Do you remix?

daveo1977

Hello everyone!

It's been some time since I've meaningfully contributed, but I do scroll the headlines daily.

On a (Fb suggested) whim I entered a remix contest on Skio Music. When I was a wee lad, EMF rocked my world, and when the song stems for "Unbelievable" became available I could not resist. I use Ableton Live 9 on a laptop, and mix on headphones (not ideal) but the tests in my car, on my cell phone and on an Anker Soundcore bluetooth speaker got me excited.

Would there be any interest in a write-up on what I'd learnt in my first try?

In my quest, I found two great YouTube channels:

White Sea Studio
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFgUBKoy5trmcyVh1e_AS8Q
Jon Sine
https://www.youtube.com/user/jonsine

I checked out White Sea Studio to learn more about a mastering plugin called Ozone. There is a great video here:

Jon Sine has some great insights about what makes a great mix, and you can watch it here:

In this video, Jon explains in an uncomplicated way, stripped of jargon.

There's still time to enter the remix contest for EMF's "Unbelievable", should you be interested (22 days remain). It's fun remixing your heroes!

wern101

daveo1977 Would there be any interest in a write-up on what I'd learnt in my first try?

Absolutely! I find the entire world of mixing a vast and strange place. I would definitely follow your progress!

V8

daveo1977 It's been some time since I've meaningfully contributed, but I do scroll the headlines daily.

Thanks Dave! Love the idea - I do enjoy a good remix - I've even tried my hand at one for a old GFSA challenge - turns out it was my most popular tune on soundcloud, about 1000 plays (over a good few years) ?

You gonna share your final creation I hope?

daveo1977

wern101 Great! YouTube is proving a good resource, like this talk by Bob Power:

daveo1977

V8 Thank you! Sure, it's up on the Skio Music website at this link: https://skiomusic.com/r/Chkf
I tried not to reinvent the original, like when Robert Smith remixed The Cure for the Mixed Up album. I welcome any feedback from forum members.

wern101

daveo1977 Very nicely done! I was expecting a blaze of guitars and rock, but was nicely surprised with the relaxed feel of the song. Very cool!
I do not have the technical know how to comment on the quality of the mix, to my ears it sound excellent!

V8

Like it, nicely mixed - sounds good! Did you record anything fresh for this (I assume you did add some synth parts and some percussion?) or is it all stems?

Digging the loungey vibe - though, if it's a dance track, I struggled with that backbeat-y tambourine - it's a odd mix with the (for me, busy) kick drum pattern that doesn't quite bring the best out of the phat bassline?

Just my 2c!

daveo1977

V8 Great that you had a listen, V8! Yup, I added piano, a synth bass, bits of percussion, a lilt from the flute and some sound effects. I missed two items in the stems: the arpeggiated bass line present during verses, and the piano (such a great sound in the original!)

I hear you on the tambourine. When I created the beat it sounded wonky without something consistent in it, hence the tambourine. I agree that you have to think carefully about how the rhythm section gels. I didn't want to create a straight up house rhythm, but in hindsight you want bass and drums to truly groove together. On bringing out the best, did you see Dishan Abrahams on That Pedal Show? He demonstrates so nicely how placement of bass notes informs the feel the rhythm section has. And here's the link:

I have just finished watching the Bob Power mixing masterclass and omg, there is so much to learn and to try out! Well worth the time spent.

daveo1977

wern101 Thank you very much for listening, Wern!

Two mixing tips I'd like to use in future come from the Bob Power talk:

before mixing, apply high pass / low pass filters to each of the instruments. They idea is to get rid of frequencies that may compete in the mix.
when applying compression, set a slow attack and a quick release. It makes things sound dynamic again.

Of course, every mixing decision depends on the context of the song. Like Bob explains, he came from R&B and hip hop, where the kick is everything. When he mixed his first jazz record, it was a failure, as the kick drum is often mixed way back.

Jazzman105

Hi Dave. Lekker project man. I've been sitting with the idea of remixing 90's radio classics for the modern dance-floor for a long time - but guitar is simply taking up all my available time ?
So this definitely grabbed my interest! Nice tune choice, btw. I haven't heard it in a long time, and it's gonna be stuck in my head for the rest of the day, for sure.

