Any mensans here?

IceCreamMan · 2010-04-15T15:43:16+00:00

REad an article in which it was stated that ppl who play musical instruments generally have higher IQ's than none players. Now we all know guitarists are the pick of the musical bunch so any mensans here?

lindsmuse

I'm still annoyed with Mensa.
I think I'd probably be a lot happier with them if they spent their meetings solving real problems like housing problems, curing cancer or solving poverty ... rather than coming up with yet another way to do a Rubik's Cube a bit quicker or their normal obsession with prime numbers ...

I agree with this wholeheartedly - knowing at which exact precise moment the sun is going to explode is not of much use right here and now ...

DonovanB

Renesongs wrote @ Don The real question is who actually finished Reading a Zen and the Art and didn't give up half way.

LMAO Spot on. I've been reading it for years... I knocked off 1984 in 2 days but this kills me.

Wizard wrote His driving skills were clearly a consequence of exceptional brain power of the kind that applied to driving.
So ... he had a superior brain ... at least in respect of this one application.

I believe in that fully. My son* (4) got a bad report from his school cos he couldn't catch a ball. When I tried with him, I noticed he wasn't watching the ball at all. He was watching the person he was playing with. So his interest is more on interaction than catching a ball. He CAN do it, but wanted to interact with the person more than a ball.

I reckon we are all like that. We have our areas of interest that we can excel in. It may not be conventional but we can do it. The world needs great truck drivers, street sweepers and waiters. I just find it a pity that someone can be so good at something considered menial and not be acknowledged for their greatness.

*Disclaimer: I am a bastard (agent?) father. I study my son like he is a living experiment so I can understand people better. I am tired of living by standards that are handed down by an archaic society stating that we need to be this tall, or this clever, or do this and that to be considered great.

Viccy wrote To me a good musician is good at empathising, to tap in to what we all feel, and respond to it with finesse. Imagine being able to show empathy to the cumulative effect of people's emotions rippeling through a crowd. That's a good show.

L. Ron Hubbard, as much as he gets dissed (even by me), stated, very correctly, "Art is effective communication." Stew on that for a bit...

Conrad

OK I didn't expect a reply so I have nothing to offer except that Einstein had lovely hair and was a good violinist. Georg Cantor (set theory god) was a great violinist too. Ozzy Osbourne.......not in intellectual giant. Brian May is quite a good engineer but his hair sucks. Bob Dubery is a great story teller and guitarist and smart. Lethe is in applied mathematics.... Alan is some polymath... I have yet to meet a dof person on this forum which is more than Ican say about some American forum I am on...

Just some relevant but probably useless data...

[deleted]

L. Ron Hubbard, as much as he gets dissed (even by me), stated, very correctly, "Art is effective communication." Stew on that for a bit...

Not quite my point. Where Mr. Hubbard is very good at manipulating human emotions, as people can do through communication and art, empathy is identifying and giving audience to the emotion already present in someone (well that's how I see it). Harder than it sounds, as we are all prefer our own emotional preconceptions over just listening and accepting.

PeteM

Viccy wrote empathy is identifying and giving audience to the emotion already present in someone (well that's how I see it). Harder than it sounds, as we are all prefer our own emotional preconceptions over just listening and accepting.

The basics of marketing - give the people what they want and not what you think they want.

Renesongs

The basics of marketing - give the people what they want and not what you think they want.

Better marketing is creating a demand for what you've got. Nobody wanted Coke-Cola when it was invented.

Wizard

Renesongs wrote Better marketing is creating a demand for what you've got. Nobody wanted Coke-Cola when it was invented.

But ... it was good for hangovers ... so always had a guaranteed market ... ?

[deleted]

The basics of marketing - give the people what they want and not what you think they want.

Better marketing is creating a demand for what you've got. Nobody wanted Coke-Cola when it was invented

Hm, my point is that with empathy you are not seeking to fulfill someone's needs or give them what they think they might want, merely make them aware that you accept them. Quite the opposite of marketing actually. Imagine if all advertising said "Don't bother changing a thing about yourself, you're not perfect, but you're you".

Bob-Dubery

Donovan Banks wrote
I reckon we are all like that. We have our areas of interest that we can excel in. It may not be conventional but we can do it. The world needs great truck drivers, street sweepers and waiters. I just find it a pity that someone can be so good at something considered menial and not be acknowledged for their greatness.

There's a difference, and it may be masked by misuse of words like "genius". There are people who, in some areas, operate at a far higher level than most of us could achieve. I could learn to drive a truck or sweep the street, I can't learn to be Jimi Hendrix or Albert Einstein, even if I work really hard at it.

