, hence why I didn't want to get into it too heavily - I tend to be more of the "shrt & sweet" kind of guy !
PS - As a salesman, selling one brand over the other would be of no benefit or disafvantage to me - I have been jamming on both amps lately (actually the Switchblade 100 watt combo) and loved elements of both - I think the Spider Valve does the Heavy MESA/stereotype thing better, but I LOVE the SB's crunch channel voicing ! Hmmm - temptation ... ?
VV
6 days later
LOL quote: Vintage Vibe "the Heavy MESA/stereotype thing ..."
"don't hate the player....hate the game...." ?
"don't hate the player....hate the game...." ?
VV: Points taken and agreed....mostly ? I understand the point of you comment and accept it 100%.
As for the Spider Valve....well, I don't quite agree. I'm not trying to be deliberately overly academic (I do agree that many replies on GFSA, including many of my posts in retrospect, are just that) or to be obtuse or to confuse lesser experienced GFSA members. I'm just interested in the truth of the matter. Should anyone search "Spider Valve" in future and read under this topic and get incorrect information, we wouldn't be doing our part as experienced GFSA members, would we?
Here's a quote from Guitar Player Mag's review which helps explain it:"Your guitar signal first hits an analog-to-digital converter, a DSP, and then a digital-to-analog converter. So it’s not a tube front-end per se—rather, the two 12AX7’s prepare your guitar’s signal for the dual 5881 output stage..."
What are the significance of the preamp valves and do they add as much to the tone as the output valves? That is debatable, but most would venture that the output valves do more to make the tone "valve-amp like" than the preamp valves. But really, that can be a long and complicated debate that we probably shouldn't get into.
I'm sure you understand all of this already - like I said, this is for the benefit of the uninformed.
As for the Line 6 Spider Valve itself, I think it's a very good amp, considering the price and features and while I wouldn't buy one I can see - and hear - why it's a popular amp that appeals to so many people. I have no problem recommending it!
As for the Spider Valve....well, I don't quite agree. I'm not trying to be deliberately overly academic (I do agree that many replies on GFSA, including many of my posts in retrospect, are just that) or to be obtuse or to confuse lesser experienced GFSA members. I'm just interested in the truth of the matter. Should anyone search "Spider Valve" in future and read under this topic and get incorrect information, we wouldn't be doing our part as experienced GFSA members, would we?
It uses POD 2.0 Technology according to Line 6, and is basically a POD 2 in front of a valve power amp, or, for the sake of accuracy: a cut-down POD 2.0 in front of a clean all-valve amp. Yes it, has preamp valves in addition to the output valves, but they are not heavily involved in the tone generation besides creating a good clean base for the POD digital amp modelling to produce the tone.Vintage Vibe wrote: I think the description of the Spider Valve being pasically a "POD 2 in front of a valve power section" is far more inaccurate, since the Spider Valve has preamp valves too ?
Here's a quote from Guitar Player Mag's review which helps explain it:"Your guitar signal first hits an analog-to-digital converter, a DSP, and then a digital-to-analog converter. So it’s not a tube front-end per se—rather, the two 12AX7’s prepare your guitar’s signal for the dual 5881 output stage..."
What are the significance of the preamp valves and do they add as much to the tone as the output valves? That is debatable, but most would venture that the output valves do more to make the tone "valve-amp like" than the preamp valves. But really, that can be a long and complicated debate that we probably shouldn't get into.
I'm sure you understand all of this already - like I said, this is for the benefit of the uninformed.
As for the Line 6 Spider Valve itself, I think it's a very good amp, considering the price and features and while I wouldn't buy one I can see - and hear - why it's a popular amp that appeals to so many people. I have no problem recommending it!
The line 6 models the Mesa and sounds crap...
...The Mesa can also do modeling...of the MESA and it sounds great.
I'm sold.
...The Mesa can also do modeling...of the MESA and it sounds great.
I'm sold.
a month later
I'ver played a Lonestar, Mark II, I have a H&K Duotone and recently picked up the H&K Switchblade.
The only reason I got the Switchblade is that it has a smaller footprint, is more versatile, has built in effects and can dial in almost every tone from shimmery cleans to all out heavy distortions. Ease in travle, be it in a bus, trucking or on a plane, I want small and potent!
