Bad night, get over it.

DonovanB

so GFSA, I finally played the Blues Train in Durban.
I've been going on and off to watch some of the finest older musicians around play for a while. They are very good and it's a little intimidating to play in their company and I felt a little like I didn't belong there. That turned out to be one of my downfalls.

We were unprepared as a band and had no idea what to play or how we were going to. So we just hacked through some numbers we thought were bluesy enough.

I used someone else's amp which is never good for me. I found my tone wasn't the way I wanted and the GT8 responded differently to this amp. Although that was the least of my worries, I forgot all the chords. I had a shocker of an evening. Thankfully it was short.

My learning points were;
a) don't be intimidated by your surroundings. You deserve to be there.
b) Practice at least once, if not have some sort of discussion before or a plan in place.
c) Check the gear. I tell myself this all the time and I don't practice it. I like my amp and I know my amp so I should use my amp.

All in all, I had a rough one. I got a few compliments which means it was worse by my standards than others. But we are booked there again in September so I can implement my learnings.

Thanks for popping in Pete, was good to meet you. We must organise a get together one day with everyone in Durbs.

Squonk

Thanks for the good advice ?

I definately want to start playing live but I am scared to pieces.
Good to have all these tips and motivating advice on the forum.

?

Dirk

Squonk wrote: I definately want to start playing live but I am scared to pieces.

The first time you go on stage is probably one of the most nerve wrecking moments ever, but you get very used to it eventually.

Donovan, I hear what you're saying.. Sometimes you feel you had a terrible gig and afterwards everyone compliments you on how well you did :-[

Maybe they're just trying to be nice :-\

Bob-Dubery

DonovanB wrote:
My learning points were;
a) don't be intimidated by your surroundings. You deserve to be there.
b) Practice at least once, if not have some sort of discussion before or a plan in place.
c) Check the gear. I tell myself this all the time and I don't practice it. I like my amp and I know my amp so I should use my amp.

For me a lot of playing before an audience comes down to managing the number of things to worry about. So if you can check your leads, pedals etc shortly before playing then those are things that you don't have to worry about. So there's one less thing for the mind to latch onto. It can't suddenly start saying to you, half way through a verse, "Gee... is the battery in your pre-amp ok" because you've checked that it is.

I know some players have a little check list or routine. So they know that the plectrum is there, the spare plectrums there, the guitar is in tune, the rate on the chorus pedal has been checked etc etc (and obviously varying for each of us). This helps to create a comfort zone or, if, like me, you're a "the glass is 1/8 empty" kind of guy, to reduce the DIScomfort zone.

Taking care ahead of time of all the things that you can take care of ahead of time leaves you more time to enjoy playing.

Keira-WitherKay

sorry to hear you had a bad experience.........

but performing on stage is not the same as just playing guitar.......... there is an art to performing at any level........
it's actually part of what i teach my guitar students... i do a few lessons on performance skills....

and you'll be surprised how many factors come into play

most importantly try feel comfortable...meaning don't wear clothes you feel odd in .. it will place you on edge...
and sometimes dressing the part gets you into character ... so if you doing the rock show... look like a rock star not an IT tech on stage...

also as Donovan said use the gear you know works for you ... if your amp is part of your sound... don't use the one onstage ...schlep your own amp there even if it is a hassle

as for repetoire... heheheh have one... know what you gonna play and how long the set is.... cos sometimes these gigs have time limits ...and you don't want the organiser to cut your best number you been saving for the finale cos you ran overtime.....

also don't play songs you can 'just" crack in rehearsal... cos being on stage adds about 20 % of nerves meaning if you can barely play a piece when you relaxed you bound to fluff it on stage.....

and most importantly have contact with audience ... sometimes seeing them groove on your music relax's you ... you feed off that ....
at soft gigs watch the peoples feet under tables are they tapping along to you ... have they turned their chairs to watch you all a good sign....

and also just have fun.... people go out to have fun... and if they see you up there having fun... they will join in ..... and even if you fluff a few notes it won't matter ... cos you created the vibe.... i have found that creating the right vibe by being into your show.... is the key.... and will get you the compliments and the gigs.... even if you not the hottest act .... people like people who enjoy themselves....

and above all have remember playing live is like riding a bicycle the more you do it the less you fall off.... and yeah i would say all musicians when starting out will "fall off' and have bad shows.... it's part of the learning curve.... i know it's odd but sometimes a bad show can teach you more about stage craft than a good one.....

a great musician said ..." world class musicians do not neccessarily know more than other musicians..... but they do know their limitations and work within that ............ " so what i'm saying is do what you do well..... rather play basic technique and rock ... than attempt the advanced stuff and blow it.....

try the above it works.......

peace and light
Keira

CDee

DonovanB wrote: All in all, I had a rough one. I got a few compliments which means it was worse by my standards than others. But we are booked there again in September so I can implement my learnings.

