I expressed my opinion about this quite some time ago, and it remains the same: "I'd much rather just know what I'm paying, up-front."

I find it frustrating to be mentally deducting amounts from all the stuff on display to attempt to figure out what I'm really going to be paying. In my opinion, if everything in your store is up for at least a 20% or greater discount, well then it's not really a discount and you're not fooling anybody.

Some people mentioned that I'm doing myself in by not haggling, but that's not what I was saying: I certainly do ask for my discount since I know that's how things work. But I actually rather dislike haggling when in a retail store (haggling over a private sale is another matter) and I'd much rather just have accurate sticker prices for everything.

If I then ask for a further discount and want to try and haggle the guys down, that's fine, but I get the impression that every item in a music store has a fictitious price-tag just so that there's some leeway to bargain with (and that's not really what bargaining is, right?).

I'd just like to see some kind of consistent system.

Musical instrument shops are just a mystery.

All I know at present is that the sticker price has nothing to do with reality. I get discounts when I don't ask, or I pay X for something and found out my best buddy - who never goes into that shop - got it cheaper the day before. I sometimes find prices in a shop on a day changing depending on who you speak to. I've had prices given to me verbally or over the phone only to go to the shop and find that now the price is something quite different (could be higher, could be lower).

There should be some flexibility built in so that shops can reward regular customers, but at the moment prices seem to be governed by the mood of the salesperson you're dealing with, the alignment of mars and saggitarius and what he saw when he read the tea leaves. I don't know why they don't just stick some random prices on a dartboard and give you three throws whilst you're blind folded.

I find that I get better prices if I go into a shop than if I call - but that shouldn't be the case. I can think of at least one shop who are losing business because the price they give you over the phone is significantly higher than what you'll get if you walk in. They must know that to be the case, so why quote the higher price on the phone?

It's a constant puzzle and sometimes a bit more than that dealing with musical instrument retailers.

I like the idea of the lowest price advertised on the item up front.

But, I also like two prices on the tag.
The retail price, and also the less 25% price...everyone knows you can get less 25% from any retail music store, so why not bypass the "3rd world open air produce market" system and get straight to the point.

Less 25% leaves an additional 5% discount up for negotiation...depending on the specific item, who the buyer is, etc, etc.

Tokai SA wrote: I like the idea of the lowest price advertised on the item up front.

But, I also like two prices on the tag.
The retail price, and also the less 25% price...everyone knows you can get less 25% from any retail music store, so why not bypass the "3rd world open air produce market" system and get straight to the point.

Less 25% leaves an additional 5% discount up for negotiation...depending on the specific item, who the buyer is, etc, etc.

I'd support having the two price tags, since showing the higher RRP and then the lower "street price" could actually work in the store's favour in general.

I prefer seeing the price that i am gonna pay .... but i must say buying music kit has now given me the view that i ask for discount everywhere these days an generally get it ....from cars to ipods.

still gotta get a yes from a pick n pay cashier though ?

However , an i have to be honest i am still gonna as i know there is room for improvment on price (from my perspective anyway) ...haggling has given me some favulous deals in the past because i do a bit of homework and i am prepared to walk out.

This Bataring system is the sign a noncompetitive market. If one music shop stopped with this silly system
and advertised the correct prices they would all have to.

Mr T wrote:Would you prefer to see the lowest price advertised on the item up front?
...
Or do you prefer the current way of things - getting a good deal because the store gives you a discount?

I most definitely prefer option A. I'd like to be able to browse through a store and form an opinion about what is out there and what it costs. I don't understand option B anyway. Why do I get discount? If the discounted price is not the standard price, what does that mean? Do some people get discount and others not?

Whenever I ask for a price at the Oriental Plaza, a street vendor or the likes, I really have to keep myself from laughing when I'm told "R200 but for you only R150". WTF!?!?! What makes me so special? And if I am so special that for me the price automatically comes down, does it mean there is some other poor sucker who is less special than me and who would have to pay full price? No. Everyone is special - which of course means that nobody is.

To me the most annoying thing about not seeing the price tags on instruments (or pedals or whatever) is that I often visit a music shop just to browse and form an opinion. Nothing makes me feel more stupid than having to constantly ask "how much is this?", "how much is that?", "and this one here?", "and those over there?". It's annoying to me and I'm sure it's annoying to the salesman.

oh gosh please can we see the real prices...

What annoys me especially is that I'll do research online about a specific piece of gear and have an idea about price - but then when I actually do the effort of going instore it's impossible to do a comparison. you can ask a salesperson about what the 'actual price' is but even then you know he might be leaving himself some extra room for negotiation. it's the main reason why I prefer shopping online for gear.

I think the stores might be the most reluctant though.. discounts are used to pressure people into sales...

The trouble is that by setting the selling price, you are ascribing a one-size-fits-all to the price. Discounts vary, but the RRP gives you a figure to calculate the different selling prices from.

