Cleric
Hi All,
After many hours of research and many phonecalls to Marshall Music (thanks Stuart!) I've narrowed down my decision to 1 of 3 guitars that fit into my budget. I will have a chance to play them when they arrive in November and then make a decision from there. Was always going to be tough being a lefty.
My options are:
- Epi LP Standard + Grover Tuners + new pups
- Epi LP Custom Pro + Grover Tuners + new pups
- Gibson LP Studio
I'm more than willing to put in the work and money to get the Epi's to their best, but I'm still open to the Studio winning me over, despite the fact that I'm not crazy about the looks. I'm still on the fence on the gold hardware on the Custom though.
Regarding the pups, I'm torn between doing 59 Classics or Burstbucker Pros. Any recommendations?
So basically I'm asking for any advice, things I might have missed, or general thoughts on my approach. Thanks!
Bob-Dubery
If it must say "Les Paul" on the headstock then go shopping for a late model 2nd hand instrument in good condition. You get them. Word is that some early 2000s models are better made and sounding than what's coming out of the factory now.
Remember the trick with guitars. From new to 2nd hand you lose money - basically the moment the guitar leaves the store. Thereafter the value of the guitar is what it is, and the guitar does not devalue with each sale.
If it just has to look like a Les Paul and doesn't have to say "Les Paul" on the headstock, then you have a lot more options.
Reinhard
I'd go for the studio. Check out the faded mahogany models as well. It will probably hold value better than the epi's and i feel you get more guitar for the price.
charleshaupt
Take the Gibson..
ZarK
Out of those 3, I'd go for the Gibson as well.
(Worth looking at MIJ Tokai Les Pauls as well, unless you've already checked them off your list...)
se7ent7
I agree, go for the Gibson. If its a wine red or black one, the appearance can be vastly improved towards a more classic look by adding cream pickup and selector rings, and a cream pickguard (or even cooler a custom wood guard - see www.woodguarden.com). Then the only difference is edge binding, which really not so much at all. I think even a standard Wine red or black studio looks great ?
And then you don't have to worry about pickups, I personally love the 498T/496R combo. Vintage modern, I'll call the sound. They'll be classics someday, I tell ya? So remember to add about R1000 to the price of the Epi's (you really do need to upgrade their pups, it's terrible).
Concerning Burstbuckers... I've had quite a love/hate relationship with them. They're not what Gibson claims they're like at all. To me they can easily sound high upper midrangey and difficult to work with. However, when dialed in right they can give a sound that no other pups can. A very cool vintage bluesy, but midrangey cutting tone. If you do go for them, you should really try lowering their height drastically (even below the pickup rings). They have enough output, and this makes them sweeter sounding and easier to work with in my opinion (and many others' - see the Gibbo forums).
For me, mostly, I use my Standard with BB Pros for blues and vintage classic rock, whereas the 498T/496R set in my LP Studio is much more versatile and applicable to many styles (but also including blues and classic rock - great tone also).
If you're unsure about the BB Pro's, I'd say rather get the '57 classic pair or another great combo is a Seymour duncan '59 neck (awesome pickup) and a Custom V or Custom Custom for the bridge (or a Gibbo 498T or Angus Young ?. And Ebay them 2nd hand, ask for USPS international shipping. Done it many times, never lost a package ?
Regarding the Epi's, stay away from the custom. They have a different neck profile and flat (albeit wide) frets last time I checked. And although this kind of fretless-wonder design can play beautifully on Gibsons, the Epiphone factory doesn't seem to get it right. Sure they look good, but I'll always take standard Epiphone LPs and G400s (SGs) over the customs (unless you're prepared to spend R2000 refretting and possibly reprofiling the fretboard).
Also, I'd check out second hand Tokai, vintage ibanez (although finding a set-necked one is difficult, but they're great) and also Tanglewood LPs before going for Epiphone.
But sell that kidney, get the Gibbo ?
IceCreamMan
if i may add my 3cents , have a look at the Tokai Love Rock models as well. very very good lefty LP's.
The Epiphone Les Paul Standard in lefty format is a pretty good guitar too. i sincerely believe that the lefty guitars are well made.
kapepper
X-rated Bob wrote:
If it must say "Les Paul" on the headstock then go shopping for a late model 2nd hand instrument in good condition. You get them. Word is that some early 2000s models are better made and sounding than what's coming out of the factory now.
