Advice needed on small PA system

FatBoy

I am looking for a small PA system.

Mostly to be used to carry vocals at band practise, maybe for very small gigs.

How does this look http://www.laney.co.uk/show_prod.php?prod=CD630M

Can a get a good deal on it on Gumtree (don't steal it from under me you bastids!)

MoJo-JoJoe

This is just one opinion, but it's mine and since you asked, here goes ...

Money spent on small PA's is a waste, so rather start building your bigger rig right away. Get one of these initially (check the back panel, it has multiple inputs that you can mix, so one will act like a mini PA on its own)
http://www.wharfedalepro.com/Home/Products/POWEREDLOUDSPEAKERS/TITANACTIVE/TITAN12ACTIVE/tabid/181/Default.aspx

Then when your requirements grow, get another active speaker ... and a Mixer as your input requirements grow.

Lastly, get these
http://www.wharfedalepro.com/Home/Products/POWEREDLOUDSPEAKERS/TITANACTIVE/TITANSUBA15/tabid/182/Default.aspx
and you'll have a nice rig that's able to play medium size club gigs.

- MJJJ

FatBoy

Thanks for the input dude!

I am clueless with these things, so a question.

The Laney system in question says its 300watt

The wharfedale system you recommend says this

CONTINOUS RMS LF 250W, HF 50W
PEAK (WATS) LF 500W, HF 100W

Now is it 250W or 500W, as in when the Laney says 300W is it CONTINOUS or PEAK?

I'm not sure if I'll ever need a mid size rig, most places supply their own PA isn't it?

I'm also thinking that a smaller system could be lekker to have at home... I do see your point though.

AlanRatcliffe

Money spent on small PA's is a waste, so rather start building your bigger rig right away.

+1. Absolutely.

PA is an expensive prospect and most people spend a lot of money on stuff they outgrow and subsequently sell at a loss. So careful planning like MJJJ outlines saves a lot of money in the long run. Also, those speakers can be used as monitors when your rig grows even bigger.

All depends on price for a first small rig though, so if the Laney includes speakers and is dirt cheap, it may still be an option.

MoJo-JoJoe

If you want to go yet smaller to begin with, you can get Titan 8 Actives instead of the Titan 12 Actives, and later if/when you get subs, you can get the Titan 12 Subs instead of the Titan 15 Subs.

No most places do not supply their own PA, it's usually up to the band.

You didn't mention speakers and speaker quality and efficiency also needs to be taken into account, but with the info you've supplied this is the best answer I can give in a short reply.

As for the ratings, you should compare RMS with RMS in this case, so the Laney is 300w RMS and the Wharfedale is 250w LF (low frequency ... ie the bass speaker in the cabinet) and 50w HF (high frequency ... ie the horn/tweeter in the cabinet) ... meaning the Wharfedale also is 300w RMS, but it contains a seperate amp for each speaker all contained in the one speaker cabinet. Pop in at Vissie (Musiekwereld) and ask Cobus to show you a pair of the Wharfedales.

Now it's down to opinions again, and as far as I'm concerned, the Laney isn't even worthy of being in the same sentence as the Wharfedale. The Wharfedale Titans are THAT much better.

AlanRatcliffe

[EDIT: MJJJ beat me to it, but we're like minded]

Fritz Brand wrote: Now is it 250W or 500W, as in when the Laney says 300W is it CONTINOUS or PEAK?

It's RMS, which equates to about half of peak and is a much more meaningful spec. when comparing ? The Wharfedale says "Continous RMS", which is meaningless, but from the peak spec, I think they actually mean RMS.

Another thing to note is that the Wharfedales are Bi-Amplified with 250W on the woofer and another 50W on the HF driver, totalling 300W and will be more efficient as well as likely have a better sound quality. All pretty meaninless, because there are so many other factors to take into account like speaker efficiency. Best I can say is they are in the same ballpark power-wise, and that the Wharfedale looks like the better quality.

most places supply their own PA isn't it?

FatBoy

I am starting to believe you guys are probably right, but just as a reference, here is the ad on gumtree.

http://capetown.gumtree.co.za/c-Stuff-for-Sale-musical-instruments-Laney-P-A-Sysem-W0QQAdIdZ194245731

Includes 2 12' cabs, cables and speaker stands for R3500

Your thoughts?

Skywalker

Totally agree with Alan and Mojo.

I have a pair of the unpowered 15" wharfedales in one of our rehearsal rooms. They do the job and I've never had problems with them(pretty decent, considering how much they are used every evening). I would suggest looking at something a bit more reliable - you never know how 2nd hand PA equipment has been treated even though they say 'it's only been used a few times' :? Save up a bit more cash and go for a setup that will last and that might have a better resale value should you wish to offload it sometime in the future ? As a rule I don't go for 2nd PA gear at all unless I know the seller or know the history of how the gear has been treated.

On the other hand, starting off with a small system and "adding on" like Alan & Mojo suggest is a good idea. You could always scale down for smaller gigs and use the bigger setup for bigger gigs. 8)

AlanRatcliffe

I don't know how much the Laney goes for new, but that looks like a good price. Having said that, I've never believed in skimping on PA - you go for the best possible stuff you can afford and you won't go wrong.

MJJJ and I actually spoke a bit further about it earlier this morning and I do think he's on the right track though. You have the blues jams and taking that into account, you're going to want to gradually upgrade until you have a decent system for those. The Laney would be fine for practice room duties and solo small venue lower volume (coffeeshop type) gigs, but when you need to upgrade from there, you'll be forced to sell off the entire rig and start from scratch anyway - with the Wharfedale, you just add pieces as and when you can.

FatBoy

Yea I agree with you okes now, thanks so much for the input.

To be honest, all I really need at this stage is something to carry my vocals, the wharfedale can do that. Would have liked to be able to add some reverb, but that can come later. Can then get a mixer and the other speaker later.

I can get the wharfedale for R3600. so just R100 more than the Laney system and it will still sort out my immediate problem while giving me plenty of room for growth.

Thanks dudes, much appreciated, now if one of you can buy my FA-66 to fund this that would be grand ?

Riaan-Combrink

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
most places supply their own PA isn't it?

Yep, sad but true! Of the 10 or so places I play regularly, only one has its own PA.

Fritz, also scan through this thread. This was one where we discussed a starter PA and what one should get/not get in order to make it 'ugradable', etc:
http://www.guitarforum.co.za/performance/new-to-performing-live/msg59291/#msg59291

I cannot agree with the other guys more. Once you start playing with the PA, your needs will quickly change. You'll want to upgrade - guaranteed! Its important to buy the best basic set-up, leaving room to grow.

Renesongs

By way of reference the Yamaha Stagepass 500 portable PA that we used last jam gives out 250w per channel the speakers are 10" and it cost me 12K new without stands or cables etc so the Laney looks like a pretty sweet deal for the price. In hind site I would have gone for good powered monitors and mixing desk and effects units as required.

FatBoy

Cool thanks Rene. I think I'm gonna go for one wharfedale speaker and build up as needed.

Reinhard

I have a marshall 100W plexi super PA. Bought it for guitar and I still don;t have a cab for it ☹

FatBoy

Picked up me first bit of PA kit today, thanks for the advice guys!

Wharfedale Titan 12 Active in Black.

Also got a pair of Samson speaker stands.

Done a brief test and nearly cried, thought it's too soft, but then I realised I had the mic input set to low-z. Seems for what I need for now, will just have to wait until I can get to the barn and open her up a bit.

I plugged in the old acoustic as well, seems this will be a great way for me to learn mic technique and get used to singing on a mic while playing.

Yay

inflames

Well done Fritz, that looks lekker!