studmissile interesting, wasn't aware of that. He certainly is a man who knows how to play the hype machine (whatever his pedal has to say about it).

studmissile I only came across the whole saga in the last few months so can only comment on the retellings. I'd agree that he didn't drive the hype directly, but he didn't do anything to defuse it either. ?

... and yes, it is strange that he never put out a mass market version, especially since the circuit was reverse engineered and there are now hundreds of klones floating around. I suppose that he wants to keep his name pure... or maybe he's tried and couldn't reach an agreement with any of the big producers.

One reason I enjoyed this story was that - the goop on the original Klon got him 15yrs of "copyright protection" - what I can't figure out is why pedals are allowed to be reverse engineered without (seemingly) any real protections - not that they'd apply in China...

But a nursery rhyme (Happy Birthday) or disney's threadbare mouse get's a literal lifetime+ worth of protection...

When copyright law was first codified in the United States pursuant to the United States Copyright Act, the copyright duration was limited to 14 years. Today, copyrights can last over 100 years. That’s a huge change, and there are an overwhelming number of copyright experts that will tell you that it is all because of a mouse.

I reckon it's more than fair that he got 15yrs of 'hype' outta it - FMR (from my reading), it doesn't seem he's been at all unreasonable about divulging details - albeit - after it was reversed engineered in 2009?

I suppose that the answer is that it's hard to copyright electronics. At a component and sub-circuit level, there is nothing in there that isn't found in other pedals and it's hard to copyright the way they work together because there are almost always other ways of achieving the same result.

The other thing that he did to protect himself was to buy out every single one of the magic diodes that he used, which means that while there are copies, they will never match the exact sound (apparently...can't verify this myself).

When I started looking at this stuff was very surprised at just how open source it actually is... how many tube screamer copies are there? How many fuzzes? It's almost like the entire industry decided not to bother.
Digital may be changing that because it's harder to reverse engineer.

The part of the story that really stands out for me is the early days when he was hand making his pedals in his kitchen and interviewing prospective clients, even really big names, before he'd agree to build them a pedal. That, coupled with the goop on the boards, is something that makes legends.

(A more cynical reply would be to say that Disney has more money to throw at copyright lawyers...)

Yeti it's hard to copyright the way they work together because there are almost always other ways of achieving the same result.

I can dig that - makes a kind of sense.

Still, I'm slightly perplexed how music is copyrighted. There's little doubt that Led Zepplin did rip a bit of a Taurus song off for the intro to Stairway - but the last one I saw of Ed Sheeran apparently ripping off Marvin Gaye (Let's get it on), was a little far reaching (though seemingly, the opinion was that's there is merit to the case).

U.S. District Judge Louis Stanton in Manhattan said he saw similarities between “Thinking Out Loud” and “Let’s Get It On,” including their bass lines, percussion, and “aesthetic appeal,” but a jury would have to decide if the harmonic rhythm of “Let’s Get It On” is too common to be protected.

https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2019/01/ed-sheeran-marvin-gaye-ed-townsand-thinking-out-loud-lets-get-it-on-copyright-suit-jurt

Thing is, it's fairly easy to reverse engineer a song - there's even courses on how to write backing tracks for adverts so you can "sound like" without infringing. And there's only so many possibilities (in tempered scale).

I think the way copyright is currently done is weird. Not that I have any better idea's!

Yeti The part of the story that really stands out for me is the early days when he was hand making his pedals in his kitchen and interviewing prospective clients, even really big names, before he'd agree to build them a pedal.

Absolutely - It's a great story - thoroughly enjoyed the readings around the history of it! ? In guitar terms is recently history too, which makes it even more appealing.

Yeti (A more cynical reply would be to say that Disney has more money to throw at copyright lawyers...)

? Preeetttyyy much! FMR, it was allegedly Disney's ability to pull strings via lobbyists ($$$) that got laws changed before certain works became public domain.

It's a topic that interests me - though I'd be better off playing than reading about it ?

Yeti We've drifted a bit...

I do that. A lot. I usually blame the drummer for the drifting...heh, sneaky bassist ? (P.s. When on guitar, I blame the bassist!)

Good vid - thanks!

Yeti Copyrights are a weird place.

Very. Our former challenge mod was studying (and now qualified, I believe) musical copyright law - it's been a topic that comes up now n then when we do challenges that may use something copyrighted - though it seems 'fair use' has been interpreted in a greyish area than black n white as the internet continues to -errr - mature. I recall a time when tabs were seen as infringements.

I rather enjoyed "Everything is a Remix"- circa 2015, longish watch @ 37m - I reckon he arrives at similar same place as Adam does.

Yeti should not be heard by a jury but rather by a panel of experts

I whole-heartedly agree! First hearing was - nah, not much there. 2nd hearing...okay that bass line is DAMN similar. 3rd hearing, after learning a bit of "Get it on" - bass line is derivative, but it's a aping of the bass player's style's not the song's harmony - the style and R&B tone makes the bass lines sound quite similar - but are they?

A fine line between imitation, inspiration and emulation.

studmissile That 'Blurred Lines' lawsuit redefined copyright law/. That copied a ‘vibe’ ?

Yeti wow... I hadn't followed the blurred lines case at all... that's actually scary.

It's insane. Arguably, it was subjective decision not based on facts but perception. It's a kinda ruling that would only find traction in the US? I reckon a EU court would have laughed it out the court.

Dina Lapolt
LaPolt Law, P.C.
Clients: deadmau5, Aerosmith's Steven Tyler

"The attorney for Thicke, Williams and T.I. was spot-on during the trial's opening arguments when he said 'no one owns a genre or a style or a groove.' Although Thicke and Williams admitted prior to the lawsuit that their songwriting was influenced by Gaye, it's a sad day indeed when being influenced by an artist is considered copyright infringement. … There's also a good chance the jury was biased against the losing side because Thicke testified that he had been drunk and high while recording 'Blurred Lines.' This is not the basis for a decision on copyright infringement. And if any of the jurors think Thicke is the first pop star to record a hit song while under the influence, they must have been raised under a rock."

Geek alert...that pedal shows guys do klon & klones. Dan really knows just how to tweak them to get the pedals a/b'ed - impressed. Spoiler alert - They all sound good ?

V8 awesome, I'll check it out tomorrow. I know andertons did one a while ago... Can't remember the results but I know the tumnus did well.

What do various 'transparent' OD's actually do to your eq? A bit techy, with some breadboarding and schematics - but good explanations - accessible to the layperson. From about 12m30s he talks Bluesbreaker (Morning Glory) vs Klon (Tumnus) circuits and what they do to eq w/graphs - interesting!

V8 just had a chance to watch this. It does explain why you had so much tricks finding a transparent od that works with both guitar and bass.

Yeti Pretty much explains it! He's also got a video on using a EQ pedal as a clean boost - which is the obvious answer - so obvious I didn't think of it. Dial in a 3db volume bump with a little 1k spike and you've got a clean klon.

Or so I think?

I rekon, There's a little bit of magic adding drive to a signal chain - a hint of compression and a touch of dirt goers a long way. We'll see, when I get some pedals to a/b against.

V8 That might be a bit of an oversimplification but I think it'll take you some of the way. The nice thing about doing it through the EQ pedal is that you can then dial in exactly what suits your rig rather than accept something tuned elsewhere... the downside is that you have to dial in exactly what suits your rig and can't rely on something tuned elsewhere. ?

Little bit of thread necromancy but I just bumped into this and thought about your dilemma @V8