Warren
I'm trying to build my speed and fluidity up so that I've got more tools in my trick bag to colour up my playing. Ideally, I'd like to be at a Thomas Blug, Joe Bonamassa sort of level (probably never quite get there, but that's the combination of techniques that appeals to me).
There are three broad areas I'm working on, in the following order:
1) Alternate picked / legato single note lines (scales and patterns)
2) Tapping patterns (already able to do this a bit better since my last thread about it gave me some good suggestions)
3) Sweep picking (the hardest of the lot to do properly and employ properly, IMO)
For part 1 above, does anyone have any useful little hints that they found helpful when building their speed and accuracy chops? Any particular licks that are widely effective and useful to know?
I already practice regularly with a metronome, running across scales and modes and patterns in a number of varieties. I use that "guitar speed trainer" tool which is actually pretty good in that it helps me add some structure to my session, and also presents the long term goal of being able to play "Flight of the Bumblebee" in its entirety. It forces you to use a variety of different picking techniques and patterns that move me out of my comfort zone.
My playing has improved greatly over the last year in pretty much all respects, and I'm finding that these sorts of technical practice sessions are much more beneficial than just simple noodling around in A or E.
Some things I find a little tricky at the moment:
1) Legato descending runs - if I play these in triplets (think the opening lick of the La Grange solo) I'm fine, because I perform that pull-off motion correctly to sound each note without picking it. However, let's say I just want a simple legato run all the way down a scale shape, across the neck. I struggle to get each note to really sound cleanly, unless I employ a bunch of distortion and compression, and the Chad will shout at me. Is it just more practice I need? Ascending runs I find much easier because the hammer-on action (har har) is easier than the pull-off action for me.
2) Wide stretch 3 note-per-string shapes - this I know is just practice. I'm now finding wide stretch scale shapes achievable, but things become ugly as I crank up the speed. Those Paul Gilbert style licks all employ this sort of thing though, so, metronomes for me...
Any suggestions or anecdotes about your own quests for shred-ville would be great.
BMU
"I'm finding that these sorts of technical practice sessions are much more beneficial than just simple noodling around in A or E."
Sounds like you've got it. Focus and time.
"I'm now finding wide stretch scale shapes achievable, but things become ugly as I crank up the speed. Those Paul Gilbert style licks all employ this sort of thing though, so, metronomes for me"
Gilbert has unnaturally long fingers! I've been doing a lot of diminished string skipping stretches straight from the Gilbert/Per Nilsson lick stable, of the type you describe. Angle the neck up a little - much easier. The rest, again, is just practice.
Warren
BMU wrote:
Gilbert has unnaturally long fingers! I've been doing a lot of diminished string skipping stretches straight from the Gilbert/Per Nilsson lick stable, of the type you describe. Angle the neck up a little - much easier. The rest, again, is just practice.
Yeah, I have very small hands, and my use of a Strat probably doesn't help.
Thanks for the tip! I've noticed that many of these dudes hold the guitar angled up almost in a classical position. Maybe I should give that a try, although when standing the angle will be different again. ☹
BluJu
When I was trying to learn how to shred 3 or so years back it was just a case of sitting in my room alone and trying to see what feels comfortable.
Start with easy shapes. Michael Angelo Batio has some really simple 3 note per string type runs that are very simple to play but sound impressive when done at speed.
I personally find sweep and economy picking to be easier to pickup than some of those weird tapping things so it all comes down to what you can get comfortable with.
And keep practicing it. I lost quite a bit of my speed and accuracy when I effectively stopped practicing for a year but by that time my tastes had shifted so I was not to bothered about regaining the glory.
There is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much on the net when it comes to shred. Tonnes of tutorials and videos ect. It's just a case of finding a couple of licks that you like and practicing them.
This of coarse coming from a mediocre shredder. I hope that some of the more skilled artists here can give there advice.
Warren
BluJu wrote:
When I was trying to learn how to shred 3 or so years back it was just a case of sitting in my room alone and trying to see what feels comfortable.
Start with easy shapes. Michael Angelo Batio has some really simple 3 note per string type runs that are very simple to play but sound impressive when done at speed.
I personally find sweep and economy picking to be easier to pickup than some of those weird tapping things so it all comes down to what you can get comfortable with.
And keep practicing it. I lost quite a bit of my speed and accuracy when I effectively stopped practicing for a year but by that time my tastes had shifted so I was not to bothered about regaining the glory.
There is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO much on the net when it comes to shred. Tonnes of tutorials and videos ect. It's just a case of finding a couple of licks that you like and practicing them.
This of coarse coming from a mediocre shredder. I hope that some of the more skilled artists here can give there advice.
No, this is great thanks!
I've got some good licks (one of which is a Michael Angelo Batio lick) that can be adapted and changed around and I'm working on those, so it's solid advice.
I've also found that as I've been able to play faster in general, it becomes less of a hassle to add variations or new shapes.