Could not have been that bad, you got booked again. ?
In my experience (playing mostly different churches) you get your days when you think it didn't go well at all. I had that feeling at one church we played (had to use their amp, couldn't hear the monitors etc.). I also got the usual compliments but I didn't accept the compliments because I felt I sucked. At this specific church they recorded our playing live. So the one sound guy told me to listen to the recordings. I listened and couldn't find the places where I thought I made mistakes. So, like Bob said, the mind is a weird thing. I thought I made the mistakes because I wasn't 100% comfortable and couldn't hear properly, but it still sounded good enough for everyone else. We should learn to not be over critical of ourselves. ?

[deleted]

Yes, you shouldn't take mistakes too much to heart, especially on the night itself. In the past I used to prevent myself from gracefully accepting praise (or believing it) and frequently ended up grumpy after a show. Then one day I realised that wasn't a good way to end up after doing something I love (even if it's your professional bread and butter). So I learned that accidents, fluffing chords, etc sometimes just happen - it's best to drop the baggage quickly and not let it eat at you. It's a good idea to make a note, as you have done, of things that went wrong and try to avoid those problems in the future...but don't beat yourself up about it (I hope you're not still doing that).

(This is all, of course, completely non-applicable if you have members of GFSA in the audience, standing there with their arms folded. Then, you're screwed, and you may as well pack up and go home.)

DonovanB

One thing I really battle to do his hide the mistakes from my face.

I ALWAYS pull a face if I make a mistake. I really need to stop that. it just brings everything down. also I had to make a big physical gesture when the bass player hinted for me to take an impromptu solo in a song I forgot the chords.

Like I will always say, you learn. Learn learn learn and learn. Then I also communicate that so others can learn from it as well.

Stratisfear wrote: (This is all, of course, completely non-applicable if you have members of GFSA in the audience, standing there with their arms folded. Then, you're screwed, and you may as well pack up and go home.)

I think there are a lot of us who are n00bs. I would rather play for GFSA than for some ballie who played a blinding set, then says to me, "they're all yours." referring to the audience. No pressure at all... ☹

[deleted]

Yeah, it's funny, but what happens after a show is actually also quite important. Not going off in a huff, looking relaxed and at ease, mingling with people who come up to chat to you about your set - these are all good ways to keep your rep up, even if you're seething inwardly. If you look like the set was crap, that rubs off onto others. So, it's good you're making an attempt to cut out the unhappy face (much more difficult to do in practice). This also ties in with the intimidation factor - not letting the pressure show. (Once, at a festival in Durban, funnily enough, my band had to follow Mandoza, right after Nkalakatha had come out. Ain't no guitar chops gonna make people ooh and aah after three guys were just doing flick-flacks onstage. Hahahahaha.) Point being: don't let stuff get to you - as Keira pointed out, it's quite possibly in THAT that you'll let yourself down, more than you will musically, if you do what you do well.

Neps

Stratisfear wrote: (This is all, of course, completely non-applicable if you have members of GFSA in the audience, standing there with their arms folded. Then, you're screwed, and you may as well pack up and go home.)

ahhh... true, so true!! Strat, you've described your 'stance-in-the-corner' quite well there it seems.. ?

Guy-Onraet

Great post Don, thanks for sharing.

aubs1

Keira WitherKay wrote: a great musician said ..." world class musicians do not neccessarily know more than other musicians..... but they do know their limitations and work within that ............ " so what i'm saying is do what you do well..... rather play basic technique and rock ... than attempt the advanced stuff and blow it.....
try the above it works.......
peace and light
Keira

Lots of good advice here.......so just to add my 5c worth.......

That quote is so gospel Keira, I agree 110%.......... the people who come to a gig are not there to check out your technical skills or abilities, so by doing easy stuff WELL, they THINK you are fantastic!!!! But by going the other way round, you sign your own "death warrant!!!". So to go on stage, do complicated stuff, and make mistakes, is like committing suicide......

To give an example.....The Rolling Stones.......have never done anything that is really so complicated.....but what they do is SO POLISHED, and that explains why they can still draw crowds of tens of thousands after 40 years, and still sound fresh every time they play SATISFACTION (a simple song), and NOT FADE AWAY, (even simpler).......

You find that if you are well rehearsed and polished, it also BOOSTS your confidence on stage......

@ Stratisfear......absolutely good advice!!!

Keira-WitherKay

Neps wrote:
Stratisfear wrote: (This is all, of course, completely non-applicable if you have members of GFSA in the audience, standing there with their arms folded. Then, you're screwed, and you may as well pack up and go home.)
ahhh... true, so true!! Strat, you've described your 'stance-in-the-corner' quite well there it seems.. ?

i always wondered why that was????????? and why is it so competitive to the point of being nasty in pop/rock scene..... i mean is it an ego thing ?

