I am also trying Jazz, but maybe the direction you are trying is best.

I try listening and trusting my ear but it's the long way round, but what a good way of learning all the notes on your guitar, I must give it a bash

watching this thread ?

sight reading is nothing but lots and lots of practise reading everyday .......

the reality is that 5 staff notation is NOT ideal for guitar

think of a piano the notes start at the right at the lowest and get higher in pitch as you move to the left ..........BUT no note of the piano repeats itself in the same pitch ......... so if a note is say written on the staff then there's only one option on piano..however on guitar as you must know notes of the same pitch repeat themselves some up to 3 times.so when you see that note written on the staff.....on guitar you actually have the choice of 2 or 3 notes that is the intended one.. see the problem......

so yes TAB is he most practicle for guitar ....... and from what i remember from music history is that a type of 6 line staff ( not the same but the same principle as modern TAB) was used for guitar way back in the days of early classical ..but that was forced to change to 5 line staff by the musical authorities of the time........so yes now we back to TAB ......( 6 line staff) which is more practical

i must encourage everyone to learn to read music as in understand what is writen on 5 line staff . know how to write out the rhythms ect .... BUT unless you about to study music ( as in universiy ) understand 5 line staff but no need to learn to sight read it (remember sight reading takes hours a day to get to a level where you can sight read a piece instantly ) and this time is all time you could spend studying theory and spend working on your technique..........

so to sum up i'm all for learning to understand a written sheet of music in 5 line staff..... but learning to sight read is time consuming and not neccessary anymore as TAB is available for everything these days ........ even classical music has been transcribed to TAB ........ jazz too

anyway for the jazz players all you need is a chord chart and a simple notation of the melody ...... ( called the head) the rest is improvised and NOT written out in full as classical music is ( so if you understand 5 note staff it's very easy to work out the melody ....then the rest is up to you knowing more theory in how chords and scales and harmony notes are related.........than how to read ....


but if you really wanna read just practise practise practise ? then practise some more and remember learning to read is NOT difficult it's like learning to read words in a language ..even 10yr olds can sight read music just work at it

I agree with Keira that sight-reading is not essential for playing jazz. Jazz guitar is very much about improvised lines and interesting/strange chord harmonies, neither of which get anything from sight-reading. Django Reinhart couldn't read at all, I believe.

I reckon that you DO need an excellent grasp of theory, and then you need to top that off with a good ear that is sensitive to what the band is doing so that you can bend all those rules. ?

I taught myself to read music and I believe it has been invaluable not only for guitar playing but also for musical arrangements. Sometimes I write out parts for the band which start with writing a score and then transcribing each part for each instrument. It can be time-consuming but in the long run it saves time when you come to practice. In scoring the music it's not my intention to rescrict the other musos but to give them a starting point upon which to develop their part.

So, I reckon if you plan to do more with music than to just play guitar, it's wonderful to be able to sight read.

Also recently I played in a show and to be able to read the music gave me an efficient headstart.

I can't say that I can sight read a piece the first time a part is put in front of me that well, but by the second run-through I'm pretty proficient.

So yeah, I'm glad I learned to read and write musical notation.

PeteM wrote: I taught myself to read music and I believe it has been invaluable not only for guitar playing but also for musical arrangements. Sometimes I write out parts for the band which start with writing a score and then transcribing each part for each instrument. It can be time-consuming but in the long run it saves time when you come to practice. In scoring the music it's not my intention to rescrict the other musos but to give them a starting point upon which to develop their part.

So, I reckon if you plan to do more with music than to just play guitar, it's wonderful to be able to sight read.

Also recently I played in a show and to be able to read the music gave me an efficient headstart.

I can't say that I can sight read a piece the first time a part is put in front of me that well, but by the second run-through I'm pretty proficient.

So yeah, I'm glad I learned to read and write musical notation.

Looks like Theory and Reading music seems like a good thing!
Pete, was it difficult?

Squonk wrote: Looks like Theory and Reading music seems like a good thing!
Pete, was it difficult?

No, not difficult, but as Keira says, "practice, practice and more practice."
I've heard it said that it's easier to learn to sight read than it is to touch-type.

No I can touch type. Its pretty easy hahaha well compared to sight reading atleast.

Well the reason I am into sight reading is that I want to audition for the Stellenbosch Jazz band, maybe not this year, but definitely next year, and my friend who is the resident bassist tells me you have to sight read, But I think it was more for the reasons mentioned already by Keira so that the guitar can play the melody.

FruitarGeek wrote: and my friend who is the resident bassist tells me you have to sight read, But I think it was more for the reasons mentioned already by Keira so that the guitar can play the melody.

It's a bit more than that, like knowing where you are in the piece of music - when a guitar solo or riff occurs, following repeats, when it's time to go to the Coda, being able follow when there is a time signature change or key change in the middle of the pice etc. i.e. being able to follow the 'geography' of the piece.

Thanks Pete.

Well Im learning as many chords as possible, and most sheets should have chords on top, so I could theoretically get away with that right?

