[VOTE] The GuitarTalk Contrast Challenge!

V8

Upwards & onward with our second challenge of 2020...

We've four entries for the Contrast challenge...and they're pretty darn good - all of them!

I reckon this month's might be the hardest voting choice in a while? It'll take a while for me to process it - I'm gonna have to give them all a whirl on headphones.

Daveo1977 & ScottyDogg - Extreme Violins

Whoop!! Whoop!! Please check out this collaboration between ScottyDogg & I. \m/

Yeti - Free Now

Here's my entry. It's a guitar driven EDM track with a dash of cheesy pop sensibility. I wanted to get contrast between sections as well as between instruments but also tried to produce something that sounds like it belonged as a single piece... contrast rather than conflict.

klaasvakie - Hold Back

Variations on the theme from James Bay's Hold back the river. I was trying to image what would happen if you had a contrast slider (like in photoshop), but for music.

guidothepimmp - GTP's Trance Brootz

Here is my entry. Modified a track I had from a while ago. the contrast is intended to be the traditional instruments vs the electronic stuff.
Caveat.. need either headphones or actual speakers to hear it. lots of low end that gets lost on laptop speakers unfortunately.

That's our four entries - make your mark! Voting closes 23:59 on the 23rd February 2020.

As always, a beeg thank you to you, the voters, for having a listen and a vote - y'all rock!!!

domhatch

good gawd y'all! these are magnifico! plenty of thought went into each of them, and the productions are all schweet as heck. imma have to have another proper listen through speakers a bit later.

then i shall pronounce judgment
dh|

studmissile

Well done. Looking forward to giving a refined listen.

domhatch

ok, i'm afraid my sennheiser hd 380 pros are of blimmin' no use at all. gonna have to put each of these through the monitors after all. as i suspected.

what the headphones did clarify for me, over the laptop speakers however, is that there is a depth of production here i don't think i've heard in a compo in a long while. this will not be judged on production value, but on interpretation. at least by me. and that throws it open to everyone.

on first hearing, i had a clear winner in mind. not so any longer.

splendidly done folks, one and all
dh|

V8

If you don't want to click through every track or just want a playlist for background listening

Sadly @guidothepimmp has his track on private so I can't add it to the playlist - if you change to public, I'll add it G!

studmissile

Not an easy challenge, I started, got frustrated and then got side tracked. So congratulations to those who did it.

Klaasvakie: Bang on the money. Hit all the right notes for this challenge.

Yeti: Awesome track or should I say song? Great vocals and playing but with more subtle contrasts than the other entries.

Daveo1997 & ScottyDogg: Was looking forward to this following the thread and it didn't disappoint. Really impressive collaboration. My vote was a toss up between you guys and Klaasvakie.

Guidothepimmp: I think it was my favourite entry? Loved the idea and playing but would have liked to have heard more of a contrast between the two. When I think of tranz/electronic, I always imagine more 808 type beats?

In the end it required nit-picking to vote. I agree with domhatch, all are outstanding productions. I thoroughly enjoyed listening. Well done guys.

guidothepimmp

studmissile awesome.. thanks for the great feedback.. 100% agree

klaasvakie

@studmissile I think you are being waayyy to kind here, but I'll take what I can get 🙂

I found it a tough challenge as well, I hit a bunch of dead ends and only came up with the final idea around a week before the deadline. I spent a bit more time on the production on this one than on my previous entries (there is at least some stereo stuff going on), and I think/hope it was worth it, it needs a lot more work before it's as polished as the others though.

I also found it a tough challenge to vote for, definitely the closest one in a while I think. My thoughts on the others:

Daveo1997 & ScottyDogg: This is such a slick track, and so well made. I think if I had a Within Temptation or Epica CD on and yours snuck inbetween I really wouldn't be able to tell. You guys definitely have your production on point and I'm jealous of the tight rhythm guitar playing on here. Really love the strings-only section at 1:43, a very nice touch.

