PlayOn
Hi forum members,
My first post / question and I already feel that this site has loads of valuable info...
Maybe this has been asked before, so please don't shout at me for not searching the forum extensively.
I have a 10 year old son, playing for around 3 years now and I am worried as I don't have the skill set to train him further. I do not understand the concept of music, so if you tell me that a bend on a string will kill a cat, then I might just believe you.
OK, background first.
Son got a entry level cheapy guitar and amp in a box set about 3 years ago. Sound was terrible, but the objective was to figure out if the talent and commitmaent was there first before we start spending money, which at this stage seems like a never ending pit of "I want" and "I need" and please dad, without ever wanting to mow the lawn for some cash of his own.... what will we not do for our kids.
So, the upgrades started.
First the amp, which was upgraded to a Roland Cube 15xl, which had an massive impact on the noise level in the house.
Then we realised that he need to learn and understand how effects can change the sound, so then came a BOSS ME25 pedal, which I must admit, was a life changer for the kid.
So, then we realised that no matter what you throw at the amp, if the guitar is not up to scratch, you need something descent, so off to bothners we went and got a CORT KX guitar with EMG pickups.
This is what we've had for the last year.
So now he thinks he is getting better, and auditioned for talent show, after two audition rounds, he now plays in the final gala event next month.
Obviously I promised him a nice pressie for if he makes it to the gala event.
Then it happenned. Nice special on new Marshall MG50CFX amp. he had to look at it for a month in the lounge and pay it off with chores.
So here is my problem.
The sound we get from the current guitar just doesn't do it for me.
The son played on the new Cort les paul look alike with duncan pickups last weekend (i think), and it sounded amazing, wel that's what I thought.
Anyway, I am thinking of upgrading the guitar to something of much better quality, with a max budget of around 7 - 8k, and this must last him for a very, very long time, as my spending spree is now over, or is this my famous last words!
ok, the son loves rock, very much into Guns & Roses / eric clapton etc. and he like solo's more than rythm stuff
What do I buy, what do I look for, what next?
I looked at gumtree and see many gibsons and strats and some for very good prices, but I am not knowledgable enough to look at any of those to know if it's a good buy, or if there are anything wrong with the guitar.
Even on new guitars, I can only believe a salesman for his / her word.
Hopefully I can get some proper advice from someone that knows more about guitars than me, and lead me in the right direction.
Fact is the son practices on average 2 hours every evening, and on weekends this can easily become a full day in front of the guitar.
and no, I do not have money for a big branded guitar. maybe the son can get those himself one day!
I thank you for you patience when reading this and giving valuable advice.
Gearhead
You're right this has been discussed. I am one of the many people who regularly give the advice to (especially in that price range) buy A-brand second hand. You will be able to tell if son is a Fender or a Gibson man (he may change his mind later) so the choice is easy. There are few pitfalls value wise when buying, so for 6-7k you should be able to pick up a Highway One Strat or an SG Special. You can sell these any time without dropping more than a packet of strings...
epictring
+1 for buying second hand. You can a lot of secondhand guitar for that money. I'm not sure if you already bought the Marshall MG. If not, I would strongly advise against it, I personally find them sounding awful. Second hand valve amp would give him an insane tone.
And remember with amps.. louder is not necessary better, especially if he's not playing live.
PlayOn
yes, he already has the Marshall amp, and if the sound is not good on it, then it's tough, nothing we can do about it now!
I believed it was good value for money at the time, and I trusted the judgement of a salesman, irrespective if he was right or wrong.
As for valve amp, I agree on tone and volume. The marshal will be used 95% indoors for the next 5 - 8 years mainly as a practice amp, and sometimes for gigs (when he gets asked to play..that is)
He still has school to finish before he can go mad!
As for buying 2nd hand guitar, yes, I am all for it, but my problem is that I will not see a dud between 10 guitars, so my chances of getting it wrong is big!
The son would love a Les Paul Standard, but they are expensive as is. Other option is a Strat, but I think the son would lean more towards the LP, as everytime he gets into the shop, he always want to test drive a LP lookalike instead of a fender.
Apart from gumtree, can I get suggestion of other websites that will have second hand guitars? pm me if you cannot promote here please!
