Donovan Banks wrote: there are so few details here, what's going on in this thread?

.....exactly , ......... , can anyone shed further light on this please ?

How much do you think the shop paid for the gem?

I still don't know exact facts or details of how this guitar was discovered and how much was paid by the shop for it etc , but Stuart from Marshall Music in Woodmead is currently in the USA , delivering the guitar to Richard Henry Guitars , who have been given the sole rights to sell the guitar................


Heres a pic :







8) Heres some links :

www.mylespaul.com/forums/2139167-post14.html

http://cgi.ebay.com/1960-Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-Vintage-Tiger-Stripe-/140464208512?pt=Guitar&hash=item20b451ba80

The export of some of our vintage gems is nothing new. At R970,000 this an excellent buy and was it not for the plugged bigbsy holes it would have been a lot more imho. These guitars could easily fetch $250k ?

joel wrote:

Donovan Banks wrote: there are so few details here, what's going on in this thread?

.....exactly , ......... , can anyone shed further light on this please ?

This guitar is currently on consignment with a UK dealer and is in Dallas for the Arlington Guitar Show.
I highly doubt it will sell for the asking price of $137,500.

Vintage Guitar wrote:

This guitar is currently on consignment with a UK dealer and is in Dallas for the Arlington Guitar Show.
I highly doubt it will sell for the asking price of $137,500.

Economic reasons ? .....Bigsby ?.

As a vintage guitar collector why do you think this ?

joel wrote:

Vintage Guitar wrote:

This guitar is currently on consignment with a UK dealer and is in Dallas for the Arlington Guitar Show.
I highly doubt it will sell for the asking price of $137,500.

Economic reasons ? .....Bigsby ?.

As a vintage guitar collector why do you think this ?

There is far better 1958-1960 Les Paul Stock available for the same sort of money.
This particular late 1960 example also has the least desirable features and a Bigsby removal.
Thin neck, reflector knobs and the tomato soup colour.

Question: What did said lady get for the guitar?

Vintage Guitar wrote:

joel wrote:

Vintage Guitar wrote:

This guitar is currently on consignment with a UK dealer and is in Dallas for the Arlington Guitar Show.
I highly doubt it will sell for the asking price of $137,500.

Economic reasons ? .....Bigsby ?.

As a vintage guitar collector why do you think this ?

There is far better 1958-1960 Les Paul Stock available for the same sort of money.
This particular late 1960 example also has the least desirable features and a Bigsby removal.
Thin neck, reflector knobs and the tomato soup colour.

Here is a less original example for a lot more...a '60 for $185000 www.gruhn.com

and a '59 with no "Les Paul model" logo for $199000. Click inventory and then Gibson solidbody electrics...

X-rated Bob wrote: Question: What did said lady get for the guitar?

I can only guess...hope she 's an informed person

I see the said '60 LP is now on eBay for a buy it now price of $190,000

http://cgi.ebay.com/1960-Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-Vintage-Tiger-Stripe-/140464208512?pt=Guitar&hash=item20b451ba80

Gruhn's have a 1960 Les Paul Standard for a piddling $135000. They note that there is a small repair to a crack (not a break) on the headstock.

They also list the weight for most of their old Les Pauls. This particular one is 8 pounds, but they have a late 50's LP custom at 10lbs 7oz.

Does the weight influence the desirability and thus the price of the instrument?

vic wrote:

X-rated Bob wrote: Question: What did said lady get for the guitar?

I can only guess...hope she 's an informed person

.....didn't want to say until it has been confirmed , but apparently she was paid R40K ......this the figure doing the rounds via bush telegraph ???



The thing is , she could have easily gone to a Cash Converters and got offered a helluva lot less.....maybe thats actually what happened ?

vic wrote: The export of some of our vintage gems is nothing new. At R970,000 this an excellent buy and was it not for the plugged bigbsy holes it would have been a lot more imho. These guitars could easily fetch $250k ?

Any ideas what buyers of ZAR 1 or 2 bar guitars do with them ? Are they merely collectors, or do they get bought for tone and played ? Combo of both ?

X-rated Bob wrote: Gruhn's have a 1960 Les Paul Standard for a piddling $135000. They note that there is a small repair to a crack (not a break) on the headstock.

They also list the weight for most of their old Les Pauls. This particular one is 8 pounds, but they have a late 50's LP custom at 10lbs 7oz.

Does the weight influence the desirability and thus the price of the instrument?

The 50's LP Customs are all mahogany (I think) and could therefore weigh a bit more. It's said that the lighter weight LP's are more resonant.

6x9base13 wrote:

vic wrote: The export of some of our vintage gems is nothing new. At R970,000 this an excellent buy and was it not for the plugged bigbsy holes it would have been a lot more imho. These guitars could easily fetch $250k ?

Any ideas what buyers of ZAR 1 or 2 bar guitars do with them ? Are they merely collectors, or do they get bought for tone and played ? Combo of both ?