The Switchblade also lets each guitar shine thru and the EQ section is not forgiving. On some amps, especially hybrids or modeling amps, every guitar sounds the same.
Each guitar I have has to be EQ'd to the Switchblade. While some may think this is a lot of work, it actually shows that the amp isn't masking the tone at ALL, you get what the guitar sounds like and you dial it in from there.
The effects are also very nice, not boutique, but very serviceable and will work fine in almost every scenario. The only thing that is missing is a wah wah pedal.
The DuoTone is a beast, great 2 channel sound, plus the boost and master 2 switches that allow for a *real* volume boost for solos. Unfortunately, it's not as versatile as I would have liked given the gigs I do. It's nice to not have to bring a full pedal board with a couple of distortion boxes, a delay, a reverb and a modulation pedal. Bring my wireless, plug it in and go.
The Mesa? Two trick pony. Played a gig with a band when their guitar player got sick at the beginning of the night, so I subbed in on his rig. It was ok and a good tone, but it needed a full boat of pedals to get by and I'm tryin to get away from that.
Word is that H&K is working on a new pedal design with more features than the board that ships with the Switchblade now. Shold be 60 days or so from what I am hearing, but I can't wait to get my hands on it. First thing I did with my pedal is rewire the pedal end so that it's midi cable plug on both sides, not permanently attached on the pedal side.
I'm going to try it with some different tubes too, see if it makes a difference, given the way this amp works, I'm not sure it would... but I've got a great tube amp guy here in New England, so a few hours on his bench is worth it to me.
I'm looking at a second Switchblade to leave in the studio.
The only reason I got the Switchblade is that it has a smaller footprint, is more versatile, has built in effects and can dial in almost every tone from shimmery cleans to all out heavy distortions. Ease in travle, be it in a bus, trucking or on a plane, I want small and potent!
The Switchblade also lets each guitar shine thru and the EQ section is not forgiving. On some amps, especially hybrids or modeling amps, every guitar sounds the same.
Each guitar I have has to be EQ'd to the Switchblade. While some may think this is a lot of work, it actually shows that the amp isn't masking the tone at ALL, you get what the guitar sounds like and you dial it in from there.
The effects are also very nice, not boutique, but very serviceable and will work fine in almost every scenario. The only thing that is missing is a wah wah pedal.
The DuoTone is a beast, great 2 channel sound, plus the boost and master 2 switches that allow for a *real* volume boost for solos. Unfortunately, it's not as versatile as I would have liked given the gigs I do. It's nice to not have to bring a full pedal board with a couple of distortion boxes, a delay, a reverb and a modulation pedal. Bring my wireless, plug it in and go.
The Mesa? Two trick pony. Played a gig with a band when their guitar player got sick at the beginning of the night, so I subbed in on his rig. It was ok and a good tone, but it needed a full boat of pedals to get by and I'm tryin to get away from that.
Word is that H&K is working on a new pedal design with more features than the board that ships with the Switchblade now. Shold be 60 days or so from what I am hearing, but I can't wait to get my hands on it. First thing I did with my pedal is rewire the pedal end so that it's midi cable plug on both sides, not permanently attached on the pedal side.
I'm going to try it with some different tubes too, see if it makes a difference, given the way this amp works, I'm not sure it would... but I've got a great tube amp guy here in New England, so a few hours on his bench is worth it to me.
I'm looking at a second Switchblade to leave in the studio.
I played on both again. The mesa is overprised and I agree, It's got this "hissing" sound you can't eq out. Thanx for the input guys! And remember not 2 stereotype amarican products ?
Just for interest, Mesa's origins lie in a business that began by hot-rodding Fender amps. Carlos Santana was an early customer and I think he played one of these hot-rodded Fenders at Woodstock. I think things eventually got to the point where the hot-rodding left very little of the original amp behind so the logical step was to just build the things from scratch (also meant you didn't have to buy an amp from somebody else first and incorporate their markup into your pricing).MoJo JoJoe wrote: Mesa amps are built the way I'd like to have things done - ie very well. That said, I think the tones on the Express range leave a lot to be desired. Decent clean (buy a Fender and do a notch up in cleans and a notch down in price), but the distortions have a horrible fizzy quality that I just couldn't dial out. I prefer the Lonestar Special but that's not the same price range.