Or even better, I am in the market to buy a good quality branded guitar, so if you have something to sell, talk to me! my price range max 10k.
The biggest mistake I will ever make, and I know it, will be to visit LP dealership in CT this weekend. My son's gonna go nuts!
Nitebob
Where are you based?
Same suggestion always rises in these cases, take him to a music store (explaining beforehand you are not there to buy, just look) Have him everything that tickles his fancy, prefereably through the same amp you bought. Make notes, lots of notes. If he is a Les Paul man...here in Pretoria you can pick up an Epiphone Les Paul for around R2800 (secondhand, but gorgeous) that leaves you a lot of Moola to fit new pups (prefered ones from notes made at music store)...
As always, just my humble opinion
Alex-B-Broadway
If he's looking for a Les Paul, Tokai guitars are worth a look, as are Vintage. If you buy an Epiphone now, he's going to get to that "I-need-to-upgrade-again" point too soon, I think.
Gearhead
Dud or no dud, have you ever seen a Gibson in reasonable nick for less than 6? If it is a dud you'll still be able to sell it without loss. I rest my case.
PlayOn
fair comment Gearhead,
I am happy to pay more than 6k, even up to 10k for the right gibson.
Between the Gibson models, which is the most sought after, or best to look for, as I am not very knowledgable on guitars.
Also, the son has a Cort guitar, which is I guess a good entry level guitar, and he enjoys playing it, although I do believe the sound is not that great.
Is he not to young to have a Gibson?, will the Cort not be enough for the next couple of years?, after all he is only 10 years old, and still has a lot to learn before he will really be able to appreciate a top quality precision instrument! Any comments on this?
I know that i.e. a Gibson will not make him a better guitar player, he still has to work hard at it to become good at playing guitar, whether it is with a Cort, or with a Gibson!
Will a Gibson really make such a big difference?
Bob-Dubery
You can always upgrade the Cort by having better pickups installed. Thing is, you need to have some idea of the sound you want so that you can pick the appropriate set of pickups.
Keep the originals. You can have them refitted if you decide to sell.
You don't know much about guitars, you say, you are perhaps not au fait with terms like "action". There are various adjustments on the guitar which govern, to a degree, how easy it is to play and how well it stays in tune along the neck.
I think you could improve things for your son quite a lot by getting a good technician to set the guitar up and upgrade the electronics. And for a lot less money than you are willing to spend.
Tell your son what you are proposing to do. This will add to his knowledge about guitars - that a not so good guitar can be improved by means of a setup, maybe a fret dress is that's deemed necessary and that if you like most of the things about an electric guitar but not the sound then you can always fit after-market pickups and beef up the tone that way.
He likes to play leads but not rhythm? That will catch up with him at some point. A knowledge of chords and of rhythm playing is essential if, long term, he wants to join a band.
singemonkey
You need some direct input into your situation from an experienced guitar player. Without someone who knows electric guitars having seen/heard your son's rig, it's very hard to say whether the problem is his current guitar or not.
EMG pickups have a particular sound that is rather different to that of most pickups. It may well be that a simple change to the cheap but absolutely excellent Tonerider pickups will dramatically improve the sound of the guitar - at least insofar as making it sound more like the guitars on the records your son likes. If you can make contact with an experienced player - maybe someone on this forum who lives nearby - they can quickly assess the situation and make a practical recommendation for how your son can go forward learning without being put off by not liking his sound.
I doubt that at this stage he does not have all the gear he needs to learn on. It may be nice to go out and buy gear, but it may contribute to a mistaken impression that you need to "upgrade" in order to play better. The real reason for buying fancier guitars is because (a) you can, and (b) you get very fussy and particular as you become more experienced.
When he's learned to the level where he knows all the differences, knows what various makes and models cost 2nd hand, then he's ready to tell you what he needs... with reasons. This forum would be a very good place for him to start finding out about this stuff. But bear in mind, there can be a heavy emphasis on gear - because its easy and fun to talk about, not because its as important as the space we devote to it suggests.