A bit of both imo. Remember people who fork out this kind of money have many other investments as well and most of these buy it as such. The world economy is sluggish at the moment, but will most probably pick up again (soon I hope ? ). And these guitars are not getting more in number hey...
A Stradivarius violin commands a LOT more than a meager $250k ....so it's not only '50's LP's that are collectable as investments.

joel wrote:

vic wrote:

X-rated Bob wrote: Question: What did said lady get for the guitar?

I can only guess...hope she 's an informed person

.....didn't want to say until it has been confirmed , but apparently she was paid R40K ......this the figure doing the rounds via bush telegraph ???



The thing is , she could have easily gone to a Cash Converters and got offered a helluva lot less.....maybe thats actually what happened ?

Disgusting....however if you're not informed and don't bother to do a bit of research, then you WILL get taken by the sharks...sad but true.
A good friend of mine (he deals in 18th century Cape furniture) has a very commendable and transparent practise. He informs a potential seller of the market value (auction figures) of a piece and offers 60% of that.... and guess what ...he's the most successful antique dealer in his field in SA because of this.

It is sad. It should have given her financial security for the rest of her life. Still, as Vic says, you go with the first opinion, you're going to get taken. If only she'd hit up the interwebs or got someone to do it for her.

Weight can't be too big a factor with those things, since most of them are very light compared to modern solid Les Pauls. One of the reasons that the Gibson re-issues vary in price is that they're made with different weight backs; with '59 reissues using the lightest wood. The Customs were almost universally heavier.

In general, the impression I get is that few of these instruments get played in the real sense. I mean that people won't take them out and gig. People won't play them every day. Among players, it's more likely to me that they take them out every now and again and have a little go and then gently put them back in the case and lock 'em up.

Seems to me that the only people who play them regularly are people who've had them for a long time and/or have enough money that losing them isn't a serious financial blow. I remember reading Martin Barre of Jethro Tull saying he gave up playing his '59 'burst live in the mid-'80s when he started having to buy it its own plane seat. And they were worth a lot less then. I wonder, for example, whether even Jimmy Page plays his actual guitars or one of the copies that Gibson made him.

It's very likely to me that Billy Gibbon played a Tokai at one point because his guitar was too valuable to play - that was before Gibson made it's re-issues and signature models. I think it was a similar story with Robert Frip. And I wonder how many of them had custom made replicas before Gibson was doing them.

singemonkey wrote: It is sad. It should have given her financial security for the rest of her life. Still, as Vic says, you go with the first opinion, you're going to get taken. If only she'd hit up the interwebs or got someone to do it for her.

Well whoever bought it is going to give that store in the US a cut, 20 to 25%, of the eventual price. But assuming that they knew what more or less what it was worth they could have paid 40K dollars and still expected a good profit.

In general, the impression I get is that few of these instruments get played in the real sense. I mean that people won't take them out and gig. People won't play them every day. Among players, it's more likely to me that they take them out every now and again and have a little go and then gently put them back in the case and lock 'em up.

Well some collectors/investors just cut straight to the chase and will vacuum pack the guitars and put them into very secure storage. However it may be that some owners of, for example, 1950s strats are like the people who own Stradivarii and make them available to be played and heard.

Seems to me that the only people who play them regularly are people who've had them for a long time and/or have enough money that losing them isn't a serious financial blow. I remember reading Martin Barre of Jethro Tull saying he gave up playing his '59 'burst live in the mid-'80s when he started having to buy it its own plane seat. And they were worth a lot less then. I wonder, for example, whether even Jimmy Page plays his actual guitars or one of the copies that Gibson made him.

It's very likely to me that Billy Gibbon played a Tokai at one point because his guitar was too valuable to play - that was before Gibson made it's re-issues and signature models. I think it was a similar story with Robert Frip. And I wonder how many of them had custom made replicas before Gibson was doing them.

It's the tool vs emotional value thing. Richard Thompson has a '59 strat that has basically been played into the ground. He still has it even though he never seems to play it, but I would think that the resale value has been substantially reduced. Not the least because it has a replacement bridge and is on at least it's 3rd neck (or was before he retired it in the mid 90s). As far as anybody knows he hasn't got the guitar restored or even made roadworthy again (it was in the Fender museum for a while) and he hasn't used it with any serious intent for at least 10 years. He regards them as tools. His attitude seems to be that that was a particularly good tool, but still a tool. He bought that guitar in the early 70s and it was his main guitar, often his sole guitar, in studio and on the road for 20 odd years. It might be worth quite a bit more now if he'd used it less, kept it at home a lot more.

I would not be surprised to find that a lot of these guys fly into the USA, buy half a dozen guitars, tour for 6 months, then sell the guitars on the way out again - especially with the cost of moving guitars around by air these days. Or they may have, if they tour a lot, different setups on either side of the atlantic. They may move one or two prized guitars around and rent or buy everything else.