@Yeti I love this track so much, I think easily your best songwriting to date (at least from what I've heard). The bend at 33s and the major lift at 1:44 stand out. I also like the lead playing from 1:52-2:10 ---- if I ever came up with such a tasty lead line I wouldn't've sung over it, but the way you arranged it kinda makes a statement: "Look, I can come up with these sick licks all day long, even during the singing, so deal with it". I voted for this even if it wasn't as contrasty as @guidothepimmp's.

@guidothepimmp To my ears this is definitely the most contrasty of the bunch. You managed to produce one of the heaviest guitar sounds I've ever heard and the laser blasts contrast well with it. I'm trying to imagine what this could be the soundtrack for and I figured a Rob Zombie / Star Wars mashup would be a great place to go. Lets get House of 1000 Siths made! The only reason this didn't get my vote was because it feels like it needs a chorus of some kind.

Yeti

Thanks guys, I appreciate the comments. This was one of those songs for me that just sort of wrote itself. Started with a riff I’d been playing with for months, figured out it worked over a descending chord sequence and the rest just came together piece by piece… even the lyrics were more or less ad-libbed (no great surprise there 😛).
I’m pretty pleased with it all things considered (although perhaps I should have dropped the key by a tone or two).

I’ll add my voice to the throng and say this was a difficult one to call. Really enjoyed all entries.

Daveo1977 & ScottyDogg
There are some very interesting ideas and contrasts in here. I’ve found it’s one that I like more and more with each subsequent listen and even found myself humming bits of it to myself. I did find that it got a little repetitive in places… possibly could do with a vocal line in places… but all in all very cool.

klaasvakie
Loved your idea of the contrast slider… I think this is what ultimately won my vote. I particularly like the rhythm you chose over the clean guitar in the beginning and love that tap, it’s awesome to see how much progress you’re making. If I have a complaint it’s that there is too much of a jump up to the tap section and it’s difficult to reconcile it with the original theme… I’d have liked another step before it that bridged the gap a little.

guidothepimmp
Maaaan, that tone is huge! I love the sound and feel of the piece and the playing is on point as always. Just found that it all sounded a little too at home with itself for the challenge (same as mine I guess), I’d have liked to see you push the trance stuff a little harder to bring out the contrast more.

klaasvakie

Yeti I particularly like the rhythm you chose over the clean guitar in the beginning

Alas, I can't take credit for that, its me trying to get close to James Bay's drums using Powerdrummer. The heavy drums are a bunch of cut and pastes from a youtube drum track called "southern metal drum track at 135bpm"

Yeti If I have a complaint it’s that there is too much of a jump up to the tap section and it’s difficult to reconcile it with the original theme… I’d have liked another step before it that bridged the gap a little.

You and me both man, agree with this 100%. I really struggled with two of the transitions, minor clean to minor tapping at 43s, and then the minor to major transition at 1:26. I did put down a couple of takes of something at a Bryan Adams level of heavy to try and bridge the gap on the way going heavier, but by then I was already in the minor key and I couldn't come up with something that worked well. If you have any ideas I'm all ears.

For the minor to major tapping bit I resorted to a super cheesy pick scrape which kinda worked to bridge the key change a bit. This begs the question, for how many measures are you allowed a pick scrape before all the guitarists in the audience groan audibly? I decided to play at safe and keep it short 🙂

guidothepimmp Where did those chops come from?

Been learning a bunch of Gojira stuff 🙂 That's actually how I stumbled on the idea, I have my LP in D-standard for Gojira and then James Bay popped up on Yousician and it's also played with the guitar in D-standard. So had a go at James Bay but still had the Gojira patch loaded.

I'm gonna be dead honest here, I'll have to put in a bunch of practice before I can do a play-through of the tapping bits live. I recorded the minor tapping bit, the minor refrain and the major tapping bit as separate tracks in reaper. No way I'm getting a quiet and clean take of the whole bang-shoot, I probably blew about 40 takes between those 3 sections.

