i have a v100 icon and iv got to say that i love that thing more then anything in the world!!
would definitely recommend it. i even picked it up off gumtree for R2000 with a case ?

But cheesecake is always good.

There's an LS160 in the classifieds... :? much better choice imho.
If that's above budget than cheesecake might stop the craving for 5 minutes.

Gearhead wrote: There's an LS160 in the classifieds... :? much better choice imho.
If that's above budget than cheesecake might stop the craving for 5 minutes.

Yeah my beady eyes were upon it, unfortunately I can't offer him a fair price for it on my budget...

Go for the cheesecake. ?

Personally, I'd say go for the Vintage. Play both the V100 and the Paradise and see which one you prefer. I'm not sure how big the difference is between the two.

For me it comes down to neck preference - the Tokai if you want a more modern slender neck, the Paradise if you want a chunky, vintage style neck. The Paradise is also much closer to the traditional body wood choices (maple on mahogany) than either the V100 (mahogany - with maple veneer on the bursts) or the Tokai (sycamore on basswood).

Save up. Get an MIJ Tokai. If you already have a guitar, no reason to get a beginner LP.

Well I went to look at Music Connection today to try out these 3. I was actually rather surprised... The MIC Tokai just couldn't keep up with those Vintages ? Not that the Tokai is a bad guitar, I did rather like it :yup: The Vintages just spoke to me though...

Alex B Broadway wrote: Personally, I'd say go for the Vintage. Play both the V100 and the Paradise and see which one you prefer. I'm not sure how big the difference is between the two.

It's difficult, I did exactly this, and I think I like them both equally. The plus for the ordinary V100 for me is that I can get it in the colour I want, whereas the AFD I'd have to live with a colour I have mediocre feelings for... But I'll see how I feel about either of them when I can get an accurate price comparison for them.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: The Paradise is also much closer to the traditional body wood choices (maple on mahogany) than either the V100 (mahogany - with maple veneer on the bursts) or the Tokai (sycamore on basswood).

I think this difference, combined with the Wilkinson pups, made big difference to the sound of the Vintages. To my ear, much "beefier" in all pickups, and more clarity in the neck and middle positions than the Tokai had.

singemonkey wrote: Save up. Get an MIJ Tokai. If you already have a guitar, no reason to get a beginner LP.

I'm inclined to agree, my main reason for buying now though is that my music (especially in my band situation) is moving in a direction that neither my Strat nor Ibby can fully do justice; Strat is too twangy and the Ibanez just doesn't have the cleans or harmonics...

Imho, that ibby can be dramatically improved sound wise with pup upgrades..

I've played your guitar when it was still FFFs and theactives are waaaaay hot. My guess is some lower output passive pups will transform that guitar sounds wise and accentuate the cleans and dynamics..

But if you want a les Paul, those v100s look good value

guidothepimmp wrote: Imho, that ibby can be dramatically improved sound wise with pup upgrades..

I've played your guitar when it was still FFFs and theactives are waaaaay hot. My guess is some lower output passive pups will transform that guitar sounds wise and accentuate the cleans and dynamics..

But if you want a les Paul, those v100s look good value

I tend to agree, though I do appreciate the Ibby's sound for when I'm in a "metal mood"... I was also faced with the option of selling it to fund a higher-end LP, but I don't think I could part with it...

Why is there no 'Buy a Tele' option? ?

If it has to be a Les Paul with least amount of cash forked out for quality and tone, I'd go for a MIJ Tokai without any doubt. The LS 48 has a maple neck and basswood body. It will never deliver the tone of a mahogany set-neck Les Paul if that's what you're after...

I was extremely impressed and then extremely disappointed with the Vintage V100's I played. Initially impressed by the look, weight and tone woods used but subsequently completely disappointed by the neck quality and finish. The V100's I played had the worst necks I've ever laid my hands on. Frets where not even close to level and unfinished. And especially the one guitar had a severe twist in the neck. Fretboard concave on the one side and convex on the other. I liked the guitars for the price but there's no way I'd spend a cent on those necks... Maybe I was just very unlucky that the first two examples I tested where complete duds... Other's have very different opinions of the Vintage range so my experience is hopefully a more isolated case...

For the price, quality and tone: MIJ Tokai if I was in the market for a LP. The ones I've tested have all impressed...

ZarK wrote: If it has to be a Les Paul with least amount of cash forked out for quality and tone, I'd go for a MIJ Tokai without any doubt. The LS 48 has a maple neck and basswood body. It will never deliver the tone of a mahogany set-neck Les Paul if that's what you're after...

I was extremely impressed and then extremely disappointed with the Vintage V100's I played. Initially impressed by the look, weight and tone woods used but subsequently completely disappointed by the neck quality and finish. The V100's I played had the worst necks I've ever laid my hands on. Frets where not even close to level and unfinished. And especially the one guitar had a severe twist in the neck. Fretboard concave on the one side and convex on the other. I liked the guitars for the price but there's no way I'd spend a cent on those necks... Maybe I was just very unlucky that the first two examples I tested where complete duds... Other's have very different opinions of the Vintage range so my experience is hopefully a more isolated case...