FruitarGeek wrote: Thanks Pete.

Well Im learning as many chords as possible, and most sheets should have chords on top, so I could theoretically get away with that right?

Yip. It might be that the chords are written within the stave thus , A7sus4 / A7 / and then within a given bar the notation might be written out for a specific riff or a the whole guitar solo across 8, 12 or 16 bars etc.

Keira WitherKay wrote:think of a piano the notes start at the right at the lowest and get higher in pitch as you move to the left

So that's why I find sight reading so difficult. I always thought the notes lower in pitch are to the left while the higher pitched notes are to the right :-\

No but seriously, this is an interesting discussion, I'll keep an eye on it. I might add one or two things though.

Some musicians have a natural aptitude for sight reading while others have a natural aptitude for playing by ear. It's usual one or the other, rarely both. Or maybe I should say, most musicians are naturally more adept at one than the other. This doesn't mean that you can't practice the other one.

I for one am definitely stronger at playing from ear than at sight reading. As a result I also tend to neglect my sight reading and rely more on playing by ear. I can sight read (piano that is) but I've neglected it so much that I'm pretty useless at it these days.

It's certainly a useful skill but I don't think it's absolutely necessary. Like Keira says, for fingerstyle guitar you don't even need fully transcribed music. A lead sheet will do just fine. I'm personally not very good at Jazz as I've never really made an effort of learning jazz chords but it is something I'm interested in and would like to pursue.

Another thing about staff notation specifically for guitar is that it's written an octave higher than played. Most probably because of the range of the guitar. I don't think they wanted to make it even harder for us by writing guitar music in the tenor clef. Imagine that. I play in the UCT big band, and in general, charts aren't hard to follow, but as mentioned earlier following the form, stabs that the horns may, play right rhythms at the right time, and even reading melody lines is important. Every rehearsal is basically a sight reading session as the charts we get, we have to almost play perfectly (sight reading), and if we don't conductor wants to fire you from the band. I've learnt a great deal about reading, and kept my reading in check with two big band rehearsals a week.

On reading: I try to practice (reading) as much as possible, and read uncommon rhythms - this is where reading jazz standards is cool, the rhythms aren't as straight forward as reading classical music for example, where you have very 'on-the-beat-rhythms'. VERY IMPORTANT: practice sight reading with a metronome, and avoid reading something more than twice, as it won't really be 'sight' reading anymore.

I can highly recommend anyone to practice sight reading as it is an invaluable skill that can get you many, many gigs. I play quite a few theatre shows, and have never come accross tabs. Did 'Grease' last year, and because of the show being very guitar-driven, was a very challenging read, and musical directors (like producers in the studio) expect you to nail your stuff first time.

And checking what key you're in, checking the range you'll be playing in by checking out the music before hand, and work on a position (or mode) that you would use for that.

Just my 2c ?

Well this is funny. 2 Extreme opposites are presented here.

On the one hand, sight reading isn't that essential, and on the other, its very essential. ???

FruitarGeek wrote: Well this is funny. 2 Extreme opposites are presented here.

On the one hand, sight reading isn't that essential, and on the other, its very essential. ???

There are different applications - if your'e going to play in a big band/orchestra this requires that everyone plays their parts right, so reading is essential - also as a session musician as the MD will expect you get it right first time due to time and studio costs.

Playing in a rock, blues, pop or jazz band doesn't really need sight reading although it can be useful as I explained earlier.

deefstes wrote: Some musicians have a natural aptitude for sight reading while others have a natural aptitude for playing by ear. It's usual one or the other, rarely both.

I disagree - I use both as have many pro musos I have played with over the years.

PeteM wrote:

deefstes wrote: Some musicians have a natural aptitude for sight reading while others have a natural aptitude for playing by ear. It's usual one or the other, rarely both.

I disagree - I use both as have many pro musos I have played with over the years.

I'm not a pro muso so I'm in no position to argue with you but are you telling me that your natural aptitude for sheet reading and for playing by ear is equally strong? I'm not saying that most musician can do only one OR the other but it seems to me that, in most cases, one of the two just seems to come more naturally for different individuals while the other one requires more work.

Like I said though, that is my limited experience but I'm not a pro.

deefstes wrote:

PeteM wrote:

deefstes wrote: Some musicians have a natural aptitude for sight reading while others have a natural aptitude for playing by ear. It's usual one or the other, rarely both.

I disagree - I use both as have many pro musos I have played with over the years.

I'm not a pro muso so I'm in no position to argue with you but are you telling me that your natural aptitude for sheet reading and for playing by ear is equally strong? I'm not saying that most musician can do only one OR the other but it seems to me that, in most cases, one of the two just seems to come more naturally for different individuals while the other one requires more work.

Like I said though, that is my limited experience but I'm not a pro.

During my early days of playing they developed together. I get as much pleasure learning a number from music notation as I do working it out by ear. Sometimes I like to read a book and other times I like to listen to a well narrated story. ?