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  • Tube vs SS, which is better for the ears?

Hi there.

Ive damaged my ears about 2 years ago and now suffer from chronic tinnitus and experience pain in my ears most of the time.
I can still play guitar but ive got to play on low volume and I cant use too much high end.
I do have special earplugs that helps alot and i can crank a amp up pretty loud if im wearing them.

Im thinking of getting a valve amp again. Would a valve amp produce a softer sound than a decent solidstate amp?

Its difficult to explain, but Ive heard that a valve amp can be more pleasing to the ears.

I can get a valve amp but they are obviously more expensive than SS amps.

Any help info would be greatly appreciated!
    Depends if you want to insert them or just hang them!
      ??? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? Insert what and hang what?
      This isnt a joke to me.
      Dont respond with garbage just because you want your post counter to go up.
        "More pleasing to the ear" has to do with tone rather than your medical condition.
        Keep the ear plugs in and regardless of ss or tube, take care of your ears.
          If you're sensitive to high frequencies and large amplitude, I wouldn't imagine the source of the waveform matters much as long as those criteria are taken into account?

          Out of interest, what happened?
            Dinky88 wrote: ??? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? Insert what and hang what?
            This isnt a joke to me.
            Dont respond with garbage just because you want your post counter to go up.
            Sorry man. I wasn't poking fun at your condition but rather posting what came in to my head when I saw the heading!
              Dinky88 wrote: ??? whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? Insert what and hang what?
              This isnt a joke to me.
              Dont respond with garbage just because you want your post counter to go up.
              That's a bit harsh isn't it? Not impressed.
                proze wrote: If you're sensitive to high frequencies and large amplitude, I wouldn't imagine the source of the waveform matters much as long as those criteria are taken into account?
                I was thinking the same thing.

                When next you visit a Audiologist ask about which part of the frequency range (low, mids, high) you really need to be careful about.

                Something I found interesting : Many moons ago at a outdoor festival I was chatting to the sound guys running the big rig (40k) and they were very proud of the fact that when we (eventually) went to sleep our ears wouldn't be ringing...since I was either in the DJ booth or right in front of the speakers sans earplugs I thought "yeah right"

                Lo and behold he was spot-on. Zero ringing...apparently because they had some seriously high end mid range speakers in their setup (big magnets that controlled the throw of the speaker..or something like that) that minimized or countered distortion in the mid range that allegedly caused the ringing (partial damage).
                Squonk wrote: Depends if you want to insert them or just hang them!
                I had to think for a while about it before I got it (earrings)...did evoke a chuckle though ?


                  Noise induced hearing loss occurs after 85 Db's.... So Whether your running a valve amp or transistor amp..... you'll have to invest in a pair of descent earplugs. Soundwaves are soundwaves at the end of the day mate.
                    Dinky88 wrote: Dont respond with garbage just because you want your post counter to go up.
                    Yes that is very harsh. Watch it.
                      The real difference between the sound from a tube amp vs. a solid state one has to do with the way the amp responds to transients, ie. fast changes in the wave form or signal being amplified.
                      Valves tend to compress naturally when they are subject to overdriving. This also happens when they are being fed an already overdriven signal, although not as much.

                      Here's a solid state vs. tube amplifier being subjected to overdriving or "Clipping" - so called because it looks like someone took a pair of scissors and "clipped" off the tops of the waveforms.


                      When a valve is overdriven, its inherent natural compression tends to round out the sharp, clipped edges of the waveform, making this clipping sound more musical and less brittle and harsh.

                      Valves (The British way of saying "tubes") are natural compressors and have a relatively slow response to very sudden chnges in amplitude.

                      Now think about how this affects your ears. A sharply clipped waveform at the speaker translates into a very harsh movement of air generated by the speaker compared to when the corners of the clipped wave are made nice and smooth by a tube. All of this results in smoother, creamier tone, less brittle and harsh than solid state.