For the price, quality and tone: MIJ Tokai if I was in the market for a LP. The ones I've tested have all impressed...

Thanks man. I was really impressed with the Vintages I tried, Awesome sound and appeared to be good quality as well. I'd love a MIJ Tokai, but I just can't afford one on my budget, even second hand...

VellaJ wrote: Thanks man. I was really impressed with the Vintages I tried, Awesome sound and appeared to be good quality as well. I'd love a MIJ Tokai, but I just can't afford one on my budget, even second hand...

Understandable.

As I mentioned, I dig the tonewoods, look and weight of the Vintage Les Pauls I played. Based on my experience with them, I'd just triple check those necks and frets... I was impressed with the rest of the guitar's features at the price point...

I hope you find a great example to sort out that Les Paul itch of yours! ?

i have two mij tokais - the sg88 and the ls95s. both have exactly the same neck profile - which i believe they share with the ls-series lp's. out of the box, the sg88 was impressive and, although the goldtop was set up at andy's when i bought it, the sg doesn't lag too far behind. my next purchase will be a mij tokai les paul. i can't warrant spending the amount of cash one is expected to lay out for a gibson these days, and there is a bit of a difference in quality between the chinese and japanese tokais. it's not like jumping from an epiphone to a gibson, but it is worth spending the extra cash - for me anyway.

so i'm saving. smash the cheesecake in yer, save up, get a japanese tokai.
dh

I can only speak for my V100 Paradise, but I can tell you the frets and setup were near perfect out of the box. However, I have heard a few reports of the standard V100 being a bit variable in their quality control and if you look closely you can easily tell they are a relatively inexpensive instrument. Same as the Epis (and indeed, most Chinese guitars in the same price range). Still, they remain amazing value for money.

The MIJ Tokais are in a different bracket entirely, both quality and price. I'd love to own a LS160 myself, but have one (admittedly idiosyncratic, but unfortunately insurmountable) reservation - I need a seriously wide fat neck (like a R8 neck) on a Gibson scale length to be comfortable. Regrettably that is something Tokai just don't do, their necks are relatively slender and narrow, closer to the early '60s neck Gibsons, which are more like a modern neck size and profile (and far more popular than the baseball bats I like).

A fairer comparison with the Tokai are the Gibsons themselves. But with a similarly spotty QC and price tags double the equivalent Tokai models, they are not anywhere near in the running for me, for whom a Les Paul is a "nice to have" guitar rather than a be-all and end-all primary instrument or an investment.

Another brand worth mentioning are the PRS SE models, which usually have impeccable QC and setups, have some models in the Les Paul-ish vein and fall between the Tokai and Vintage price brackets. Still... not quite a Les Paul, they lack the resale values of the more desirable US models and, most importantly for me, have a relatively slender neck (nice width though).

So... odd as it may seem, so far the Vintage Paradise is the "best" Les Paul for me at the moment - affordable, good enough quality to spend some time and money upgrading and, most importantly, it's something I will actually get to play for more than five minutes at a time without my hand cramping. Put it this way - It'll keep me until Tokai bring out an LS160 with a fat neck or a secondhand R8 shows up for a silly price.

+1 Alan...

I have to agree that if you're not after an exact Gibson Les Paul copy, just a Les Paulish axe, The PRS SE Single Cut or Tremonti is very hard (if not impossible) to beat for the price. Especially second hand... In all honesty, the PRS SE's I've played offered fit, finish and playability that compares favourably with guitars at least double their price... They have quality necks and frets that make exceptionally low action set-ups possible... Very impressive axes imho indeed... Not exactly Les Paul sounding but will be able to fill the same tonal slot, no problem. Much more comfortable to play though...

+1 Alan

Pros SE range is great, but I wouldn't recommend a tremonti se, try go for a standard or their custom se

If all else fails, I do also like Ltd's with seymours, that range of theirs isn't bad at all

As some people know, I didn't like the tokais at the beginning, but after playing a few I come to the conclucion that they are great instruments and can also get pricey for higher models

Yeah, those PRS SE's are fantastic quality guitars for the price.

Interesting what you say about the Tokai necks. I've never played an R8. EZ's played MikeM's R8 and my LS160 and says that the R8, apart from being a fantastic LP, has a seriously thick neck - definitely very appealling as you say. But on the flip-side, my LS160's neck is a lot chunkier than my '83 LP Deluxe's. And I can't say I noticed R9s having a thicker neck, so I'd put it more in that range than in the 1960 LP range myself. Works nicely for me, but I do think that thicker is generally better.

I held an Eko at our local store (amazing looking guitar. Stunning in that kitsch '60s, retro, Jack White kind of way), and that had a neck that totally redefines "baseball bat neck" It was freakin' HUGE. I discovered then that necks can get too thick. ?

But yeah. I've been very impressed with the PRS SE range as budget instruments. Right up with guitars twice their price easily.

+1 on the prs se's. there's also a great range within the range, as it were. plenty to choose from.

check 'em out at http://www.prsguitars.com/
dh