Remember the trick with guitars. From new to 2nd hand you lose money - basically the moment the guitar leaves the store. Thereafter the value of the guitar is what it is, and the guitar does not devalue with each sale.
If it just has to look like a Les Paul and doesn't have to say "Les Paul" on the headstock, then you have a lot more options.
Word!
I never buy new, it is just a waste of money
deefstes
IceCreamMan wrote:
if i may add my 3cents , have a look at the Tokai Love Rock models as well. very very good lefty LP's.
The Epiphone Les Paul Standard in lefty format is a pretty good guitar too. i sincerely believe that the lefty guitars are well made.
I'm probably going to get lambasted for this comment but I've got a thick skin.
You wanted a Les Paul, then I'd suggest you get a Les Paul. In my mind the Epi Les Paul Standard, Epi Les Paul Custom, Tokai Les Paul Love Rock or such are more Les Paul than a Les Paul Studio, even though it comes from the Gibson stable.
The question is, what makes a guitar a Les Paul? As far as I'm concerned, an arched top is as much part of the formula as the pickup configuration, tonewoods, scale length etc. With a Gibson Les Paul Studio you're getting something that is sort of a Les Paul but at least it comes from Gibson. With a Tokai Les Paul or Epiphone Les Paul you get a Les Paul, only it doesn't come from the Gibson stable.
Just my thoughts.
costafonix
kapepper wrote:
X-rated Bob wrote:
If it must say "Les Paul" on the headstock then go shopping for a late model 2nd hand instrument in good condition. You get them. Word is that some early 2000s models are better made and sounding than what's coming out of the factory now.
Remember the trick with guitars. From new to 2nd hand you lose money - basically the moment the guitar leaves the store. Thereafter the value of the guitar is what it is, and the guitar does not devalue with each sale.
If it just has to look like a Les Paul and doesn't have to say "Les Paul" on the headstock, then you have a lot more options.
Word!
I never buy new, it is just a waste of money
Fully agree here, theres lots of Gibson Les Pauls going 2nd hand at ridiculous prices, some as low as R8K,, rather go that root but check them out very carefully.
DonovanB
deefstes wrote:
You wanted a Les Paul, then I'd suggest you get a Les Paul. In my mind the Epi Les Paul Standard, Epi Les Paul Custom, Tokai Les Paul Love Rock or such are more Les Paul than a Les Paul Studio, even though it comes from the Gibson stable.
Just my thoughts.
I have to agree there. The thinner body, chambered or different top doesn't cut it for me either. a Les Paul to me must be heavy and chunky. It must feel like you're bearing a lump of wood and rocking out.
But like Bob said, it's what
you want specifically, not what
we all want. Unless you're buying us all guitars... then I'll take Dewald's strat please...
deefstes
Donovan Banks wrote:But like Bob said, it's what you want specifically, not what we all want. Unless you're buying us all guitars... then I'll take Dewald's strat please...
:roflmao:
Cleric
X-rated Bob wrote:
If it must say "Les Paul" on the headstock then go shopping for a late model 2nd hand instrument in good condition.
I would love to, but haven't found a second hand
lefty Gibson LP Standard or Studio in black/ebony. That said, I am at a point in my life where I can afford a brand new higher end guitar for the first time, so I'd love to have one fresh from the factory.
se7ent7 wrote:
I agree, go for the Gibson. If its a wine red or black one, the appearance can be vastly improved towards a more classic look by adding cream pickup and selector rings, and a cream pickguard (or even cooler a custom wood guard - see www.woodguarden.com). Then the only difference is edge binding, which really not so much at all. I think even a standard Wine red or black studio looks great ?
Awesome idea. I'll try find some pics with the cream pups/selector applied and see if it strikes my fancy.
se7ent7 wrote:
If you're unsure about the BB Pro's, I'd say rather get the '57 classic pair or another great combo is a Seymour duncan '59 neck (awesome pickup) and a Custom V or Custom Custom for the bridge (or a Gibbo 498T or Angus Young ?. And Ebay them 2nd hand, ask for USPS international shipping. Done it many times, never lost a package ?
Sounds like '57 Classic is the way to go. Will they have the diversity to also do heavier stuff like Tool or Chevelle, but with the body of say... Live's Throwing Copper? Or am I asking too much?