I used to value the fact that as a "pro" I got a better price than a casual one-time buyer walking in off the street. Similarly, a studio, radio station or other regular big purchaser should know that he gets the best price possible. IMO it inspires loyalty in store and - in many cases - product lines too, and to some degree, the low discount buyer subsidises the pro and the store can still cover its overheads and make a profit. Frankly it ticks me off that I have spent hundreds of thousands in one store over the years, but now johnny-come-lately has the same purchasing power that I do. Maybe I'm naive and those days are gone.

Setting a fixed selling price also kills the possibility of the store throwing together "package deals", where they will throw in a bunch of free product (strings, plectra, case, books, etc.) with a purchase that together add up to a bigger discount than the buyer would usually get but still works out with a higher profit margin for the store than the same item discounted normally. This kind of thing benefits both buyer and seller.

A set "pre-discounted" price also creates a lower perceived value of the product - and you will find that most of your manufacturers are more worried about their product's perceived value than the discounts you give - and for good reason.

Quite honestly, the price issues have nothing to do with the discount structure (although distributors setting a minimum selling price should eliminate any ridiculous price/discount wars between different stores). Local stores will increasingly find it more difficult to compete against the big international sellers until the local distributors man up and tackle the manufacturers on supplying them product at a price that enables them to compete fairly without costing the end users more. That is where both the disparity and the solution lies - between manufacturer and distributor.

@ Alan. I must disagree with what you are saying about a regular or larger customer getting a better price. I think that in a coffee shop that holds. Give that dude who comes in everyday a free sarmie once in a while.
I also think that one should get a traders discount if lets say Bothner were to purchase from TOMS but with standard gear a shop should be 100% consistent to what price it shows to you or me.
I think anything else is unprofessional.

A shop could still do package deals but they should be available to any customer independent of their skills to bargain.
Obviously if I were to spend 300 grand in one day I would be within my rights to ask for a small discount but I would do the same thing at any other medium size retailer.

Thomann in Germany is a great store and I would love to see one of the large music shops already in business set up an online catalog with "real" prices.
This would force the others to follow suite in order to stay relevant. I do like the personal attention in a music store so that still has some value but it is not as relevant as it once was.

I am sure that the retailers consider the customer and what the knock-on benefit would be as well. OK, so the guy on the floor knows what he can offer the item for to a customer. But there is at least one definite case where someone I know will get a better price for equipment than I will because he presents a particular outlet with quite a bit of custom. And then there was a little music store out in the gamadoelas that used to give me some excellent prices and I even saw people paying quite a bit more for things than I was. And for a while I thought the chic .. you know .. sort of ... well you know? But that wasnt the case it turned out it was just because I went there quite often and bought quite a bit of stuff from them. Ag anyway, that's just the way it is. So I'm still saving myself for someone special.

But the way I do it is that I like to get in contact with the distributor if possible and check what they will sell it to me for - if they deal directly with the public. Quite often they do the moral thing and wont go below what the outlets will sell for. And morals are such a drag you know.

But another thing I have found is that you go into a store and you say I want a TU-3. And the guy tells you the price he can give it to you for. And then you say but I think I'll take a BD-2 as well. And all of a sudden the TU-2 is cheaper and the BD-2 is also a good price. And you add on two boxes of EJ17's and a few more bucks disappear and you never got strings so cheap in your life.

So I think that a lot has to do with how much is being moved in your direction.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Frankly it ticks me off that I have spent hundreds of thousands in one store over the years, but now johnny-come-lately has the same purchasing power that I do. Maybe I'm naive and those days are gone.

Yep, this annoys me too and I lose faith in the credibility of the store.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Setting a fixed selling price also kills the possibility of the store throwing together "package deals", where they will throw in a bunch of free product (strings, plectra, case, books, etc.) with a purchase that together add up to a bigger discount than the buyer would usually get but still works out with a higher profit margin for the store than the same item discounted normally. This kind of thing benefits both buyer and seller.

I disagree with this argument Alan. We all know that you get nothing for free. I don't like being suckered into the extras that I might not have actually wanted. I will make the choice as the customer when and what I buy. Tell me the actual price and I will make an informed decision. Also tell me upfront what my discount is as a loyal customer, a professional or a business.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: A set "pre-discounted" price also creates a lower perceived value of the product - and you will find that most of your manufacturers are more worried about their product's perceived value than the discounts you give - and for good reason.

I also disagree with this. Repeated discounting does more damage to a brand's image than selling to the advertised price. Also, advertising at an inflated price makes the item potentially out of reach of a some buyers. This is like shooting yourself in the foot.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: Local stores will increasingly find it more difficult to compete against the big international sellers until the local distributors man up and tackle the manufacturers on supplying them product at a price that enables them to compete fairly without costing the end users more. That is where both the disparity and the solution lies - between manufacturer and distributor.

I don't care what goes on between the manufacturer and the retailer as long as there is not price fixing. The retailer must advertise his price and I will make a decision to buy or not on the perceived value of the item plus the after-sales service and the soft issue of whether I like doing business with the shop concerned.

I must say that all this inflated pricing and discounting does nothing for the image of the retail music industry or the distributors and, as a consumer, I don't really trust them because of this. I always feel that I have to be on my guard rather than what they wan't me to feel, 'grateful because I was given a discount.'

