The Challenge June 2013

Renesongs

~~Write your own cover~~

Hammeron wrote: ~~Can we break the law and say cover your favourite song in 3 minutes? Anything goes.~~

OK I'm going to moderate Hammeron's topic and say write and record a piece in the style of one of your favourite songs. Anything from 1 to 3 minutes. Beware copyright laws will be enforced so you need to tweak your melody just enough to make it different from the original. This, by the way, is how I believe all great art is made. Have some fun with this one All entries PM-ed to me by no later than Tuesday 25th of June.

Hammeron wrote: Write the basic theme tune to a new SA Tv series called "Agter elke Prawn".
Rules and conditions apply

This is the the New challenge for June. Entries to be PM ed to me by Friday 28th

Highway-Chile

Hmmmm......ooooo-keh!!

Okay so lets just say my favorite song in the world is Lady Madonna. Can I record the music as is...an exact copy of the original..... and then only alter the lyrics and vocal melody? Or can no identifiable part of the song be used?

V8

Highway Chile wrote: Hmmmm......ooooo-keh!!

Okay so lets just say my favorite song in the world is Lady Madonna. Can I record the music as is...an exact copy of the original..... and then only alter the lyrics and vocal melody? Or can no identifiable part of the song be used?

Heya HWC, while I was -ahem- researching what I could get away with for the pop challenge a few months ago, I came across this :

At the time I was trying just to extract some vocals from a tune, but the last 90sec of this clip was a kinda tutorial on re-engineering a song to get around copyright. Stuff I'm sure you've seen/done before, but maybe gives others some idea's for covering a tune?

There is another alternative - do a parody, then I reckon you can re-use the everything, just changing the lyrics appropriately (ala Wierd Al).

FruitarGeek

I'm yet to take a course in Intellectual Property, but, is it not possible to simply place a disclaimer saying you don't own any rights to the song and that all rights belong to said artists etc. Consequently, should this be the course we take, then none of us can make our songs downloadable.

Renesongs

Highway Chile wrote: Hmmmm......ooooo-keh!!

Okay so lets just say my favorite song in the world is Lady Madonna. Can I record the music as is...an exact copy of the original..... and then only alter the lyrics and vocal melody? Or can no identifiable part of the song be used?

AFAIK that is permissible provided you do give credit to the author of your backtrack. Chord progressions are a very grey area in copyright because as most will know there is not a large set of of unique chord progressions in one key. It's like trying to copyright an atom.

Squonk

how does youtube do it then? Soundcloud, Myspace, Reverbnation

All of these have covers?

deefstes

Squonk wrote: how does youtube do it then? Soundcloud, Myspace, Reverbnation

All of these have covers?

I am pretty sure that, if you don't make money from performing a song, you have no obligation to the copyright holder. I've uploaded a few songs from performances at TJ's to Youtube. These would be covers of Cat Stevens, Bee Gees or Dire Straits and the system actually flagged them for copyrighted content. I simple cited "fair use" in all of the cases and it has been accepted.

Bob-Dubery

deefstes wrote:
Squonk wrote: how does youtube do it then? Soundcloud, Myspace, Reverbnation

All of these have covers?
I am pretty sure that, if you don't make money from performing a song, you have no obligation to the copyright holder. I've uploaded a few songs from performances at TJ's to Youtube. These would be covers of Cat Stevens, Bee Gees or Dire Straits and the system actually flagged them for copyrighted content. I simple cited "fair use" in all of the cases and it has been accepted.

There's more to it than that. An artist may not like the way the song is being used - even if there are no financial considerations. Notable examples would be Bruce Springsteen ("Born in the USA") and John Mellencamp ("Little Pink Houses") refusing permission for their songs to be used in political campaigns.

Renesongs

I think that we have reached the era where creative copyrights are becoming extremely difficult to monitor and enforce through ant legal system. For the purposes of this forum lets assume that we are all musicians and we are honour bond to respect the rights of other musicians. If you really feel the need to cover someone else's music please be respectful . Give them credit for the idea and try to add to the composition rather than just copy it . I mean you wouldn't take a paint by numbers book of famous paintings colour them in and put them on display in a gallery as an exhibition of your work?

Highway-Chile

If we have to copy a cover song, just not too closely....and change the lyrics and melody.......the challenge may as well be..."compose a hit song that sounds just like [insert your favorite hit song here] but do not plagiarize at all.

I think this is a hard challenge.

What about stepping back and just giving Hammeron a chance to make a new challenge, given that the original one raises copyright issues? A simpler one that a wider group of players might find inspiring to give a try.

Or if we stay with it, perhaps one could do a Weird Al Yankovic on some song or other of our choosing.....parody the heck out of it That might blur the lines as far as legality. The purpose could be educational and for the sake of humor.

Dunno.......just wondering......don't want to step on anyone's toes. As far as digits are concerned......my thumb is still boogered .....so I might have to sit it out anyway.