I'm not that happy with the tone on my rhythm guitar, went for a modeled mesa boogie, hoping for a hetfieldish sound, but I think it could be better. If you have any ideas I'm all ears.

guidothepimmp

Great feedback fellers.. ta! For this challenge, i really struggled to come up with an idea.

Daveo and Scotty. I followed the evolution and thought it sounded great. The mixing.. timing and production were all on point. The really fast beat caught me by surprise, the guitar balanced it out nicely though.

Yeti. What a catchy riff. I immediately grabbed a fiddle to work it out. The ease that you churn out tunes never ceases to amaze me. Great tone, great phasing.

Klaasvakie. Where did those chops come from? Damn.. i thought the contrast slider idea was great.. and was bamboozled by how you actually did it. I voted for yours based on the clever idea, great playing, and slick composition.

On my tune,
I had been toying with these electronic sounds since i got my midi controller.. so thought.. lemme give it a bash.
Yeh i agree with the feedback points raised. I hope to re-do the tune with exactly the points raised.. bring out the electronic/trance sounds more.. i purposely hid them.. largely based on the feedback from my mrs.. and my discomfort with the sounds really.. but i quite enjoyed playing around with it. So its the remix and re do of the electronic stuff.. and to build the song properly with some bridges and choruses.. and perhaps a lead and outro bit.. i do have some vocals for it.. but i couldnt get the sound i was looking for. Think Ministry and NiN. I find myself foot tapping to it lol.. so now i need to finish it and try do it justice.

All in.. enjoyed getting away from my tried and trusted comfort zone.

V8

After two headphon'ed up listens I've a winner. I think. I'll probably chnage my mind after I've finished typing this up. 😆

Overall production levels were killer - across the board! Everyone take a bow, we might have to re-institute the four track limit thing again just to keep a potential entry attainable for us mere mortals!

Tone of the month - Guido's pimmp takes it. Phat & crushing, it was both brutal and beautiful.
Surprise of the month - T'was subtle but Yeti's change of vocal from verse to chorus shone as a moment for me.
Collab of the month - Well, it's obvious...Dave & Scotty! It glued together real well, like video game soundtrack well!
Creative approach of the month - Klaasvakie - the idea of a contrast slider for music got me thinking - which is my favourite thing about these challenges!

Scottydogg & Daveo1997 - Dug it, no crits from me, beats were intriguing. On 1st listen I thought maybe the strings could be bumped up a bit in the mix, but on 2nd listen I heard differently. Would make a sweet track for a videogame?

Yeti - Great intro & buildup - real cool!. I thought you did push your vocal range a bit (not that I know anything about it) - The change of verse to chorus REALLY worked. Particularly hearing the change of the placement of vocals - subtle but super effective. Only thing, it was (for me) the least contrasting of the four tracks.

Klaasvakie - I'm not the first to say it - you have been practicing! <high five!>. The most contrasting of the entries. Not sure the drums from the last heavy section worked under the the outro (for me). Really like the feel f the reverb's space in the clean section and the heavy section was appropriately ...heavy! Time well spent (sounds like you put in MANY hours)

Guidothepimmmmmmmmmmp - Crushing toanz. Would have replaced the drums with a a trance rhythm section - 1x bassline (rolling triplet feel al Iron Maiden gallop, bom ba-ba-bom ba-ba-bom) and 1x 4/4 kick (heavily compressed & mixed flat like a pancake).That kick + bass line formulae makes the bunnies bounce...:wink: Was the track to bring a immediate grin when the guitar kicked in.

Nice one guys, listening was time well spent, I have it between scotty/dave & klaas this month.

Really well done all (and thanks again to all who entered, listened, voted and commented - you all rock!

domhatch

hell's bells, i'll say it again these are bangin' choons. schweet y'all!

V8

Well done @klaasvakie! Thought it might be a bit closer, but you are the clear winner this month - hattip to all the entrants, thought the production level was fantastic this month.