AlanRatcliffe
Don't forget the classifieds on this very site ? -
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/index.php?action=classifieds
A used Gibson Les Paul will usually set you back about R10K or more, depending on model (starting with the Studio, through Faded to Standard and beyond), so probably a bit higher than you were willing to go for now (especially given his years). The positive side is that a secondhand Gibson will hold it's value if/when you want to sell. The next best thing would be a Japanese made Tokai (there is one in the classifieds now), which are better value for money, but don't hold their value as well (fortunately if you are buying one second hand, the first owner takes the knock, not you).
V8
singemonkey wrote:
I doubt that at this stage he does not have all the gear he needs to learn on. It may be nice to go out and buy gear, but it may contribute to a mistaken impression that you need to "upgrade" in order to play better. The real reason for buying fancier guitars is because (a) you can, and (b) you get very fussy and particular as you become more experienced.
When he's learned to the level where he knows all the differences, knows what various makes and models cost 2nd hand, then he's ready to tell you what he needs... with reasons. This forum would be a very good place for him to start finding out about this stuff. But bear in mind, there can be a heavy emphasis on gear - because its easy and fun to talk about, not because its as important as the space we devote to it suggests.
+1, aka occasional bouts of G.A.S (guitar acquisition syndrome). Nothing wrong with that, although I reckon your son is a real lucky guy with his current setup.
The only thing I'd think of is getting his current guitar setup by a 'pro' and get a knowledgable 2nd opinion from a guitar teacher on how is using his current gear.
Then invest some time in investigating the differences between strats, LP's and how the differing pickup configurations affect the sound you are discerning (E.g. the single coil pickup in a strat vs humbucker in the Cort vs the P90 in a LP). Nothing wrong with a bit of window shopping, take along the Cort and try, try, try before you buy.
chris77
First of all, thank you and congrats on supporting your son. 8)
Ten years old and already he has found out what most guitarists will tell you - no matter what you play, you will eventually want something else ?
In his case it might be justified though. The Cort KX is a very metal-ish guitar and a more traditional LP type guitar is far better suited for Classic Rock like G&R and Clapton's bluesy tones. As mentioned you will get more value for your money buying second hand and there are some great alternatives to Gibson available. For now, I would also suggest you look at those. Eventually he will graduate to better modelling etc. and if he starts gigging regularly probably a tube amp or two and some nice pedals - I reckon that will be when a a pro-instrument like a Gibson becomes a priority. But for now though, not so much.
singemonkey
chris77 wrote:
In his case it might be justified though. The Cort KX is a very metal-ish guitar and a more traditional LP type guitar is looks far better suited for Classic Rock like G&R and Clapton's bluesy tones.
Fixed.
I'm as much a victim of the current "This type of guitar is only suited to X genre..." but it's a myth. Albert King played blues on a Flying V. Judas Priest played metal on stratocasters. Jimmy Page launched hard rock on a Telecaster. Brian May played it on a home-made guitar.
The pickups may be unsuitable, but you can play any kind of electric guitar music on any kind of electric guitar. If he's not yet performing, it is not really justifiable to spend your money just so that his guitar has the "right look," in my opinion. And looking at pics of the Cort KX, it looks admirably suited to playing classic rock and blues. If there's nothing wrong with the guitar that can't be fixed with a setup, you'll save a lot of money just swapping the pickups.
Sean
It's been said, it's difficult to pinpoint what the problem may be. Someone mentioned that maybe you can get someone on the forum, who is knowledgeable in this department, and who may live in your area to check it out. As Singe says, replacing those EMG's could solve the problem completely (you could then put the rest of the money away for future killer upgrade deals that the rest of us can't grab because we're constantly all gassed out) Alternatively, that Tokai in the classifieds is the top end of Tokai's iirc. It's a LS160 I think, and the seller is Joe Moore, great guy to deal with, you could have a chat with him. If I had the funds available, I'd have already picked it up myself, without a doubt. Good luck
V8
Sean wrote:
It's been said, it's difficult to pinpoint what the problem may be. Someone mentioned that maybe you can get someone on the forum, who is knowledgeable in this department, and who may live in your area to check it out.
I'd volunteer, but I know sweet (child o' mine) nothing about LP's ?.
But, thinking about it - how about popping around to the jam Manfred arranges sundays?
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/guitar-events/bellville-jam-this-sunday-improv-%28cpt%29/.