Bob-Dubery

Highway Chile wrote: Or if we stay with it, perhaps one could do a Weird Al Yankovic on some song or other of our choosing.....parody the heck out of it That might blur the lines as far as legality.

Not at all. Weird Al's "Eat It" is credited to him AND to Michael Jackson. Jacko wrote the melody and the melody is used unmodified and so he gets a co-write.

Back in the early 70s there was an attempt to use a parody of Merle Haggard's "Okie From Muskogee" in a movie. The producers realised that although the song was a parody and had all new lyrics the melody was Haggard's and so they had to see clearance from Haggard or his publishers. Which was going to be a problem because Haggard was unlikely to like the lyrics. Eventually permission was declined on the grounds that "Merle's momma won't like it."

Haggard must have loosened up a bit, sold the rights or found himself short of money because a few years later Kinky Friedman was able to record "Asshole from el Paso" which used the same melody and had lyrics that Haggard probably didn't find amusing.

Renesongs

Highway Chile wrote: If we have to copy a cover song, just not too closely....and change the lyrics and melody.......the challenge may as well be..."compose a hit song that sounds just like [insert your favorite hit song here] but do not plagiarize at all.

I think this is a hard challenge.

What about stepping back and just giving Hammeron a chance to make a new challenge, given that the original one raises copyright issues? A simpler one that a wider group of players might find inspiring to give a try.

Or if we stay with it, perhaps one could do a Weird Al Yankovic on some song or other of our choosing.....parody the heck out of it That might blur the lines as far as legality. The purpose could be educational and for the sake of humor.

Dunno.......just wondering......don't want to step on anyone's toes. As far as digits are concerned......my thumb is still boogered .....so I might have to sit it out anyway.

I actually considered the option of giving Hammeron a chance to make a new challenge as I have done on the many occasions where people have requested to do covers as a challenge topic. However I decided that maybe it would be a useful challenge to analyse your favourite music and attempt to write in the style that you enjoy such much. Admittedly it is a little more challenging than simply regurgitating another musicians work. But I am certain that the majority of the members that attempt our monthly challenge are well up to it and that it will be a good learning experience for all those who attempt this challenge particularly those who have difficulty in finding a handle or a way in to composing there own music.

DonovanB

I like the idea of "in the style of" I think it challenges us to draw inspiration from our favourites.

Exams are done for me so I should be getting one in for this. Not sure who I will imitate though

Mixerboy

deefstes wrote:
Squonk wrote: how does youtube do it then? Soundcloud, Myspace, Reverbnation

All of these have covers?
I am pretty sure that, if you don't make money from performing a song, you have no obligation to the copyright holder. I've uploaded a few songs from performances at TJ's to Youtube. These would be covers of Cat Stevens, Bee Gees or Dire Straits and the system actually flagged them for copyrighted content. I simple cited "fair use" in all of the cases and it has been accepted.

Not quite, if in the copyright it says no broadcasting, lending, public performance whatever whatever then you've broken the law......criminal, if you've ever lent a friend a cd you've broken the law, it's pretty petty and worth no ones trouble so unless you do make a sizeable amount of money that the artist can benefit from it's usually not worth the time effort and MONEY for the label/publisher to pursue it.

As far as I remember you CAN actually do a cover and put it on a cd, you'll just have to provide the relevant info and sort out the mechanical rights, with or without the artists/publishers permission.

Hammeron

Interesting insights....so are we gonna get any entries then? { Apart from Banksie of course } I'll be watching this one from the peanut gallery. 8)

warrenpridgeon

Hammeron wrote: Interesting insights....so are we gonna get any entries then? { Apart from Banksie of course } I'll be watching this one from the peanut gallery. 8)

I would have to track some vocals and stuff... lol... might be fun to attempt... but my contribution will be messy as heck :-[

So...is it "in the style of", but not a "cover"?

//off to find my notepad and pencil

Squonk

Yes

Can we have some direction.

Must we do a cover that does not infringe copyright or is it in the style of?

Hammeron

warrenpridgeon wrote:
Hammeron wrote: Interesting insights....so are we gonna get any entries then? { Apart from Banksie of course } I'll be watching this one from the peanut gallery. 8)
I would have to track some vocals and stuff... lol... might be fun to attempt... but my contribution will be messy as heck :-[

So...is it "in the style of", but not a "cover"?

//off to find my notepad and pencil

Rene?

deefstes

Squonk wrote: Yes

Can we have some direction.

Must we do a cover that does not infringe copyright or is it in the style of?

While I can appreciate that there is a nuance difference between the two, I suspect that appreciation will fall away the moment I start voting. So I guess you could do either and it wouldn't affect your votes one way or the other. Or to put it differently, if you are uncertain about the exact brief, then so are the voters ?

warrenpridgeon

Squonk wrote: Yes

Can we have some direction.

Must we do a cover that does not infringe copyright or is it in the style of?

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