BMU
Warren wrote:
BMU wrote:
Gilbert has unnaturally long fingers! I've been doing a lot of diminished string skipping stretches straight from the Gilbert/Per Nilsson lick stable, of the type you describe. Angle the neck up a little - much easier. The rest, again, is just practice.
Yeah, I have very small hands, and my use of a Strat probably doesn't help.
Thanks for the tip! I've noticed that many of these dudes hold the guitar angled up almost in a classical position. Maybe I should give that a try, although when standing the angle will be different again. ☹
Yah. I recall Jeff Loomis (I think it was him) saying he goes down on one knee to reach some of those stretches; necessity disguised as a flashy stage move HAHA.
Malkav
To be honest I'd just go ahead and say get John Petrucci's Rock Discipline DVD, it's like a bible of how to shred with proper technique. Many of the exercises target weak points and help build on them, unfortunately not all of them are pleasant sounding but I can guarantee 100% that if you get that DVD and you actually sit with it properly not only will it give you lots of great exercises and warm ups but it'll literally have you tanking up within a month or two...
Also Guthrie Govan's Creative Guitar books are great for more musical exercises and to steal licks from ?
Now it is possible to find on Youtube, almost impossible to find in print, but Shawn Lane also has two instructional videos (If you've never heard of him change that now.) and he was pretty much the fastest guitarist ever (The flight of the bumblebee record attempt guys can suck it ?).
Actually you know what, here they are:
Here's the other one:
I hope this is of some help to you, I also highly recommend always playing clean - no delay, no compression, no overdrive and only after you have mastered the playing mechanics of what you do should any of these things come into play. You'll find practicing with a super clean sound will be the most beneficial to your accenting and overall ability to play things "cleanly" or with the correct "pronounciation" if you will, but afterwards you've gotta throw on the gain and practice like that (from a low tempo again) in order to make sure you have your muting down and that the guitar is completely under your control.
Warren
+1 thanks guys. ?
I see loot.co.za has the DVD, though it's Region 1. Might order it anyhow.
Manfred-Klose
chad you have just melted my brain with all those shawn lane videos............would be cool to have something like that on DVD.
Malkav
Manfred Klose wrote:
chad you have just melted my brain with all those shawn lane videos............would be cool to have something like that on DVD.
Go to www.keepvid.com then paste the Youtube URL and download the video, it's a once off use of your bandwidth and you'll have it in mp4 or flv format. You can then either convert it or if you have a more modern DVD player or one of those portable hardrive usb interface thingies you should be able to watch it on a TV. It's generally what I do with Youtube videos cause I don't like wasting cap if I wanna see them again ?
Warren wrote:
I see loot.co.za has the DVD, though it's Region 1. Might order it anyhow.
You must have the Rock Discipline DVD, I am not joking it is amazing, so just make it happen. I don't know how but I really can't stress enough how good that video is for technique, and yes I'm a huge Petrucci fanboy ? but honestly objectively if I had to pick one instructional video to stick with forever it would be that one, and I have a ton of instructional videos by lots of equally jaw dropping players, but Petrucci & Lane have a way of explaining stuff that just kinda works. With the Shawn Lane videos I pretty much constantly pick up small little technique tips that make me sit around going damn that's obvious why didn't I think of that? Just major amounts of lightbulb moments involving little factors such as pick angle or hand posture etc ?
Manfred-Klose
Insert Quote
Quote from: Manfred Klose on Today at 03:46:27 pm
chad you have just melted my brain with all those shawn lane videos............would be cool to have something like that on DVD.
Go to www.keepvid.com then paste the Youtube URL and download the video, it's a once off use of your bandwidth and you'll have it in mp4 or flv format. You can then either convert it or if you have a more modern DVD player or one of those portable hardrive usb interface thingies you should be able to watch it on a TV. It's generally what I do with Youtube videos cause I don't like wasting cap if I wanna see them again Cheesy
yes thanks i know about, i got me one of those downloaders.
will do it sometime.
Malkav
Joe Moore wrote:
"The worlds toughest shredders never jam "
It's cause they're all too busy sitting in their room trying their hardest to squeeze out one more note per second in the belief that it'll somehow translate to them being better musicians, little do they realise the average person is just as impressed with the guitarist of Greenday spitting out 3 bar chords a song as they would be with Guthrie Govan seemlessly blowing over changes so hard it seems to leave my mind full of FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU....................
Jack-Flash-Jr
We had a shredder join us on stage at G-Spot the other night - he was adept at fitting in with blues and blues-rock forms while keeping the shred... very cool.
Malkav
Jack Flash Jr wrote:
We had a shredder join us on stage at G-Spot the other night - he was adept at fitting in with blues and blues-rock forms while keeping the shred... very cool.
They are a rare breed, though magical when you do find them ? Nothing better than jaw dropping technique being a vehicle for unstoppable expression, unfortunately with people who play fast this is not the norm.