I totally agree with Alan on this... I would rather know that I get more discount at my local store than someone else that oes not buy there often. And this is the way that stores can give us (the regulars) a better price on stuff. But then again, I don't have a problem asking what the best price is they can give me.

I am all for bartering and love to shop in countries where it the norm. Your mind set is different and when you are offered a price you automatically offer 1/4 in return and then the bartering starts with a lot of banter and humour thrown in. It is a pleasant experience generally.

I SA, very few shops allow bartering. Our western culture does not lend itself to bartering. So when I walk into a music store, I would prefer to see the price I am going to pay with a little room to barter if I am a special customer or for package deals. What the current system lends itself to is pricing based on how much the salesman likes you. Great deals for sexy chicks and pro musicians or old friends, poor deals for the rest and this will depend on all sorts or stereo-typing. I mostly land up with the bad deals so I am being disadvantaged. For those that regularly get a great deal they are being subsadised by me and I resent that.

When I go into a store, I want to know that if a friend goes into the store he will be offered the same price. I know for a fact that that is not happening. Guys in my band have been given bigger discounts than me and for no explicable reason. I get offered a 'discount' in one store and then find the exact same product at a lower price at another store. That tells me that the store owner does not value my custom and will offer me the minimum to appear generous. I now watch prices carefully and buy when I think the price is as low as I am going to get. Sometimes that is in a sale and sometimes it can be bartered. Unfortunately our culture makes bartering a negative thing and you actually feel embarrased doing it and it can turn nasty so I try and avoid it if at all possible.

One price on the sticker - the proper price. ONLY for a sale the ticket can give the regular price and the sale price but I am not an idiot and know when I am being lied to. Marking the regular price up and then giving me the same discount is offensive to me.

Jacquesg4j wrote: I totally agree with Alan on this... I would rather know that I get more discount at my local store than someone else that oes not buy there often. And this is the way that stores can give us (the regulars) a better price on stuff. But then again, I don't have a problem asking what the best price is they can give me.

I don't know about that. It bothers me that when a mate calls me and says "dude I want a steel string for under 2 grand" or whatever I can't just say go to where and where and they will give you some great advice.
I have to make sure that he is not getting taken for a ride. It doesn't bother me one bit that Joe-Whoever can get the same price for a good as me at TOMS even though I've spent untold fortunes there.
What does bother me is James who knows the salesman a bit better than I do and has good haggling skills can get it cheaper than I can.

I'd much prefer music stores to stick to retail so I don't feel like I'm robbing them if I get a huge discount or push for one. They need to make money to stay open and provide us with gear…

Then again, don't think of music gear as normal retail, think of guitars etc like you think of motor vehicles. High price yet low stock.
I'm undecided

Cool topic.

I'm with Alan on this one ?

For me it's a cool feeling to cruise into the local music store and have the sales people sort you out because you're a regular and you support them.

I've had plenty of my mates ask for help and advice on buying gear - from drum sticks and strings to guitars and drum kits - over the years. I've actually done the homework for them (and the sales person ?), gone into said shop with my mate and got a sweet deal on some cool gear for them. The shop is happy, my mate is happy and I'm happy that I could help someone out and keep getting good service and good prices for gear.

I'm not a big fan of haggling. I just want to know that I'll get great service,great gear and great prices for supporting the shop of my choice.

I must disagree with what you are saying about a regular or larger customer getting a better price. I think that in a coffee shop that holds. Give that dude who comes in everyday a free sarmie once in a while.

You've got to compare apples to apples here I think. Different industries selling completely different products have different ways of doing bussines and obviously different pricing and discount structures. It's all up to the individual shop owner and type of industry /product in the end I guess :-\

still gotta get a yes from a pick n pay cashier though

Classic. Reckon I'll try that just for a laugh.

"Hi There. I think this block of cheddar is a bit on the pricey side. Could I possibly haggle you down a rand or 2?"
"Or maybe you could throw in a tomato and an onion as I have over R500 worth of groceries in my trolley?"
Not so sure that will work ?

Guitar store pricing is a bit of a running joke I'm afraid. Kinda like those Verimark adds - But wait! That's not all! You also get yadayadayada blah blah... I find it lame and insulting actually. There might have been a time when pros and regulars could qualify for a 'loyalty' discount or whatever, but that time has gone. Music store discount is an open secret now and anybody, regardless of competence or loyalty can google an online price for reference, so who are they fooling by inflating their markup? Naah dude, tell me the rrp is X, you pay cash I sell it to you for X - Y% and if you buy more than Z qty of an item or R value in total, you get it at X - Q%.

Donovan Banks wrote: I'd much prefer music stores to stick to retail so I don't feel like I'm robbing them if I get a huge discount or push for one. They need to make money to stay open and provide us with gear…

Then again, don't think of music gear as normal retail, think of guitars etc like you think of motor vehicles. High price yet low stock.
I'm undecided

? you're kidding hey Don...?