@Vic. You better not badmouth king Steve too much hey... He strikes me as the type of bloke who trawls the web looking for references to himself. Now now he gets the boere-mafia to arrive at your door with a spanner or two and a couple of blue-bull horns to stick up your you know what... As for Fokofpolisiekar (rougkly transtlated as F@ck of Police Car, for our non-afrikaans speaking members wondering), yeah they would have been controversial no matter what, nevermind what they called themselves. I honestly believe it would have been less severe though if they had a tamer name. A lot of music lovers took a stance against them because of their name and antics and I can understand why, but I think its a pity because they really are a great band. It must have been a conscious decision to name themselves that, and they must have foreseen some neagative reaction when they did so, but I think the name cost them more fans than it gained them. Their antics arent worse than what most varsity students get up to, but because of their name and rep the spotlight is really on them now for all the wrong reasons. It should have been because the are a great band and not because the are a controversial one.
SA Players.
Agreed. I suppose they felt it's a " this is who we are, take it or leave it" name. Even if they were considered the greatest band on earth, when I first heard of them, their name just put me off and I moved on.X-rated Bob wrote: You might say that it's old fuddie duddies getting worked up over something that's just a word anyway, but you must know that it's going to be coming.
you guys should check out "concussion Girl" local band very good, even have a song on a movie. write and sell there own stuff. met the guitarist Alex yesterday what a cool dude. 8)
mmm yeah well re the fokofpolisiekar debate...... hey the music industry is tough even in south africa.......and many bands on the local circuit sound so similar and many are all quite good.......... that to be noticed being unique or sticking out ,....be it with a name or behaviour or both is nothing but good bussiness.... and yeah everyone and i mean everyone noticed them...... then i bet many who never woulda gone to a show said hey lets just go check out that band with the name causing all the fuss..... and then it's up to the band if they good they will get fans........ and yeah they a great band too.... and prob many other bands are as good musically but lacked the marketing move that launched fokofpolisiekar......
so yeah they were brave enough to take that risk and it paid off........
so yeah they were brave enough to take that risk and it paid off........
Quick disclosure: I sometimes hire the folks that did the fokof doccie to do tv ads plus the designer that's interviewed in the doccie that help launch the fokof brand works for my company. That said... I'm not a huge fan of their music but what's wrong with branding yourself well? It's all part of showmanship (see White Stripes etc etc etc etc) and part of the entertainment, as well as being creative. One of the greatest albums of all time initially only caused a stir because the fly zipper on the sleeve revealed a now famous tongue logo. Brilliant move and the music rocked more than ever. Bands that tend to rely ONLY on gimmick sink quickly or never rise above gawk value (Lordi anybody?).
And and and... some folks need some help branding themselves better...
And and and... some folks need some help branding themselves better...
Personally I thought that Sticky Fingers was not a great Stones album, although it DID have a great Stones single.Jack Flash Jr wrote: Quick disclosure: I sometimes hire the folks that did the fokof doccie to do tv ads plus the designer that's interviewed in the doccie that help launch the fokof brand works for my company. That said... I'm not a huge fan of their music but what's wrong with branding yourself well? It's all part of showmanship (see White Stripes etc etc etc etc) and part of the entertainment, as well as being creative. One of the greatest albums of all time initially only caused a stir because the fly zipper on the sleeve revealed a now famous tongue logo. Brilliant move and the music rocked more than ever. Bands that tend to rely ONLY on gimmick sink quickly or never rise above gawk value
By then the Stones were big enough and infamous enough that it didn't hurt them much.
