Any mensans here?

IceCreamMan · 2010-04-15T15:43:16+00:00

REad an article in which it was stated that ppl who play musical instruments generally have higher IQ's than none players. Now we all know guitarists are the pick of the musical bunch so any mensans here?

singemonkey

Ray wrote Well, I dont know how sharp I am, the people that live around me reckon not so very.

You're not fooling anyone, you know ?

Conrad

Ray wrote
IceCreamMan wrote better to be poor an bright than rich and dim
Hey??!! Have you been hungry? Well, I dont know how sharp I am, the people that live around me reckon not so very. But I've been hungry so I dont go for that.

You are a Ray so you are bright. Sharpness is for pencils.

IceCreamMan

Ray wrote
IceCreamMan wrote better to be poor an bright than rich and dim
Hey??!! Have you been hungry? Well, I dont know how sharp I am, the people that live around me reckon not so very. But I've been hungry so I dont go for that.

Point i am making is that bright people very rarely go hungry

Squonk

Intelligence does not put food on the table....

DonovanB

IceCreamMan wrote Point i am making is that bright people very rarely go hungry

Thats a funny point. I often wonder what kind of person a beggar on the street is. What was the turning point that made him/her turn to a street corner for income?

I know people who were unemployed and made a plan, started some sort of business and things happened. I know others who got by on their ingenuity, I even know a woman who prostituted herself to support her kids. ( i don't care what anyone says, she worked... even if it is wrong/immoral/illegal)
What makes a person decide that they will stand on the corner with a sign saying no job etc? Is there something missing or am I missing something?

Squonk

Squonk wrote Intelligence does not put food on the table....

In fact Grocery Shopping at Woolworths puts food on the Table ?

Thinking a bit further on this subject, I dont think Intelligence and common sense are linked together either!

My wife has a lot more common sense than I do..., Ok alright I do admit she is more intelligent than me ?

Just a mention on the School for Gifted Kids - A huge bunch of them do have huge behaviour problems, personal hygiene problems, no common sense etc.
The parents seem to blame it on the state of their IQ's. I tend to blame it on the age in which we are living.
American Tv shows that depict Parents as pushovers, Heroes that are anything but good examples etc. I could go on...

Another problem is that these parents tend to not let their gifted children grow up as children, Yes they are extremely bright but they still need to climb trees, play with a ball, interact with children their own age etc. This kind of stimulation is needed to develop the brain.

Some bright kids will excel in the big world but a lot of them will also fail miserably.

Conrad

Jaco Pastorius was homeless for a long time. Even till he died.

Keira-WitherKay

Conrad wrote Jaco Pastorius was homeless for a long time. Even till he died.

yeah although that had to do with his addictions....... not his intelligence.........

but now that you mention him wow what a fab bassist ....... apparantly when he worked with the orchestra (which he did a lot in his solo days after weather report) he was able to play and memorised everyones part on the entire score so when he performed he knew exactly what every instrument was playing .... ? most of us find it hard to memorise only their own parts perfectly

Squonk

Carrying on with Jaco, What a brilliant bassist.

Would his intelligence have any sway over his addictions, or would you call this common sense.

If brightness = food on the table, then surely brightness would be able to deal with the addiction.

Some of the bright people I know don't always make the best choices in life.

There must be more to intelligence than being able to learn 14 oriental languages at the same time , or being able to design intergallactic communication systems.

Vincent van Gogh, Mozart, etc all extremely gifted but shocking lifestyles, which part of their intellect let them down.

Just a thought ?

[deleted]

Another little observation of mine. An area that music is also good at developing is not only the mathematical area of the brain, but also good social skills. How many times have people on the forum said "if you want to be in a band, it's not always how good you play, but what kind of a person you are."

Those skills might get you further in life than staight up intelegence actually.

I once had a very clever math teacher, but she could not teach to save her live, in fact she un-tuaght us. So there the inability to relate to others turned intelegence into a deconstructive force.

