Which is the best for live setup: direct or amp mic'd?

funkadelic

Hi. Coming from a rehearsal with another battle with the sound engineer who HATES amps. They want me go direct from a GT-8 to PA mixer for a live concert. My preferred option is guitar -> Boss GT-8 (with external drive pedals and wah) -> Ibanez TSA30 -> mic-> PA mixer.

I just read about a Palmer PDI09 Passive DI Box for guitars with speaker simulator. Maybe this is the ideal solution end the war?

Would you mind sharing your experience on what makes the ideal live setup in say a hall that seats between 100-500 people? That's the size of the venues I mostly play at.

ezietsman

Either option should work fine. If you go direct you're at the mercy of the sound guy for monitoring, which mostly means you'll hear jack s**t.

I avoid this issue by taking only a big ass amp without any way of going into the PA directly. So it must get mic'd. I'm a problem solver that way ?

warrenpridgeon

funkadelic wrote: Hi. Coming from a rehearsal with another battle with the sound engineer who HATES amps. They want me go direct from a GT-8 to PA mixer for a live concert. My preferred option is guitar -> Boss GT-8 (with external drive pedals and wah) -> Ibanez TSA30 -> mic-> PA mixer.

I just read about a Palmer PDI09 Passive DI Box for guitars with speaker simulator. Maybe this is the ideal solution end the war?

Would you mind sharing your experience on what makes the ideal live setup in say a hall that seats between 100-500 people? That's the size of the venues I mostly play at.

I played previously where I used the following:
Guitar -> Line 6 POD HD -> signal split to Jam hub and snake... that way you control what you hear... engineer controls what audience hears. You might still need your passive DI box with emulator... but this way you control what you hear.

YMMV and you'll need some spare bucks to buy the monitoring system.

singemonkey

Direct is easier if you have good monitoring. But sound quality will depend entirely on your amp substitute.

I think it's mad to have a modelling type of amp and then run it through a guitar cab. What's the point? Rather get a floor monitor wedge instead, run a line to the PA and a line to your monitor. Then you really get the advantage. You get good sound going to the PA (depending on the quality of your modeller) and you always have monitoring. And your whole rig is probably lighter than the average combo amp.

Micing up can be great. I love the responsiveness of a real tube amp. You can get great sound quite simply by micing up. But you'll have to have separate monitors to guarantee that you hear it well on stage in some circumstances. Simplest approach is this:

A Sennheiser E609 is a guitar mic with the diaphragm positioned so that you can simply hang it over the front of the amp. Never let someone hang a shure sm57 in front of the amp. I can never understand when people who claim to be sound people do this.

funkadelic

Man I'm drooling over the Mesa 8)

I think it's going to be the Palmer PDI-09 to cover for situations where I may have to use just the multi-effects, and others where I may need to use the head/cab or combo. But I have also looked at the Sennheiser e609 mic. I like the fact that it doesn't need a mic stand.

Pierre-Cronje

funkadelic wrote: Hi. Coming from a rehearsal with another battle with the sound engineer who HATES amps. They want me go direct from a GT-8 to PA mixer for a live concert. My preferred option is guitar -> Boss GT-8 (with external drive pedals and wah) -> Ibanez TSA30 -> mic-> PA mixer.

I just read about a Palmer PDI09 Passive DI Box for guitars with speaker simulator. Maybe this is the ideal solution end the war?

Would you mind sharing your experience on what makes the ideal live setup in say a hall that seats between 100-500 people? That's the size of the venues I mostly play at.

What ever works best for your sound and then use a competent sound engineers.

Every different method produces a different result. Using a mic has many different parameters whereby the type and quality and point of placement on the speaker axis play a role. There should not be feedback problems.

When plugging in straight from the effects units it means the amplifier is bypassed, which might be an integral part of your sound.

Using the line out on the amp. in most amplifiers bypasses the power amp stage and speaker, and will only project the pre-amplifier sound.

My personal preference, on guitar and not bass amplifiers is to use a "speaker tap" which will provide the total sound chain to the mixer. Some amps have this, but it is basically about sampling the sound at the speaker and then sending this to the desk. It is similar to a D.I. and if not mistaken there awesome available in the market.

Arno-West

funkadelic wrote: Hi. Coming from a rehearsal with another battle with the sound engineer who HATES amps. They want me go direct from a GT-8 to PA mixer for a live concert. My preferred option is guitar -> Boss GT-8 (with external drive pedals and wah) -> Ibanez TSA30 -> mic-> PA mixer.

It's simple. That's your set-up. You know your sound. You're comfortable with it. Stick to your guns. Don't let the sound engineer bully you into using anything you're not familiar with. It will ruin the gig for you.

singemonkey

Arno West wrote:
funkadelic wrote: Hi. Coming from a rehearsal with another battle with the sound engineer who HATES amps. They want me go direct from a GT-8 to PA mixer for a live concert. My preferred option is guitar -> Boss GT-8 (with external drive pedals and wah) -> Ibanez TSA30 -> mic-> PA mixer.
It's simple. That's your set-up. You know your sound. You're comfortable with it. Stick to your guns. Don't let the sound engineer bully you into using anything you're not familiar with. It will ruin the gig for you.

funkadelic

Hi thanks for all the replies so far. Much appreciated.

I have two setups which I have painstakingly crafted:
1. Marshall JVM410HJS, 1936 Marshall cab (2x Celestion Vintage 30 speakers), Big Bad Wah and GT-8 (chorus, delay and reverb), 4 cable method.
2. Ibanez TSA30, Celestion Vintage 30 speakers, Big Bad Wah and GT-8 with external drive pedals straight into the amp.

Basically I get a consistent tone whichever setup I use. I obviously prefer the Marshall and gets a killer tone out of this amp.

I'm not a pro which means the sound guys are pretty much amateurs at most of the venues I play at and I want to make it super easy to get this (awesome lol) tone to the audience without having to rely on the sound guy's experience and knowledge.

So right now I'm at the point of making a decision:
A. Get a Palmer PDI-09 Speaker Emulator. Pros: easy to use. Cons: Bypasses guitar amp power and and speaker section
B. Get a Sennheiser e609 mic. Pros: Just hang it over the amp/cab. Cons: Will take a bit of time for correct mic placement
C. Get an Audix i5 or Shure SM57. Pros: Pretty much standard setup? Cons: Timeconsuming to find the "sweet spot"?

My preference at this point is option B. The mic is pricey but might be worth it?

JGP

Apologies for the long links but hopefully it will be useful

https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.audiofanzine.com%2Fsimulateur-de-hp-pour-ampli-guitare%2Fpalmer%2Fpdi-09%2Fforums%2Ft.316244%2Cutilisation-pour-etre-certain%2Cp.3.html&psig=AFQjCNHGvmPKt1SeVQLBujJ-mnV5FDXafg&ust=1469169817045591

https://www.google.co.za/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi3qqnJ-oPOAhXJLhoKHfjvDZ4QjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pedalspluseffectswarehouse.com%2FPalmer_PDI_09_The_Junction_Speaker_Simulator_p%2Fplmr-pdi09.htm&psig=AFQjCNHGvmPKt1SeVQLBujJ-mnV5FDXafg&ust=1469169817045591

The Palmer box can use the speaker out on your amp and feed through to your speaker cab as well as feed FOH or from a line level out (pedal or pre-amp out) to FOH.