I will say no more than this good sir Bob:
Side one
1. "Brown Sugar" – 3:50
2. "Sway" – 3:52
3. "Wild Horses" – 5:44
4. "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" – 7:15
5. "You Gotta Move" (Fred McDowell, Rev. Gary Davis) – 2:34
Side two
6. "Bitch" – 3:37
7. "I Got the Blues" – 3:54
8. "Sister Morphine" (Jagger, Richards, Marianne Faithfull) – 5:34
9. "Dead Flowers" – 4:05
10. "Moonlight Mile" – 5:56
Side one
1. "Brown Sugar" – 3:50
2. "Sway" – 3:52
3. "Wild Horses" – 5:44
4. "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" – 7:15
5. "You Gotta Move" (Fred McDowell, Rev. Gary Davis) – 2:34
Side two
6. "Bitch" – 3:37
7. "I Got the Blues" – 3:54
8. "Sister Morphine" (Jagger, Richards, Marianne Faithfull) – 5:34
9. "Dead Flowers" – 4:05
10. "Moonlight Mile" – 5:56
Yes. I'm familiar with the track listing. Sticky Fingers includes a great single (Brown Sugar), but otherwise.... well it's not exactly Let It Bleed or Beggar's Banquet.Jack Flash Jr wrote: I will say no more than this good sir Bob:
Side one
1. "Brown Sugar" – 3:50
2. "Sway" – 3:52
3. "Wild Horses" – 5:44
4. "Can't You Hear Me Knocking" – 7:15
5. "You Gotta Move" (Fred McDowell, Rev. Gary Davis) – 2:34
Side two
6. "Bitch" – 3:37
7. "I Got the Blues" – 3:54
8. "Sister Morphine" (Jagger, Richards, Marianne Faithfull) – 5:34
9. "Dead Flowers" – 4:05
10. "Moonlight Mile" – 5:56
I know it sold a lot, but then so did "Best of Westlife".
It's also not exactly Black and Blue, so let's not be too harsh on it ?X-rated Bob wrote:
Yes. I'm familiar with the track listing. Sticky Fingers includes a great single (Brown Sugar), but otherwise.... well it's not exactly Let It Bleed or Beggar's Banquet.
Just dragged myself off the floor after the Westlife low blow ? we'll have to agree to disagree... I think Ry Cooder on Sister Morphine and Mick Taylor's playing on Can you hear me knocking alone elevate it above most albums but there you go...
10 days later
I think we have more than enough talented (and potentially superb) players in South Africa, but a lack of promoters/promotions has led to a lot of these potentially great bands/players never getting off the ground and subsequently they give it up in lieu of making a living some other way. Guys like Trevor Rabin and Dave Mathews only reached "stardom" once they left SA for USA. Even Dan Patlansky's "superb" status only really started after his USA tour. Maybe this mindset of the general SA population that anything produced in SA is inferior compared to 1st world countries is part of the problem? I guess if we keep comparing ourselves to the "superstars", we will never make it, but keep in mind that at some stage they were also "wannabe's"
Just my humble opinion....
Just my humble opinion....
I used to love watching James Reynard of Nine (dating myself here). I'm not a big metal guy, but he was just amazing and so unusual. He played a Steinberg for a start - little stick of a guitar - and his fingers would just glide around that thing. Some of the riffs he came up with were just titanic and he had these weird little whale sound things with a volume pedal. Fantastically creative. I know he had some problems for a while and I don't know if he still plays guitar. He was an incredible drummer too.
I think the "controversy" with fokofpolisiekar was as important as the music. They took a sledgehammer to the foundations of our culture and, even if they didn't do much damage in the long term, they should be praised for trying. Freedom of speech includes the right to say stuff that offends people - and their very name stands for that. It's hard to imagine them in Top Billing photo shoots - like a certain frontman of a nineties Stellenbosch rock band ?
A big problem here is that there's not enough competition in a lot of styles of music. There may be a lot of rockers in SA, but there are probably more in Chicago on its own. That means that people with no talent give up early, and those with talent work harder to be better than the next person. A problem I have with so many SA bands is that they can't write songs. I mean not at all. They keep going with a small following but don't have a single decent song, of maybe one or two in an otherwise tedious set. And without good songs, they're not exciting to watch - no matter how good the musicianship. The only "rocker" I can think of who has consistently produced one amazing song after another is Johnny Clegg - and his success is a testimony to that. The "White Zulu" thing would only have taken him so far otherwise.
I think song writing is way undervalued among SA rockers. And I think that comes from lack of competition. Nineties alternative rock didn't help much either ?