                      I'm a sufferer of tinnitus, though apparently not as severe as yours, and I don't play electric guitar through SS amps any more, as I find that the tube amps are far less jarring on my ears.
                        Be that as it may... The point is, most (if not all) valve amps need to be cranked to get nice power amp distortion. This can however be achieved at lower volumes using a attenuator or some other voodoo.
                        This usually means high volumes. If you are concerned about your hearing and loud amps actually hurt your ears then it's going to take the joy out of playing.
                        Rather get yourself an excellent SS modelling amp like a cube or a line6 POD or spider or a kemper, fender Mustang, etc etc etc... There's a plethora of options available. I use a Roland cube for 60% of my practicing, since i can play it very softly and still get my tone sounding decent.
                          Also, for bedroom playing, cut the mids on your amp a little bit. Like something between 9 and 11o'clock. Less than that can kill your sound and more than that does sting your ears a little bit. In a live application you may have to roll those mids up again to cut through the mix.
                          Dinky88 wrote: Dont respond with garbage just because you want your post counter to go up.
                          And the double post isn't just to push up my post counter. ?
                            Apologies for the nerdy comments I'm about to make, I suppose it can come across as pedantic. Meanwhile I would just like to clarify some of the 'mystery' surrounding the question why valve amplifiers are so darn cool. I would also like to add that my post count is far too high already.
                            Airguitar wrote: The real difference between the sound from a tube amp vs. a solid state one has to do with the way the amp responds to transients, ie. fast changes in the wave form or signal being amplified.
                            Not entirely true, but often it is one of the factors. Transient response of most valve amps is faster and therefore causing less listening fatigue, since they tend to need less negative feedback than most ss amps. There are a couple of high-end sand amps with little or no feedback, the sound of which (not surprisingly) gets compared to valve amp sound. Transient intermodulation distortion (as the errors in amplifying with lots of negative feedback are called) however is something completely different from harmonic distortion occurring in valve amps when overdriven.
                            Airguitar wrote: Valves tend to compress naturally when they are subject to overdriving. This also happens when they are being fed an already overdriven signal, although not as much.
                            Correct but note that compression only occurs when overdriven because if the input amplitude goes up, the output amplitude cannot anymore.
                            Airguitar wrote: When a valve is overdriven, its inherent natural compression tends to round out the sharp, clipped edges of the waveform, making this clipping sound more musical and less brittle and harsh.
                            ...actually it is not compression that does this, it is the nonlinearity of the valve characteristic close to maximum/minimum current levels.
                            Airguitar wrote: Valves {..} have a relatively slow response to very sudden chnges in amplitude.
                            Eh.. No. The speed at which an amplifier stage responds to changes in the input signal is called rise time; valves stages tent to have faster rise times than sand stages. If you distinguish between amplitude (the average distance between nothing and your signal, measured over a bit of time) and the signal level itself at a certain point in time, the difference becomes clear: the valve stage is at the point of being overdriven no longer able to let the output voltage change follow the input voltage change. This is ONLY at the min/max current through the valve. It is not slow, rather it runs out of current. Because it does not pick up the linear amplification until the input signal goes below the clipping point, the amplitude is not as it should be and that we call compression. If the valve stage were just slow, it would be able to respond at no compression at a later point in time, but it will never. See?
                              psyx wrote: The point is, most (if not all) valve amps need to be cranked to get nice power amp distortion.
                              So if you want distortion at low volumes, get a 1/4W or smaller valve amp.
                              psyx wrote: This can however be achieved at lower volumes using a attenuator or some other voodoo.
                              No voodoo, when unable or unwilling to buy flea watt valve amp this is done with either power scaling, ppimv master volume controls or 'hotplate' power dissipation. Maybe a combination of these. Not magic.
                              psyx wrote: This usually means high volumes.
                              It only means high volumes when people do not LISTEN when those in the know say that 1/4W is a lot for bedroom use already.
                              psyx wrote:
                              Rather get yourself an excellent SS modelling amp like a cube or a line6 POD or spider or a kemper, fender Mustang, etc etc etc...
                              Ouch, how we disagree. Please at least don't call a Kemper a modeller since it is a profiler. Then, let it be said that only if you are willing to compromise a lot on response, can a modeller be of any use for practice.
                                Interesting discussion going here with a coupla misunderstandings methinks.