Comments:
- Their seems to be some timing issues... hence the track feels loose in places. Have you applied quantizing where possible?
- I hear V8's comment on the tambourine. I also agree with you that the track needs something to hold everything together. The tambo is probably just not the guy for the job.
- I think your kick pattern is missing the mark. I suggest you play the whole track through listening to the drums and bass alone (muting all other channels). They should "lock in" with each other all the way through - giving you a tight groove on their own.

I know it's a mouthful... but I hope it is of help.

daveo1977

Jazzman105 Jazzman! Thanks for checking out the mix.

This is the trick, I think. Guitars and bass are live, and while I don't doubt that they played to a click in the recording studio, there's that malleability in the groove that comes from humans. Quantization is my friend, but I think having programmed the drums I imposed some rigidity. Maybe in future the idea should be to programme the beat on the fly? I think I set myself up for timing issues because I had the beat in mind before I tested how the vox etc. would fit with it. I did have to make small adjustments in terms of where the vocal and guitar stems were triggered during the song.

Yup, lots to learn about locking into the groove. My conclusion is that in a remix one should highlight the strong parts in the original - i.e. what can I do to capitalise on that excellent groove that's there?, and elevate those bits that I (subjectively) judge as "could be done better".

All in all a really fun thing to do. Even if you grab the stems and chew on it slowly. I never thought I'd have EMF's "Unbelievable" in my grubby little hands... ?

V8

I had to go watch the original video...a lip synced 'Top of the Pops' kinda thing - when the keyboard player started rocking his keyboard (1m30-38), I almost spat coffee all over the monitor - too funny, get that fella a air guitar! ?

This was regarded as rock back in day - wonder what we'd say now? Doesn't matter, still dig it plenty. That wah solo still works for me, actually some really tasty playing by guit and bass.

Tuckstir

@daveo1977
Gave it a listen, actually twice .. once without headphones.. sounded good, but something seemed off. Couldnt put my finger on it.
Gave air a second listen, with headphones on, timing issues, and competing sounds,/rhythms. At time there is just no harmony. .

But that said.. brilliant job, there.. could not be easy putting that together..
Looking forward to more

V8

So , I got the bass stem(s) amd qued them up with some drum loops - coz' I'm curious like that.

For the verse line, I reckon a 16th pattern on the hihats (like the original). In verse and chorus, the kick is a single hit on the one, the double's fall elsewhere - which works for me. And I'd probably got with a straight up housey 1,2,3,4 kick through the chorus though.

Also learnt the super simple - yet really groovey - bass line. Great little line to learn legato playing for the verse riff and more staccato style playing for the chorus (I reckon it's played with a pick) Nice one, thanks @daveo1977 !

daveo1977

Hello there! I've taken your feedback onboard, as well as some strings, trombone and piano.
I may have taken a step backward i.t.o the mix, but I'm happy with the new added bits.
It's up on the Skio Music site again, here: https://skiomusic.com/r/MbK
As before, your feedback is much appreciated.

wern101

daveo1977 Lovely stuff. Very very cool. I especially dig that guitar at the end, completely unexpected but perfect ending!

Tuckstir

Now that is Rocking, Everything is seems to gel better
sometimes (mostly) kiss theory rules (Keep it stupidly simple.) and I think you've achieved that here, vs your first one.

daveo1977

Tuckstir Thank you very much for listening!!
On headphones it sounded fine, but in my car the vocalist sounded like he was singing in the shower ? but I was able to fix that, and now that it's uploaded I'm going to give the EMF remix a rest.
I will write a new post about the mixing things I'd learnt. Watch this space.

V8

Sorry matey, had a quick listen on Mon, but only got a gap now to comment.

daveo1977 but in my car the vocalist sounded like he was singing in the shower

Which was my main comment, sounded like it was drowned a bit in reverb? Had another quick listen now, all fixed ? It feels more loungey now, even though it's at the same BPM as the original, it's pleasently laid back...you sure you from Gauteng? ?

Good luck for the comp - tempted to try my hand, but I know how much time it'd take me to get in something I would still cringe at - let alone get it listenable..