Thanks for all the recommendations so far. Seems second hand is a serious option, but I just haven't found alefty Gibson anywwhere. Anyhelp with this would be awesome though.
singemonkey
'57 Classics are PAF style humbuckers. They're not really optimised for modern high gain stuff. Saying that, Judas Priest used to use Strats with single coils, so it all depends what you do with them.
se7ent7
@ deefstes - with the possible exception of the Love Rock, I think you're way wrong.
Studios are bindingless, plain Les Paul standards (ok these days the pickups differ too, but previously not even that did). And besides, like I said, I think the 498T/496R is a great set for general use, and probably why Gibson kept it in the studio while trying the BB Pros in the Standard
Ok, also options for different neck profiles are available on Standards in the 2000s (50s,60s,2008 etc).
But, imho, the 50's/60s hybrid narrow style on the Studio is very nice middle ground.
My early 90s Studio eats a friend's '07 standard for breakfast.
Show me official specs that say there's a difference in body shape, size, hardware quality or tonewoods of a Studio compared to a Standard.
If you can I'll retract my statement.
The whole point of a Studio is eliminating the extra aesthetic features, while maintaining the tonal characteristics of a Standard.
And changing the bland black rings, selector knobs and pickguard goes a long way towards this. Its just the binding that's left after that.
I'd say most 90s and early 2000s (just before serious chambering started) Studios (and Standards & Classics of course) are (acoustically) better guitars than a lot of 2004 - ... standards. But this discussion should probably go into a new thread ?
Cleric
I'm really leaning towards the Gibson at this point, and searching far and wide to find a second hand lefty. Come November I'll be able try them all alongside each other.
Still, really hoping a second hand one pops up along the way.
se7ent7
Cleric, I have a suggestion, and it's something I have infact done myself.
Why don't you do some hair triggered ebay sniping and win a bid with reasonable international shipping, for a steal?
Please hear me out before you shoot the idea down:
I've done this, and landed a early 90's studio in wine red for ... wait for it... R3500 including shipping! Ok, so I had a friend stateside that hooked me up with cost price DHL shipping, but there's still a lot of cash between R3500 and R8000 or whatever you'll get a typical second hand one for here (if ever!).
Ebay being the monolith it is, will have many lefty options. You just have to ask the seller and settle on a method and preliminary price for shipping. Lots of them won't ship outside the states but some will. Keep trying until you find one. Most often small volume dealers will do this more often than private sellers. And that also means that the stock is probably good, since they want to keep their feedback high.
So what are the big downsides?
You can't play the axe. Well, if you do this well, you could sell it here (and lefties are in high demand) probably for a bit of profit, and just do it again until a good one lands.
Some tips:
1.
Have the package clearly marked 2nd hand / used guitar, AND if you can get the seller to agree, let them fill in an imaginetively (lower) worth of the package. A friend of mine got in a R25k takamine like this without paying much customs because the seller wrote it's worth down as sub $1000 (he didn't even asked to have this done ?
2.
Open an account on one of the free ebay sniping sites, enter your maximum amount there, but also be present in the last half an hour of the bid, incase you feel a few $ more would do the trick. But don't get carried away.
3. Try to find one listed with a spelling mistake or some slightly unorthodox listing title. This is an old trick. Less people will find it, and your bidding oponents will be less.
4. If you feel lucky bid on one with few or low res photos. Ok so it's a risk, but I've done this and got some steals. Another thing is, find one with dodgy photos and message the seller to send you better photos. Fewer people will do this, and they'll move on to bids with more pro-looking photos. Less bidding oponents ?
Tokai-SA
se7ent7 wrote:
1.
Have the package clearly marked 2nd hand / used guitar, AND if you can get the seller to agree, let them fill in an imaginetively (lower) worth of the package. A friend of mine got in a R25k takamine like this without paying much customs because the seller wrote it's worth down as sub $1000 (he didn't even asked to have this done ?
There's no import/customs duty on guitars into SAfrica...only VAT. ?
Cleric
@se7ent7
Awesome suggestion. I'll definitely look into it as I've got the time and patience. Is there a "sniping" site that you would recommend?
Is it ok if I PM you through the process for on-going tips?
ezietsman
se7ent7 wrote:
AND if you can get the seller to agree, let them fill in an imaginetively (lower) worth of the package.
This isn't strictly legal. I'm surprised you even suggest it.