                                Once you have tinnitus, the chances are pretty good that the inner ear damage to the cilia (fine hairs) in the cochlea are permanent. In my opinion it does not matter what type of amp you use, the damage was done.
                                The way forward is to protect the remaining auditory senses by having special in-ear hearing protectors made that is attenuated to say something like 95 decibels. Normal speech is still possible but the higher frequencies and sound waves will be blocked out. With the lower frequencies such as a bass and drums it is advisable (not always possible) to wear a muff which protects the auditory bone behind the ear against low frequency noise transfer.

                                Rather protect what you have else one may not be able to distinguish between Tube vs SS sound at all.
                                  :sorry: "
                                  Rather get yourself an excellent SS modelling amp like a cube or a line6 POD or spider or a kemper, fender Mustang, etc etc etc... - See more at: http://www.guitarforum.co.za/general-discussion/tube-vs-ss-which-is-better-for-the-ears/?action=post;num_replies=15#sthash.Y26OynBq.dpuf"

                                  Putting a Kemper in the same boat as a Cube? What's Happening.

                                  Dude whatever amp you choose go to the pharmacy and get a pair of decent plugs.... Protect your ears. Playing guitar is alot of fun.. Not being able to hear what your playing irrelevant of what amp your running.... Not so much fun.
                                    Gearhead wrote:
                                    psyx wrote: The point is, most (if not all) valve amps need to be cranked to get nice power amp distortion.
                                    So if you want distortion at low volumes, get a 1/4W or smaller valve amp.
                                    psyx wrote: This can however be achieved at lower volumes using a attenuator or some other voodoo.
                                    No voodoo, when unable or unwilling to buy flea watt valve amp this is done with either power scaling, ppimv master volume controls or 'hotplate' power dissipation. Maybe a combination of these. Not magic.
                                    psyx wrote: This usually means high volumes.
                                    It only means high volumes when people do not LISTEN when those in the know say that 1/4W is a lot for bedroom use already.
                                    psyx wrote:
                                    Rather get yourself an excellent SS modelling amp like a cube or a line6 POD or spider or a kemper, fender Mustang, etc etc etc...
                                    Ouch, how we disagree. Please at least don't call a Kemper a modeller since it is a profiler. Then, let it be said that only if you are willing to compromise a lot on response, can a modeller be of any use for practice.
                                    beardedmoose wrote: Putting a Kemper in the same boat as a Cube? What's Happening.
                                    Sheesh guys, take it easy!

                                    I know all too well that a Kemper is a whole different animal. I was just using it as an example.

                                    And I know all too well that a modelling amp cannot compare to a real tube amp... I was just listing it as a possible compromise.

                                    Get a Hughes n Kettner Tubemeister, which can scale down to 1Watt for low volume operation. The Orange terror series can go down to 7 watt, but that can still be amazingly loud!
                                      There are excellent options beyond cubes, mustangs et al..

                                      My vote would be something like a yamaha thr10

                                      That and good plugs.. i had mine made at an audiologist and they go with me everywhere.. i also have tinnitus and damage, better late than never. These plugs lower the db without really losing audio quality
                                        Plugs are the way.
                                        Forget the pharmacy, shitty ear plugs are exactly that.

                                        Go to audiologist, have them take a casting of your ear canal and make you a set of attenuated ear plugs.
                                        These things are not only incredibly comfortable, but they also fine tune them to reduce particular frequencies (as was mentioned, particularly the high ones). It's almost like a having a small mixing desk in your head, that cuts any shrill shrieks, and allows the bass to pop through a bit more.

                                        I bought a set of Protec Ear moulded ear plugs around 8 years ago. Including my visit to the audiologist to take a casting of my ear canal, it cost me R750, I believe.

                                        Best R750 I've ever spent. I would recommend a pair to every single person on this forum.

                                        ...Just ask someone with permanent ear damage whether they'd pay R750 to have full hearing again...This is the kind of thing you need to buy before your ears get damaged, because once they are, there is no fixing them ☹

                                        http://www.protecear.co.za/