The Concise Oxford Dictionary tells us that a genius is a person who has

“instinctive, and extraordinary imaginative, creative or inventive capacity”.

You can compare me to a truck driver or a street sweeper. The CEO of the company that I work for comes from a humble background and didn't have an easy path to the world of academia and then his profession. He had to work as a labourer on building sites in order that the next term's fees could be paid. He said that this taught him that all work confers dignity and is worthy of respect. I'm a computer programmer. I think you do get geniuses in that field, but I ain't one of them. So compare me to a street sweeper - with a couple of different twists in fortune he could be doing my job and I could be doing his. I could learn his, he could probably learn to do mine, though there would be some underlying subjects he'd need to get up to speed on first - but it ain't impossible.

Neither of us could learn to be Einstein, or Newton, or Shakespeare or Hendrix or Charlie Parker or Beethoven. Those guys were geniuses. That's different from being very good at what you do.

IceCreamMan

X-rated Bob wrote You can compare me to a truck driver or a street sweeper. The CEO of the company that I work for comes from a humble background and didn't have an easy path to the world of academia and then his profession. He had to work as a labourer on building sites in order that the next term's fees could be paid. He said that this taught him that all work confers dignity and is worthy of respect. I'm a computer programmer. I think you do get geniuses in that field, but I ain't one of them. So compare me to a street sweeper - with a couple of different twists in fortune he could be doing my job and I could be doing his. I could learn his, he could probably learn to do mine, though there would be some underlying subjects he'd need to get up to speed on first - but it ain't impossible.

Neither of us could learn to be Einstein, or Newton, or Shakespeare or Hendrix or Charlie Parker or Beethoven. Those guys were geniuses. That's different from being very good at what you do.

While you are being humble you are wrong , unless the street sweeper is a unique individual chances arehe will not be able to be even a mediocre somputer programmer. This takes a level of intelligence to be good at. (even just a lil bit good). Certain professions are generally reserved for brighter than the norm individuals ,this incl lawyers , or engineers or doctors or accountants , programmers etc .....

But you could be an excellent street sweeper in a short period of time and if you could maintain the motivation you could excel in the field.

a bright indivudal irrespective of background who has motivation will generally succeed.

better to be poor an bright than rich and dim

Squonk

I think Bob is right if you are weighing up Genius as opposed to bright.

Some extra reading would be the Multiple Intelligences

www.infed.org/thinkers/gardner.htm

Linguistic intelligence involves sensitivity to spoken and written language, the ability to learn languages, and the capacity to use language to accomplish certain goals. This intelligence includes the ability to effectively use language to express oneself rhetorically or poetically; and language as a means to remember information. Writers, poets, lawyers and speakers are among those that Howard Gardner sees as having high linguistic intelligence.

Logical-mathematical intelligence consists of the capacity to analyze problems logically, carry out mathematical operations, and investigate issues scientifically. In Howard Gardner's words, it entails the ability to detect patterns, reason deductively and think logically. This intelligence is most often associated with scientific and mathematical thinking.

Musical intelligence involves skill in the performance, composition, and appreciation of musical patterns. It encompasses the capacity to recognize and compose musical pitches, tones, and rhythms. According to Howard Gardner musical intelligence runs in an almost structural parallel to linguistic intelligence.

Bodily-kinesthetic intelligence entails the potential of using one's whole body or parts of the body to solve problems. It is the ability to use mental abilities to coordinate bodily movements. Howard Gardner sees mental and physical activity as related.

Spatial intelligence involves the potential to recognize and use the patterns of wide space and more confined areas.

Interpersonal intelligence is concerned with the capacity to understand the intentions, motivations and desires of other people. It allows people to work effectively with others. Educators, salespeople, religious and political leaders and counsellors all need a well-developed interpersonal intelligence.

Intrapersonal intelligence entails the capacity to understand oneself, to appreciate one's feelings, fears and motivations. In Howard Gardner's view it involves having an effective working model of ourselves, and to be able to use such information to regulate our lives.

You will see we are obviously motivated by different intelligences, some by more than one, others obviously gifted in those area's.

My wife works at a School for gifted children. It could be said for children with higher IQ (Whatever that means), the school has a system designed to work out which Intelligence the children are motivated by and then each child is stimulated according to their intelligence

Only 15 in a class, but a huge job because of all the interaction.

Ther are a lot of bright kids, but only a few that are off the scales when it comes to Intelligence.

lindsmuse

I'm not sure what the high eq thing is but I do believe that on an essential level all people are equal. Savants are on the extreme end of this, Einstein almost up there (Anyone know his life story? ). Then I do think there are some exceptions to the rules, but they're few and far between, my favorite example of which is Da Vinci - that man had it all, maths, arts, music, sciences, engineer, mortition, not to mention he was good looking and gifted with the ladies.