I think the "controversy" with fokofpolisiekar was as important as the music. They took a sledgehammer to the foundations of our culture and, even if they didn't do much damage in the long term, they should be praised for trying. Freedom of speech includes the right to say stuff that offends people - and their very name stands for that. It's hard to imagine them in Top Billing photo shoots - like a certain frontman of a nineties Stellenbosch rock band ?
A big problem here is that there's not enough competition in a lot of styles of music. There may be a lot of rockers in SA, but there are probably more in Chicago on its own. That means that people with no talent give up early, and those with talent work harder to be better than the next person. A problem I have with so many SA bands is that they can't write songs. I mean not at all. They keep going with a small following but don't have a single decent song, of maybe one or two in an otherwise tedious set. And without good songs, they're not exciting to watch - no matter how good the musicianship. The only "rocker" I can think of who has consistently produced one amazing song after another is Johnny Clegg - and his success is a testimony to that. The "White Zulu" thing would only have taken him so far otherwise.
I think song writing is way undervalued among SA rockers. And I think that comes from lack of competition. Nineties alternative rock didn't help much either ?
James Phillips? Roger Lucey? Jennifer Ferguson? Robbi Robb? Mac McKenzie? The various songwriters within Bright Blue came up with some very strong songs.singemonkey wrote: A problem I have with so many SA bands is that they can't write songs. I mean not at all. They keep going with a small following but don't have a single decent song, of maybe one or two in an otherwise tedious set. And without good songs, they're not exciting to watch - no matter how good the musicianship. The only "rocker" I can think of who has consistently produced one amazing song after another is Johnny Clegg
What I do think happened in the mid 90s was that suddenly a major source of motivation/inspiration for SA musicians of a certain age or era was removed. Some of them ended up with not a lot more to say.
James ROCKED...Nine was one of my favourites of that period. Brilliant. Ran into James the other day, he's at Paul Bothner in Claremont. Mike from Blunt was not too bad either - disappeared into the ether though.singemonkey wrote: I used to love watching James Reynard of Nine (dating myself here). I'm not a big metal guy, but he was just amazing and so unusual. He played a Steinberg for a start - little stick of a guitar - and his fingers would just glide around that thing. Some of the riffs he came up with were just titanic and he had these weird little whale sound things with a volume pedal. Fantastically creative. I know he had some problems for a while and I don't know if he still plays guitar. He was an incredible drummer too.
I think the "controversy" with fokofpolisiekar was as important as the music. They took a sledgehammer to the foundations of our culture and, even if they didn't do much damage in the long term, they should be praised for trying. Freedom of speech includes the right to say stuff that offends people - and their very name stands for that. It's hard to imagine them in Top Billing photo shoots - like a certain frontman of a nineties Stellenbosch rock band ?
A big problem here is that there's not enough competition in a lot of styles of music. There may be a lot of rockers in SA, but there are probably more in Chicago on its own. That means that people with no talent give up early, and those with talent work harder to be better than the next person. A problem I have with so many SA bands is that they can't write songs. I mean not at all. They keep going with a small following but don't have a single decent song, of maybe one or two in an otherwise tedious set. And without good songs, they're not exciting to watch - no matter how good the musicianship. The only "rocker" I can think of who has consistently produced one amazing song after another is Johnny Clegg - and his success is a testimony to that. The "White Zulu" thing would only have taken him so far otherwise.
I think song writing is way undervalued among SA rockers. And I think that comes from lack of competition. Nineties alternative rock didn't help much either ?
Great to hear he's doing well and presumably still playing guitar and drums - even if he's not playing in bands. He really is an exceptional rock guitar player, both technically and creatively.
He, heh - James and that damn Steinberger gave me many hours of problems - we could never stop the damn thing from breaking high E strings. James is a great player (can play drums too - I first met him when he was drumming for a college band I was recording). Saw him a few months back while he was working at Bothner's Plumstead, and he seemed a bit delicate.
Middle-Earth?Alan Ratcliffe wrote: James is a great player (can play drums too - I first met him when he was drumming for a college band I was recording).
Can't remember (we're talking maybe 20 years ago) - very spacey psychodelic stuff.
Not what I'm thinking of. Middle-Earth were kind of Zeppelin clones. James was a very impressive drummer in that.