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I am calling on all the acoustic guys here. I am not going to pretend I know anything about electronics in acoustic guitars and there are bunch of guys here who are into high-end acoustics and perform live. I am toying with the idea of installing electronics in my Hummingbird.
I don't know whether the specs of the guitar affects the choice:

Top Wood: Solid spruce
Side Wood: Mahogany
Back Wood: Mahogany
Neck/Fingerboard Wood: Mahogany neck and rosewood finger board.

I don't want major surgery to be done on the guitar, so something non-invasive is preferable. The brand I hear most of is LR Baggs, so I have checked the site. How does one decide between microphone, soundhole, undersaddle, bridgeplate? I will do some reading anyway, but any advice from you guys to make the decision easier would be greatly appreciated. ?
    How much surgery do you not want?

    You can definitely get away without holes being cut in the sides of the guitar. In most cases you will need to fit an end pin with a jack plug to get a neat installation, but you can do without in the case of sound hole pickups - route the cable out of the hole and over the top.

    The most common solution is the under saddle transducer (UST). That will require a slot and a hole in the bridge.

    Microphones... these are sometimes mounted on goose necks (which require securing to the body) but not always. I have the Baggs Dual Source in both my flat tops, and that has the microphone in a little cube of foam that's fixed inside the back of the guitar with double-sided tape. The Baggs Anthem has the microphone inside a capsule that is fixed on the inside of the guitar under the saddle.

    All the different types of pickups have pros and cons. The most commonly used are the USTs which have a lot of definition and good bottom end, but also can sound a little mechanical (though they are getting a lot better). They also are fairly feedback resistant. This is a very common sound that you hear a lot on records and especially live recordings.

    The sound hole pickups are getting quite sophisticated. The Baggs M1 has two coils, but they are stacked, and the bottom coil has some movement and picks up vibrations from the top and adds these into the mix. This type of pick up is fairly feedback resistant, good for high volume applications.

    My opinion is that if you want fidelity of sound then you start getting that when you combine two different types. I have UST and internal mic fitted to my flat tops - the Baggs Dual Source system. Baggs also offer the i-Mix which combines a UST with their i-Beam bridge plate transducer.

    Most systems will require a battery, and mixing (dual pickup) systems will usually require some sort of pre-amp module. These can be fitted non-destructively, as can the controls. Here's a picture of my Larrivee with the controls and module visible.


    The controls (in this case mix and volume) are on a little plate that is fitted inside the sound hole.

    Baggs is easily available in SA. Fishman is another option with a good reputation, though I don't have personal experience. A VERY good sound hole pickup is the Sunrise, though they're not easy to come by and probably not cheap.

    Expense is always a factor as well. The mixing systems will set you back a bit. The out of box Baggs Dual Source you get here is UST and mic, but Baggs can provide the components separately so you can combine sound hole pickup (not necessarily theirs) with the mic.

    There are very good systems available these days - especially if you want to spend some money ? Add in a good out board pre-amp/DI (D-tar, Baggs Para-DI) and you can get a very good, convincing sound. Or there's a Fishman box that uses modelling to reproduce "classic" acoustic guitar sounds.

    The last few years I've heard some guys in concert with superb acoustic guitar sounds.

    No need to be a purist! In my book using FX with an amplified acoustic is quite acceptable.
      Arjun Menon wrote: +1 on what Bob said.

      Here's another brand that put out a quality product - http://www.kksound.com/acousticguitar.html
      I haven't seen those in the shops in SA, but Hugh Cumming is having those fitted for the Webbers he brings in from Canada. It's a well regarded system.
        +1 on Bob.
        My Cort came with a pre-installed Fishman 4T UST and pre-amp and the sound is fantastic. Every sound tech I have worked with has commented on it. I liked it so much that I built one into my vintage Ibanez 12-string. It meant cutting a hole in the side and drilling a hole at the back but the sound is great and completely worth it. I may have de-valued the guitar but I have no plans of getting rid of it so that is of no consequence to me. Previously I had an older Fishman UST that had no pre-amp and always had a very tinny sound and had to build myself an external pre-amp with tone controls to boost the signal for feeding into a PA and to correct the tone but it always sounded dull.
          With surgery I mean't not cutting holes in the side of the guitar, would definitely want to avoid that.

          Great replies guys, many thanks.

          Bob thanks for taking the time to explain it to a noob, 'preciate it ?

            DonRoos wrote: Previously I had an older Fishman UST that had no pre-amp and always had a very tinny sound and had to build myself an external pre-amp with tone controls to boost the signal for feeding into a PA and to correct the tone but it always sounded dull.
            You've got to pay the fare at some point! If you have a passive pickup in your guitar that signal is going to need boosting at some point. A DI box or external pre-amp (Baggs make a nice little one that clips onto a guitar strap or your trouser belt).