I've been meaning to pop in, but keep getting sidetracked.
slyd
As seen, a lot of the guys here, recommend a Tokai, if unable to acquire a Gibson, and you really lean towards a Les Paul.
IMHO, the Tokais are the closest brand to the "real thing". Their build quality is exceptional, as is the playability, and classic LP sound !
My choice would be the LC98S, which is the vintage series, and essentially a Les Paul Custom.
Of course, as mentioned, they don't hold their value as well as a Gibbo. But your son will be playing this as his fave guitar for a long time, so who cares ?
Delta-Male
X-rated Bob wrote:
You can always upgrade the Cort by having better pickups installed. Thing is, you need to have some idea of the sound you want so that you can pick the appropriate set of pickups.
Keep the originals. You can have them refitted if you decide to sell.
You don't know much about guitars, you say, you are perhaps not au fait with terms like "action". There are various adjustments on the guitar which govern, to a degree, how easy it is to play and how well it stays in tune along the neck.
I think you could improve things for your son quite a lot by getting a good technician to set the guitar up and upgrade the electronics. And for a lot less money than you are willing to spend.
Tell your son what you are proposing to do. This will add to his knowledge about guitars - that a not so good guitar can be improved by means of a setup, maybe a fret dress is that's deemed necessary and that if you like most of the things about an electric guitar but not the sound then you can always fit after-market pickups and beef up the tone that way.
He likes to play leads but not rhythm? That will catch up with him at some point. A knowledge of chords and of rhythm playing is essential if, long term, he wants to join a band.
I agree, upgrade.. It sounds like your looking for a permanent solution, but I doubt you'll find it.
10 Years old is quite young to buy a guitar that will have to be sufficient for many years to come.
Most of us(maybe even all of us) can't help ourselves, but we spend alot of time looking at and
wanting new gear. You constantly think to yourself "if only I had this/that...", then when you get it,
with time you move on to the next one. I mean how many people on this forum will say they own
theyre dream gear? And there are some amazing guitars on this forum...
Plus, hes just entering his teens, and teenagers can be VERY picky/diffcult.
Overall, I guess what I'm getting at is I doubt you'll buy a guitar that will keep him from wanting
something else. But hey, just my opinion.
el-guapo
Agree with all of the above re a set-up and exploring upgraded pickups, etc, but if you do decide to buy, I have a black Gibson LP Studio that I've been too lazy to get round to putting on Gumtree (or even really figuring out what it should sell for). I got it in 2005 new, and from what I recall it is an '05 model.
The original pickups are back in (I had some Seymour Duncans in there that I needed elsewhere - something to keep in mind for possible upgrading down the line) and other than graphite saddles it's all original. Been gigged a bit so it's not show-room fresh, but it is a pretty damn sweet guitar that I am only looking to get rid of because it has been superseded and I need the space.
I am open to some public opinion input on what a fair price would be, and it sounds like your son is working hard on his playing and a GnR man after my own heart, so I'd be happy to go low.
At the same time, I do think you may want to discuss upgrading the Cort with him (some of those babies are VERY nicely made guitars) and then make a decision: a very valid comment was made about learning how good upgrades/tweaks will teach him more and maybe make him bond with his guitar in a way that "flipping" guitars won't.
Sorry if I've violated forum rules by turning this into a classified ad... :-[
PlayOn
Hi guys,
Thanks so much for the positive responses, much appreciated.
yes, although I am open to purchasing another guitar, it is not set in stone.
The objective was to hear from real time current musicians what they would suggest I do, and the feedback is excellent.
I am quite happy i.e to keep the Cosrt as is, and the son must live with it for the time been, but I also know in his hart that he wants to excell and explore and live the dream. He is hard working, and his guitars will definately not end up as showpieces against his bedroom walls to impress his girlfriend.
He is very commited, and as a dad, will actually do anything for him, guess that is our nature.
However, this does not mean throwing open a credit card and just buy for the sake of buying. All our finances are tight at best, so been able to even look at other options is now a privilage, not a given.
Yes, I have spoiled him with some nice toys / tools, but I do believe that every expense had it's merits.
I think I get the drift of your thoughts and will keep this in mind until the end of the month, when I will need to make a definative descision on direction.
I thank you for all your comments and will investigate all the options as notd
