Have you tried the CASA forum:

http://www.composers.co.za/phpBB2/index.php

hello dave... heheheh i'm one of the people who detest the use of backtrax.... but thats not the focus here.... we can argue that one another day heheheh gotta keep the forum spiced up with juicy controvesy ....

but in regards your question.... far as i know.... in this country (and i don't perform here that much so just what i've picked up in last while) is that the venue (where you perform) needs a liscence from SAMRO to have live music..... and as Long as that is in place they never hassle anyone.... and last i heard from a venue i perform in it's only a few hundred a year so no biggie for a bussiness....

i would not stress over trying to liscence your backtrax unless you using them in a recording for a cd or commercials  or film, then  i would be more careful..... as you can be sued for copywrite infringements ect ect ..........

but to play the local pub .... nah just ask em to buy the live music liscence and then claim ignorance if anyone says anything ......... and you claim you created them yourself....

so don't stress.... i'm sure some small print says you need a liscence but i doubt with all the cover music in this country anyone enforces anything ...........

although i would be happy the day they banned the use of backtrax from live use or insisted ...and enforced that muso's buy expensive liscences to use backtrax....and so severely that muso's will not find it financially viable to use.... cos the reality is  backtrax  puts  musicians out of work..... and makes live musicians lazy.... oh well one day .....


peace and light
Keira   

Keira WitherKay wrote:
but in regards your question.... far as i know.... in this country (and i don't perform here that much so just what i've picked up in last while) is that the venue (where you perform) needs a liscence from SAMRO to have live music..... and as Long as that is in place they never hassle anyone.... and last i heard from a venue i perform in it's only a few hundred a year so no biggie for a bussiness....

Thanks for your response - the venue I play does have a SAMRO license, so I suppose that's problem solved!

Manfred Klose wrote: Have you tried the CASA forum:

http://www.composers.co.za/phpBB2/index.php

Thanks, will check it out!
Dave

I'm not an expert (PM ColinS if you want an expert ? ), but AFAIK, it's not your responsibility. It is the responsibility of the venues where you play - they pay royalties to SAMRO, who pass them on to the composers. This applies to all music played or performed at a venue - live covers or DJ. The only thing you might want to do is give the venue your setlist each night so that they can have a record of what was played when.

There has been some trashtalk about musos performing covers with MIDI backtracks, but I think most understand the necessity. I think you'll find we have more than a few members who make their living this way. There was a time when most venues wouldn't hire one or two man outfits unless they had MIDI setups, and the quality of a band was determined by the quality of their MIDI files.

I'm of the opinion that with the cover circuit you do what you have to so you can carry the gig. Many places can't support a four or five piece band, but still demand full band sound - because that's what their patrons demand. That's their market, and that's when you haul along your MIDI rig to cater for that market. There may be a restaurant gig where they want a singer with a guitar doing the folk thing, and there may be another gig where they want a full band of flesh-and-bone musos. As a cover musician, you follow the market, play wherever you can and with whatever is needed for the gig (be it six more band members or a midi rig). That's professionalism.

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
I'm of the opinion that with the cover circuit you do what you have to so you can carry the gig. Many places can't support a four or five piece band, but still demand full band sound - because that's what their patrons demand. That's their market, and that's when you haul along your MIDI rig to cater for that market. There may be a restaurant gig where they want a singer with a guitar doing the folk thing, and there may be another gig where they want a full band of flesh-and-bone musos. As a cover musician, you follow the market, play wherever you can and with whatever is needed for the gig (be it six more band members or a midi rig). That's professionalism.

Thanks, couldn't agree more! By playing the cover gigs, I make my original music viable. I.e. I use the cash that I generate from covers to pay for equipment and studio time for my original work (which is duo acoustic folk - a genre that doesn't please drunk punters who want to party).

Dave the Pub muso wrote: Hi Guys. What's the deal with licensing for public performance of MIDI Tracks? I've attempted to conctact SAMRO to no avail (even though they were great when it came to my own songs). SAMPRA sent me some info but it seems to relate to recorded music only (i.e. DJ kind of stuff). So what are the legal issues involved with performing live with MIDI backing?