            The commonly fitted systems here are active. The Baggs Element, for example,

            has a little pre-amp built into the end-pin. A neat package (not shown here is a little bag that fits inside the guitar with velcro and which holds the battery). With the more complex Baggs systems (as seen in the photo I included in an earlier post) there is a little pre-amp module that is mounted inside the guitar with double-sided tape (it also has a cool orange LED that lights up when the system is on ?).

            Ah! I just remembered. Installation is crucial! If you go for the UST you need to have the slot properly routed, the saddle should still fit correctly and so on. A bad installation can severely hamper the sound. I recall having problems with a UST that turned out to be a caused by a too tightly fitting saddle.

            Also you will see in the picture above that there is a length of material for the UST. They don't know how long the slot in your guitar is so they make the UST long. It has happened to me (Keira and Fingerpicker will both remember this) that there was a length of material left hanging from the bridge that would resonate at a certain frequency (B, 2nd fret, 5th string in my case) and boom like crazy. All that was needed was to tether than excess length and bingo! no more boom. So a tidy installation with no short cuts pays off.

            If your chosen system has a mic then positioning of the mic makes a big difference. So, again, installation has consequences for the sound.

            Finally, if you go for the sort of mixing system that I went for, you and the tech should read the manual and spend a little time setting the system up. In my case there was a sweepable EQ for the mic, which is used to cut out feedback. Also there were switches for mic in or out of phase with the UST and to put the system in stereo or mono mode. Other systems may have other tweakable features. Understand these and manipulate them.
              Arjun Menon wrote: Somebody..Give that man (Bob) a Bells
              What's second prize? Two Bells?

                X-rated Bob wrote:
                Arjun Menon wrote: Somebody..Give that man (Bob) a Bells
                What's second prize? Two Bells?

                Bushmills
                  X-rated Bob wrote:
                  DonRoos wrote: Previously I had an older Fishman UST that had no pre-amp and always had a very tinny sound and had to build myself an external pre-amp with tone controls to boost the signal for feeding into a PA and to correct the tone but it always sounded dull.

                  Ah! I just remembered. Installation is crucial! If you go for the UST you need to have the slot properly routed, the saddle should still fit correctly and so on. A bad installation can severely hamper the sound. I recall having problems with a UST that turned out to be a caused by a too tightly fitting saddle.
                  What does the routing involve Bob?
                    Reinhard wrote:
                    X-rated Bob wrote:
                    DonRoos wrote: Previously I had an older Fishman UST that had no pre-amp and always had a very tinny sound and had to build myself an external pre-amp with tone controls to boost the signal for feeding into a PA and to correct the tone but it always sounded dull.

                    Ah! I just remembered. Installation is crucial! If you go for the UST you need to have the slot properly routed, the saddle should still fit correctly and so on. A bad installation can severely hamper the sound. I recall having problems with a UST that turned out to be a caused by a too tightly fitting saddle.
                    What does the routing involve Bob?
                    Here's a link to a document on installing a Baggs Element (their UST). This will describe the work required. The general principles will be the same for most USTs.

                    if you just put the transducer in the saddle slot you'll raise the saddle and thus change the action. So there has to be compensation for the thickness of the UST.
                      X-rated Bob wrote:
                      Reinhard wrote:
                      X-rated Bob wrote:
                      DonRoos wrote: Previously I had an older Fishman UST that had no pre-amp and always had a very tinny sound and had to build myself an external pre-amp with tone controls to boost the signal for feeding into a PA and to correct the tone but it always sounded dull.

                      Ah! I just remembered. Installation is crucial! If you go for the UST you need to have the slot properly routed, the saddle should still fit correctly and so on. A bad installation can severely hamper the sound. I recall having problems with a UST that turned out to be a caused by a too tightly fitting saddle.
                      What does the routing involve Bob?
                      Here's a link to a document on installing a Baggs Element (their UST). This will describe the work required. The general principles will be the same for most USTs.

                      if you just put the transducer in the saddle slot you'll raise the saddle and thus change the action. So there has to be compensation for the thickness of the UST.
                      Thanks Bob ?
                        Foster installed a Fishman pickup into an Epiphone 12 string for me years ago. Just the pickup only (under the saddle - no damage to body) and the jackplug went into the belt holder.
                        The sound was entirely controlled at the desk. He did a fantastic job and I'd recommend his work a million times over.
                        http://www.fosterguitarworks.com/ ?
                          DaFiz wrote: Foster installed a Fishman pickup into an Epiphone 12 string for me years ago. Just the pickup only (under the saddle - no damage to body) and the jackplug went into the belt holder.
                          The sound was entirely controlled at the desk. He did a fantastic job and I'd recommend his work a million times over.
                          http://www.fosterguitarworks.com/ ?
                          Hi Dave!
                          I plan on having Foster do the work. He is doing some work on another acoustic for me, so we will discuss the h'bird when I go round to grab my guitar.
                            +1 for Foster.

                            Just note that with a Jumbo if you fit a system with preamp but no tone, you need something voiced to remove some of the low end boominess of those big-bodied guitars. I haven't looked in a while, but one of the Fishman Matrix Naturals (Natural II IIRC) was designed specifically for jumbo.
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