STRANGE BUT in the acoustic scene we mostly support each other ....i mean i have had steve newman/ greg geogiades /albert meintjies and just about all the other acoustic muso's at my gigs and they just wanna jam along and be supportive....... tony cox even set up a gig for me he couldn't do........guy buttery was offering me management advice..... maybe it's the hippie approach and culture related to the acoustic scene.... we too laid back to get competitive..... heheheh or maybe it's those funny cigarettes we smoke.... to us it's all about "peace and light" ............ if you know what i mean ....

i wonder if anyone in acoustic market has had any of that nasty negative competitiveness happen to them... be interesting to hear ....
i must say it's definitely not something i experienced here or abroad ....

peace and light
Keira

Bob-Dubery

Keira WitherKay wrote:
STRANGE BUT in the acoustic scene we mostly support each other ....i mean i have had steve newman/ greg geogiades /albert meintjies and just about all the other acoustic muso's at my gigs and they just wanna jam along and be supportive....... tony cox even set up a gig for me he couldn't do........guy buttery was offering me management advice..... maybe it's the hippie approach and culture related to the acoustic scene.... we too laid back to get competitive..... heheheh or maybe it's those funny cigarettes we smoke.... to us it's all about "peace and light" ............ if you know what i mean ....

i wonder if anyone in acoustic market has had any of that nasty negative competitiveness happen to them... be interesting to hear ....

I'd venture that it's because most artists in that area are generally operating solo - collaborating with others when they want to but when they want to. Bands are much more difficult affairs. There are often problems in bands because all that the band members have in common is the band - they are not really friends.

Working as a solo act means that the only egos you have to contend with are your own and those of people that you chose to collaborate it (and can chose not to collaborate with again).

Nothing to do with funny cigarettes. Plenty of people in the pop/rock scene smoke those too.

DonovanB

Bob Dubery wrote: Bands are much more difficult affairs. There are often problems in bands because all that the band members have in common is the band - they are not really friends.

Heck band politics. I'd rather be an COPE member in an ANC meeting thanks...

Actually my original discussion has nothing to do with the band. The thing is that as a lead guitarist you are required to shine. Thats pretty much the point of a lead guitarist
this;

aubs1 wrote: the people who come to a gig are not there to check out your technical skills or abilities, so by doing easy stuff WELL, they THINK you are fantastic!!!! But by going the other way round, you sign your own "death warrant!!!". So to go on stage, do complicated stuff, and make mistakes, is like committing suicide......

....is very true.

On further analysing, I had a bad night because I forgot 20% of the songs. The other 80% was good. But because I focused on the negative it ruined it for me.
In fact, a mate of mine who is an awesome musician, who I have learned a lot from made the comment when I got off stage,"When did you get so good?" (of course that could be taken any which way, like "you were really kak before") I took that as a vote of confidence.

Very little of this has to do with politics or ego. Or even who is watching you. It is all about what you expect of yourself and what you can learn from when it goes wrong.

Why did I put such pressure on myself to begin with?
What Contirubuted to that? and
How can I get past it in the future?

so I had a bad night. I'm over it and the future is still as bright as a spotlight in a comedy club.

[deleted]

"Uh oh, I think this levity's gone into full cardiac arrest!"

"What do we do, Dr Neps?"

"Nothing to be done here. Move along."

PeteM

Hey Donovan - Don't know how I missed this thread.
Firstly, I want to say that you guys did just fine. I don't think that any of us are completely satisfied with the technical performances we give, well at least I'm never satisfied. We notice the things that we screwed up, but in most cases the audience hasn't a clue how it should have been played.

I reckon that any 'real' muso, no matter what genre of music they play, can identify with and empathise with any mistakes that might have been made on the night. It's happened to everyone!

For me, playing music is not about competing or showing off your technical ability - its about expression and giving the audience of yourself - your soul. Why do people come to the venue? Because they want to be moved by those weird looking dudes on the stage. (Unless of course they came for the booze and the chicks/guys - but they don't count.)

As you know, our band is playing at the Blues Train on the 22 Sept.
Will we be 100% in our technical playing? Not likely!
Will we give 100% of ourselves to our audience? That's the aim - let's hope we can do it!

See you and Swell Band again at the Blues Train on the 8th is it?

DonovanB

thanks Pete. encouragement like that is always welcome. ?

we've been moved to the 13th October so it will be a while. I'm going to play my strat this time. I feel more bluesy playing that than the Les Paul. and I do love that Strat...

Willem186

I have played live quite a bit ?, played jazz gigs, blues gigs and METAL... (my 2c) is that you can never really be satisfied onstage, things go wrong, you mess up, as you always reckon you can do it better, but as soon as you get offstge and guys reckon you rocked or bluesed or jazzed their socks off, then appreciate it and move on to learn a bit more, you never stop learning and playing, if the crowd liked, then the crowd liked.

Cool in Denial (SOAD)

Alcatrax

Tips from my hard-won experience:

1) If you play a bum note, play it again so the audience thinks you did it on purpose.
2) The more the audience drinks, the better you will sound.
3) If you are a one-man-band there is no shame in having a one-man-audience.
4) If you got paid, the gig was a success.

Have fun!

Peter G