...So onto the debatable 'prize;' 😆 ...what's the next topic?

klaasvakie

V8 Well done @klaasvakie! Thought it might be a bit closer, but you are the clear winner this month - hattip to all the entrants, thought the production level was fantastic this month.

Thanks guys, what an honour 🙂. Was a real fun one.

W.r.t. to the next one, what do you guys think of a "In the style of ....." challenge. So I'm thinking either compose something in the style of another band/artist or take an existing song and transform it into the style of another band/artist.

Let me know what you think.

Yeti

Thanks for running this as always @V8... and thanks to everyone who voted and commented. This was a fun one.

V8

Yeti Always a pleasure, particularly when we're putting out tunes like this month's - inspiring!

V8

klaasvakie what do you guys think of a "In the style of ....." challenge. So I'm thinking either compose something in the style of another band/artist or take an existing song and transform it into the style of another band/artist.

Heh...right up my alley! I;'ve got rioffage up my sleeves - it's also a great way to learn new tunes, if only to hack them apart later!

klaasvakie

klaasvakie W.r.t. to the next one, what do you guys think of a "In the style of ....." challenge. So I'm thinking either compose something in the style of another band/artist or take an existing song and transform it into the style of another band/artist.

So @V8, we doing this? Or does someone have a better idea?

domhatch

V8 what do you guys think of a "In the style of ....." challenge. So I'm thinking either compose something in the style of another band/artist or take an existing song and transform it into the style of another band/artist.

me likey. that gives pretty much free rein to everyone. but if i may, can we add back some restrictions, as suggested? like maybe 2 minutes/4 tracks, for instance? (vocals not counted, of course...)

those of us with limited to non-existent skills in mixing and related fields would still like to make half a showing... 😅

or in my case, a showing of any kind. 😆

daveo1977

Thank you again to the GuitarTalk community for getting the creative juices flowing! This month's contrast challenge was a fun one, and all the entries refreshingly different. I really enjoyed your vocals, Yeti and the song reminded me of a Marillion disc from the 90's called "Marillion and The Positive Light: Tales from the Engine Room". Before this album, I'd only heard "Radiation", and the dance music elements represented quite a departure from their prog rock style.

James Bay was a lekker choice, Klaasvakie, and you brought something unique to it. Props for negotiating all those changes and a well-deserved win! And Guidothepimp, I agree with V8 about those crushing tones! Do you know a band called Clutch? I think you might enjoy their album, "Earth Rocker". There's a song on there called "D.C. Sound Attack!" that I'm very fond of.

As for me, I was so stoked when ScottyDogg agreed to collaborate. It's proof that two heads are better than one, and when one of them can actually play guitar, well... I also learnt about the power of midi. I had originally programmed the drums in Ableton, and when ScottyDogg did drum replacement all he needed was a midi file of that track. @ScottyDogg You came up with some excellent riffs there, and I was wondering how you worked out those guitar melodies?

ScottyDogg

daveo1977 haha the chords were a real biatch - spent days trying to figure those out. The melody leads were probably like 2 hours or so of noodling with octave chords - I like those cause they limit the number of frets to fiddle with (₂₀ frets on the 5th string) and sound nice and full. There's a lot of rhythm you can add when using them with rests and extra hits etc.

Regarding the midi - yeah, so I just took the midi, moved notes a bit (Getgood Drums Modern and Massive uses different mapping to General Midi), played around with the velocities (drummers obviously can't hit blast beats as hard as normal hits plus you don't want all hits to be the same velocity throughout cause then it sounds super robotic), and edited the beats slightly (not sure what the theory is behind it but the timings are so weird in the quieter/chuggy part - sounds 4/4 but every new bar starts on the second beat of the bar?)

I would really like to give you a remixed version though - I'd like your orchestral parts a lot more prominent that how it turned out 🙂

You really nailed the violins etc. though - the parts you've written are fantastic