Conrad

Viccy wrote Another little observation of mine. An area that music is also good at developing is not only the mathematical area of the brain, but also good social skills. How many times have people on the forum said "if you want to be in a band, it's not always how good you play, but what kind of a person you are."

Those skills might get you further in life than staight up intelegence actually.

I once had a very clever math teacher, but she could not teach to save her live, in fact she un-tuaght us. So there the inability to relate to others turned intelegence into a deconstructive force.

Un taught... my sister also told me of this old lady in swimming class that would do the regula moves but slowly move backwards. I can't remember when last I laughed that much. I am not kidding. My sister is level headed, not on any medication....

Renesongs

Jaco Pastorius was homeless for a long time. Even till he died.

Now we opening up a new can of worms. Jaco by all accounts was highly intelligent however he was diagnosed and treated for a bipolar disorder. He complained that the the medication he was taking made his fingers numb (not a good thing for a bassist). He elected to stop medication his bipolar disorder worsened he became alcoholic depressed and homeless and was eventually beaten to death for breaking into a bar. I was prescribed the very same medication a few years before Jaco's tragedy and I complained that it made my fingers numb. The doctor intimated I was imagining it since it was not a documented side effect. Happily I changed doctors (several times) and am now correctly diagnosed and medicated so I will not be breaking into any bars in the foreseeable future.

Conrad

Renesongs wrote
Jaco Pastorius was homeless for a long time. Even till he died.
Now we opening up a new can of worms. Jaco by all accounts was highly intelligent however he was diagnosed and treated for a bipolar disorder. He complained that the the medication he was taking made his fingers numb (not a good thing for a bassist). He elected to stop medication his bipolar disorder worsened he became alcoholic depressed and homeless and was eventually beaten to death for breaking into a bar. I was prescribed the very same medication a few years before Jaco's tragedy and I complained that it made my fingers numb. The doctor intimated I was imagining it since it was not a documented side effect. Happily I changed doctors (several times) and am now correctly diagnosed and medicated so I will not be breaking into any bars in the foreseeable future.

OK good but I would still say you should steer clear of violent imbeciles like the one that killed Jaco.

lindsmuse

I just clicked what Donovan's profile pic is! I thought it was a pic of him under a dark grey blanket. Think I just flunked the visual pun section of the IQ test!

I wonder what kind of cruel people dream up IQ tests. How sadistic.

I remember almost not being able to write my learners licence way back because it was so funny.

What do you do when you get to a stop sign?

1) Stop. Look left, right, left again and if it is safe proceed with caution.

2) Stop. Blow your hooter. Look right and go.

3) Go really fast and hope you don't hit anyone.

Something similar - I distinctly remember about blowing your hooter. And then you get people that fail and continuously fail this test!

What worries me is some people hit a blank when they have to write tests ... a bit unfair really.

Squonk

Been thinking about this whole Bright vs Success thing!

I think two more factors to put into the equation

Personality - Assertive, driven people will always get further. People like me who are very laid back ? always have remarks like 'Should have done better" on their reports etc, always have to go against their makeup to do well. I think your personality will determine what choices you make and how you implement them.

Opportunity - If there is no opportunity, not much is going to happen. One example - Keith Green was a very talented Child Musician on the brink of stardom, he was gifted way beyond his years, At exactly the same time "The Osmonds" were breaking ground and a certain Donny Osmond all of a sudden hit the big time, The public only need one child star (So the promoters said, and the big plans were dropped)
Donny made it but Keith didn't, he eventually had success in the Christian Music Scene, But if you Listen to his work, you will easily spot that he was monumentally more gifted than Donny Osmond.

If you have the Intelligence plus the Personality and the opportunity, you will be extremely successfull, but if you have intelligence and the other two dont line up, is it possible that succes wont be guarenteed.

Just a theory, I dont even know if I believe it but there you go.... ?