It seems to me that there must be a differnence in terms of rights and royalties between (for example)
a) A pre-recorded backing track of "Sultans Of Swing" where some bunch of musicians have made the recording that you are using
b) Having a set of MIDI data that will produce a backing track for "Sultans Of Swing" even though no actual musicians performed on what you are using for backing.

Absolutley Bob! I'm sure there is a legal distinction. All of the instruments used in my tracks are played by my good mate Roland (the SC88-st).

Hi Dave.

I have been asking a lot of questions to, and about, SAMRO lately. I'm busy applying for membership at SAMRO. As far as I understand, any musician playing covers needs to make a list of the song they plan to play at a gig. That list then needs to be given to SAMRO, and they make a price that you have to pay them. The reason...You are being payed at that pub for performing other artist's songs. It doesn't matter whether you're doing it with backtracks or solo guitar. The pub does the same, but not for the songs you perform, but for the songs that they broadcast, in other words, from a CD player or PA etc.

This said, I have to agree with Keira that these "laws" are not enforced to these extremes. I have plenty of frineds performing covers, and I have done it various times in the past. So rather not bother SAMRO with these enquiries.

Then again, I live in the Western Cape, in Stellenbosch. I don't know hard up they are about these laws in Jo'burg.

Spacey wrote: I have been asking a lot of questions to, and about, SAMRO lately. I'm busy applying for membership at SAMRO. As far as I understand, any musician playing covers needs to make a list of the song they plan to play at a gig.

The pub does the same, but not for the songs you perform, but for the songs that they broadcast, in other words, from a CD player or PA etc.

Spacey, I think you're confusing two separate issues.

You don't have to be a 'member' of SAMRO to perform music live. You become a SAMRO member if you're a COMPOSER of music. Sort of like registering your copyrighted work. When others then PERFORM your work, or a pub plays a CD containing your work, SAMRO collects your royalties from the venue, and pays it over to you (less an admin fee).

Alan,etc above are right. It is the VENUE that pays the royalties to SAMRO - not the performer. This is the form the venues fill in:
http://www.samro.org.za/tinymce/jscripts/tiny_mce/plugins/filemanager/files/Live_Performance.pdf

Bob - I'm sure you're right re the differing royalty (full recording vs midi)- but whatever the mode of calculation, the appropriate royalty is paid by the venue (not the performer).

Most venues will need an E1-3 licence:
http://www.samro.org.za/index.php/Music%20Users/licenceobligations/

Riaan

I understand what you mean about becoming a member etc. But if that counts for me, as a composer (others paying royalties for performing my songs), why does that not count for me performing their songs?

Spacey wrote: Riaan
I understand what you mean about becoming a member etc. But if that counts for me, as a composer (others paying royalties for performing my songs), why does that not count for me performing their songs?

Its just the way its structured to make it work in practice. If SAMRO had to collect royalties (to pay to you, the composer) from the dozens of pub musos in say Cape Town, that would be very difficult to do (and administer). So they collect it from the venues (who are fewer, and easier to administer). A pub must be licensed to sell alcohol, zoned for business use, etcetc. So this is another licence they need - a licence to play music (live or recorded) over a speaker system to their customers. It actually comes from legislation passed by parliament (duty on venues, not individual musos). Its simple mechanics - they can collect it efficiently from fixed premises venues, but not as easily from roving musos!

All these pubs, rstaurants, etc who play mp3s in the background (or the DSTV music channels) need to be licensed. If they host live musos (backtrack or full ive, they need a different category licence; E1 or E3, etc).

Also, remember that 'membership' of SAMRO (for composers) is free. So the collecting of royalties is something entirely different.

Its the taking of money from broadcasters and live venues, and distributing it to 'members'. So being a 'member' is not what contributes money to composers. It is what makes you eligible to recieve money if a broadcaster (SABC, Multichoice) or performer (disco,pub, Barnyard Theatre, etc) 'performs' your music by either playing your disc or performing (or hosting a performance of) your song live.

Riaan

Thanks for the explanation. I also had a look at the forms that you posted the links of, and it makes more sense now.