ZarK
Warren wrote:
Yeah, I have very small hands, and my use of a Strat probably doesn't help.
Small hands and a Fender the limiting factor? Check this out. ? ...Inspirational at very least.
arjunmenon
Chad Adam Browne wrote:
To be honest I'd just go ahead and say get John Petrucci's Rock Discipline DVD, it's like a bible of how to shred with proper technique. Many of the exercises target weak points and help build on them, unfortunately not all of them are pleasant sounding but I can guarantee 100% that if you get that DVD and you actually sit with it properly not only will it give you lots of great exercises and warm ups but it'll literally have you tanking up within a month or two...
Also Guthrie Govan's Creative Guitar books are great for more musical exercises and to steal licks from ?
Now it is possible to find on Youtube, almost impossible to find in print, but Shawn Lane also has two instructional videos (If you've never heard of him change that now.) and he was pretty much the fastest guitarist ever (The flight of the bumblebee record attempt guys can suck it ?).
? I knew Chad was going to chip in here with something truly terrifying. Exactly why i didn't chip earlier. Great job Chad!
+1 on JP's Rock Discipline, GG's Creative Guitar 1 & 2 (are there any more?) and Shawn Lane's Power Solos and Power Licks (incidentally, i have them both in print and soft copies backed up on a hard drive)
Warren
Resurrecting an old topic, but thought I'd mention something that happened yesterday.
So after a fair amount of work on improving alternate picking speed, I just couldn't seem to see the gains I was hoping for. Left hand is cruising along, right hand just unable to match it.
Last night, on a whim, I picked up one of the older picks I used to use. These are the normal sized, large-ish picks that I suspect lots of us started with (/uninstall if you use a Sharkfin). I switched to Jazz type picks (the Tortex ones) a while ago since I found them pretty comfortable.
Anyhow, messing around with the old, large pick and "boom": the right hand is just flying across the strings. I reckon with some more dedicated practice with these picks, I'll be on my way to where I want to be.
Reason the easier feel is two-fold:
1) The larger pick is easier to "wedge" into place in my fingers, which means that for fast passages it's really nice and stable. The jazz pick is a bit too "loose" in comparison, unless I grip it crazy tight and I can't do that for long. Because the large pick is stable, the contact with the string is still positive but the pick moves "through" the string much more, uh, confidently? In other words, the string isn't "stopping" the pick from moving through it.
2) The larger pick has a blunter sharp-end, which means it's less sticky as it moves across the strings. If I want more serious contact, I can just change the angle. For the fast passages I increase the "slice" somewhat and still got good enough note articulation, but much easier movement across strings.
Such a simple thing. I'm no shredder (yet), but I have renewed confidence in my playing ability and most importantly in my ability to progress with practice. I was feeling like my right-hand picking speed had plateaued and I wasn't going to get any better at it.
FruitarGeek
This is interesting. Seeming as most shredders use smaller picks. I feel like a brute when ever I switch back to the bigger plectrums.
Have you considered that it could also be a pyschological thing? Sometimes we play, and think we can't get a tempo, but if we really apply ourselfs, we can. Also, im sure you were not expecting such resuts thus you were playing more relaxed. And as you have heard often Im sure, real speed (and accurate playing) comes from playing relaxed and not tensing your muscles!
On a side note... How is your hand synchronization? I feel my left hand is pretty darn fast, and my right hand is also pretty good. But together they are useless. I mean dont get me wrong, I can get enough speed for now, but its like I am not reaching my hands full potential. They are both currently operating at 60% as opposed to 100% ☹
BMU
@Warren - point 1 sounds more like the type of benefit I'd associate with using a thicker pick. But hey if it works, it works.
I swear by 3mm stubbies. They're like little plastic pebbles you could skim across a pond. I'm sure I'd get the pick hopelessly stuck if I tried large flat (1mm thick) picks ever again.
Warren
You guys are right, most shredders seem to favour the small jazz type picks.
@BMU
I also tried stubbies for a while, and I really liked them at first. The problem was that they became much too slippery during practice / gigs when I started sweating, and I struggled to use them effectively for rhythm (which was 90% of my work).
@FG
I think it's at least partially psychological, yes. There is a definite 'mechanical' difference as I described, but somehow it just 'feels' more natural with the larger pick, which is counter-intuitive. Interestingly, the actual point of the pick that I use is, in both cases, very small. Only a tiny part of the pick protrudes for making contact with the strings. The bigger pick just gives me more to hold onto.
My hand synchronisation is not really great, so that's why I've been working so much on this particular technique. However, after much practice I didn't feel I was making visible progress in this area, until suddenly last night it felt much more natural with the big and nasty pick. ?
I think that it's also just development as a player. I'll probably find that once I've built the speed and my muscle memory is developed to the point that it feels normal, I'll be able to push for that speed with any type of pick, give or take. But right now it's dinner-plate picks for me. ?