Tamago

Alan Ratcliffe wrote High IQ is one thing, Mensa is another. I've always had the feeling that Mensa is more of a "club" where some can make themselves feel superior just by being members, rather than anything meaningful. IQ scores themselves prove nothing more than an ability to score highly on a standardised IQ test.

Musos are a mixed group of people, just like any other, some are above average IQ, some are below. Do a survey of people studying music and you will likely come out with an above-average mean, but then that's only one small slice of the gamut of musicians.

It often seems to me that many of the real standout innovators in music are sadly lacking in even the most basic common sense when it comes to other aspects of their lives (and may even be outright idiots in some respects). Kind of mild idiot savants. ?

I fully agree- my take on MENSA is that they are indeed a club for them "begaafde" peoples to feel superior. They have never been there for me and neither have they been here for me now that I am having to deal with having a gifted child. They tried to yank me out of school in Std 1 and made me miss 3 days of school with all kinds of testing in Pretoria, in the end when my parents told them they could not afford to send me to a special school they kind of dropped them. Well that's what I can remember anyhow of the incident, some 20 odd years ago.

I have the displeasure of working with some MENSANS, the a-word comes to mind frequently.... the one in particular was my boss, and it was hell working under that person, especially when it came to being off sick.

DonovanB

lindsmuse wrote I just clicked what Donovan's profile pic is! I thought it was a pic of him under a dark grey blanket. Think I just flunked the visual pun section of the IQ test!

No Matter how hard I look, squint, walk backwards I still can't see that... :?

Wizard

Donovan Banks wrote
lindsmuse wrote I just clicked what Donovan's profile pic is! I thought it was a pic of him under a dark grey blanket. Think I just flunked the visual pun section of the IQ test!
No Matter how hard I look, squint, walk backwards I still can't see that... :?

I haven't clicked yet ... am still flunking the visual IQ test ... and am still seeing Donovan under the grey blanket ...

Bob-Dubery

Squonk wrote Carrying on with Jaco, What a brilliant bassist.

Would his intelligence have any sway over his addictions, or would you call this common sense.

If brightness = food on the table, then surely brightness would be able to deal with the addiction.

Some of the bright people I know don't always make the best choices in life.

There must be more to intelligence than being able to learn 14 oriental languages at the same time , or being able to design intergallactic communication systems.

Vincent van Gogh, Mozart, etc all extremely gifted but shocking lifestyles, which part of their intellect let them down.

I'm resisting the notion that it HAS to be that way. I think there's a wierd sort of romantic notion about how geniuses have to be tormented and dissolute. But I don't think it's necessarily so, and I'm uncomfortable with the notion that great creativity requires torment.

A lot of people who aren't creative or aren't famous have the same kind of problems that we're talking about here. I am watching various friends of mine drink away their self-respect. Much to my shame I haven't intervened in the way that a caring friend should. I have seen people who are not famous thus off the radar end up in mental institutions and in all kinds of trouble because they had the same kind of problems that Jaco Pastorius had. I don't want to say that nobody cares, because of course there are people who care, but these people don't end up on TV news, or in Down Beat magazine so they and their troubles go unnoticed by the world at large.

Frank Zappa was a very creative guy. He doesn't seem to have had troubles with addiction or anti-social behaviour. Neither has Steve Vai. Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull has kept a notably straight head (despite the feigned eccentricity and the on-stage tramp persona).

No. It don't have to be that way. Guys like Jaco Pastorius represent the union of two sets - geniuses and people with manic depression.

chris77

Great thread. I used to think intellect was somehow related to liberalism and independent thought. But it turned out that talking quasi philosophy and religion while consuming dubious amounts of cheap red wine isn't such a great barometer after all.? Some of the most brilliant people I have met since then can probably be best described as boring conservatives. So yeah, human nature dictates that nothing is ever clear cut when it comes to our species. As mentioned before, there are just too many variables that determine how a person turns out. Never judge what you dont comprehend, and who can truly comprehend another person completely?

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