May I offer a contrary view here. I was fortunate enough to have a Mesa Boogie Express 5:50 2X12 on loan for a couple of days. At the same time I had My fender Hot Rod Deluxe <with the Vintage 30 speaker, the Texas red version> to compare to and had a fender Supersonic 1X12 combo as well for a day as comparison. I used the Supersonic on the Bassman channel as my clean all the time.
From the outset the Express was noisy <hiss> on the clean but doing some research it seems that the culprit usually is one of the pre amp valves <and that seems to be a common fault>. I had the preamp valve replaced <cannot remember which one it was unfortunately> but after that the Express was no more noisier than the Supersonic or Hot rod Deluxe.
Then to the tone. Again research showed that dialing in a good tone on a Mesa takes a bit of work and the tone controls interact with each other differently to most amplifiers <reading the manual which is very good afterward also confirmed that, I should have read it before ?>. Anyway based on magazine reviews/ suggestions and playing with the EQ settings as suggested by guys on you tube and the forums I was achieving a tone as good as any of the Fenders <clean that is>. The key to the Express is that 1) The keep the base control in the first half of the travel i.e. below 11 o clock if possible and 2) Always switch in the Contour.
Without the contour in, and with all controls at 12 o clock the clean was rather flat, turning the base down to about 10 o clock and switching in the contour and adjusting the contour above 12 o clock to taste just added sparkle and life.
The Mesa clean voice on channel 1 just loved pedals as well <I use a Fulltone OCD and a Radial Tonebone>.
The Mesa blues voice on channel two is the warmest channel on the Express and again use Contour with that and control the base and the hair will stand up on your arms. Gives a breaking up fender a run for its money <and I love Fender by the way>. Its seems that many Express users use the Blues voice on channel two as their clean and the Crunch voice on channel one as their lead voice, try that
So don't discount the Mesa
Regards
Mike
From the outset the Express was noisy <hiss> on the clean but doing some research it seems that the culprit usually is one of the pre amp valves <and that seems to be a common fault>. I had the preamp valve replaced <cannot remember which one it was unfortunately> but after that the Express was no more noisier than the Supersonic or Hot rod Deluxe.
Then to the tone. Again research showed that dialing in a good tone on a Mesa takes a bit of work and the tone controls interact with each other differently to most amplifiers <reading the manual which is very good afterward also confirmed that, I should have read it before ?>. Anyway based on magazine reviews/ suggestions and playing with the EQ settings as suggested by guys on you tube and the forums I was achieving a tone as good as any of the Fenders <clean that is>. The key to the Express is that 1) The keep the base control in the first half of the travel i.e. below 11 o clock if possible and 2) Always switch in the Contour.
Without the contour in, and with all controls at 12 o clock the clean was rather flat, turning the base down to about 10 o clock and switching in the contour and adjusting the contour above 12 o clock to taste just added sparkle and life.
The Mesa clean voice on channel 1 just loved pedals as well <I use a Fulltone OCD and a Radial Tonebone>.
The Mesa blues voice on channel two is the warmest channel on the Express and again use Contour with that and control the base and the hair will stand up on your arms. Gives a breaking up fender a run for its money <and I love Fender by the way>. Its seems that many Express users use the Blues voice on channel two as their clean and the Crunch voice on channel one as their lead voice, try that
So don't discount the Mesa
Regards
Mike
I do like the mesa's, especially how they are build 
damn hot. But the express amps are more a overdrive amp, and I'm more into a highgain tone, the stilltetho is more a vintage type tone, which is also very cool. If I want a highgain mesa, its either the rectifier combo or the roadking combo and thats going 2 be more than R30 000, and I can get the H&K for R11 500. So yeah. What do you guys think about Randall amps? Ive played on a hybrid, it was flippen nice?
damn hot. But the express amps are more a overdrive amp, and I'm more into a highgain tone, the stilltetho is more a vintage type tone, which is also very cool. If I want a highgain mesa, its either the rectifier combo or the roadking combo and thats going 2 be more than R30 000, and I can get the H&K for R11 500. So yeah. What do you guys think about Randall amps? Ive played on a hybrid, it was flippen nice?