Gifted with the men ..... That's what I've been told and seems to be an historical fact ... ? Wish somebody would make a movie of his life story. He was fascinating.

Ray

Rocky Marciano

Bob-Dubery

lindsmuse wrote
I'm not sure what the high eq thing is but I do believe that on an essential level all people are equal. Savants are on the extreme end of this, Einstein almost up there (Anyone know his life story? ). Then I do think there are some exceptions to the rules, but they're few and far between, my favorite example of which is Da Vinci - that man had it all, maths, arts, music, sciences, engineer, mortition, not to mention he was good looking and gifted with the ladies.
Gifted with the men ..... That's what I've been told and seems to be an historical fact ... ? Wish somebody would make a movie of his life story. He was fascinating.

I often get disappointed by life stories - even of musicians that I admire hugely. They're people with foibles and shortcomings and I don't see there's a lot to be learned from their lives, or even much that's fascinating (as opposed to shocking or titillating). At best they seem to be so ordinary it's actually boring (eg Richard Thompson).

This leads me to consider that we should consider the art and not the artist. Nick Drake biographies portray a guy who smoked way too much dope and generally needed a kick up the arse. But the music..... well THAT is special and beautiful and worth marveling at. Leonardo da Vinci left behind a pencil self portrait that is just a marvel of artistic elegance - nothing superflous, nothing missing, his fabulous gift for representing light and shade is manifest but not screaming at you.

You can't explain true genius. See the definition that I posted - it's instinctive, it's intrinsic, it's built in and you either one of the few that have it or you are one of the many that don't. They probably don't know how they do it - or do the magical bit that separates the genius from the merely excellent. There's no explaining genius and I don't think it can be understood. All we can do is marvel.

lindsmuse

I agree about the genius thing. I think some would call it the divine spark - or a splinter of it happened to wedge itself in some unsuspecting person's mind. Or else like Leonard of Quirm in Terry Pratchett's books, he is just creating what was already there - just kind of tying it up, because for some reason, thats his job. Or some people are like Merlin's - living backwards - like Pratchett himself as far as I'm concerned.

The thing that Squonk has posted about the different categories of intelligence - The common denominator is intelligence. Something in you decides whether you are interested in any of those categories. I think with a little help, the correct teacher, mentor, life's twists etc, with the same amount of intelligence you could do any of the above. It's what you pick. Or some may say what is picked for you ..

The biggest problem is that people are not being taught how to use their intelligence. It's useless being a genius if you can't do anything with it. Our education systems should be geared to solving this ...(amongst other things of course)

[deleted]

I agree about the genius thing. I think some would call it the divine spark - or a splinter of it happened to wedge itself in some unsuspecting person's mind. Or else like Leonard of Quirm in Terry Pratchett's books, he is just creating what was already there - just kind of tying it up, because for some reason, thats his job. Or some people are like Merlin's - living backwards - like Pratchett himself as far as I'm concerned.

Beautifully summed up.

The biggest problem is that people are not being taught how to use their intelligence

I often wonder about the education system, it's like a chicken and egg situation. For example what's the point of teaching a child about history when they have no life experience to refer it to. But where will they get life experience if they don't learn about what people do in history (although I think history classes in school are quite a joke actually, travelling half way accros the world for Spice, really?). History is a pretty gruesome thing to be teaching children any way.

Breeze

10 points IceCreamMyMan, you managed to get almost everyone going on this one. Can't we all just be bloody clever, S-M-R-T, intelligiente, shiny-bright bro's (gals), and if we're not, be happy with it. If you've got a rythm in your soul and a song in your heart, then you're probably one 'o the lucky ones. ?

Wizard

The real truth is that is doesn't matter how intelligent you are ... it only matters if you can make music ...

Bob-Dubery

IceCreamMan wrote
better to be poor an bright than rich and dim

Not so.

There is a well defined and understood hierarchy of needs. Things like food on the table and a roof over one's heads are pretty fundamental. Most folks need to get those basic needs sorted first before they can move on to the higher things like creativity and searching for the meaning of it all.

Most of us would say that we'd rather be the starving genius than well-off but mediocre, but most of us wouldn't really.

Ray

IceCreamMan wrote better to be poor an bright than rich and dim

Hey??!! Have you been hungry? Well, I dont know how sharp I am, the people that live around me reckon not so very. But I've been hungry so I dont go for that.

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