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My take on this is that the ZAR has lost 25 - 30% of its value.... so on a 1-to-1 comparison for say a middle road instrument you would be hard pressed to shelve out another R3k on what used to be a 10k price tag ..... Never mind Gibson who have unilateraly upped their prices by 30%

The demand for second hand instruments has rocketed and pricing have followed this trend ....just have a look at the used instrument stores springing up all over the place, e.g. Music Worx, The Gear Junkie etc ..... lead by the various online sites such as FB ......

Trades have taken over in a big way because price (paid and asked) falls by the wayside......

The power ultimately remains with the buyer, to pay the coin or to wait it out until "the right one" comes along

Peace.....
    A product is worth exactly as much as somebody is willing to pay for it. The seller asking a ridiculous price might have bought it at a ridiculous price as well, in which case the price probably would then seem fair to him/her. After all, if somebody was willing to pay that much once, why not again?

    What I'm in two minds about is whether I should just let these ads go past and not say anything about the ridiculous price or to warn potential buyers that the same can be had for much less. On the one hand I reckon if you get overcharged you deserve it and it isn't really my place - or anybody else's for that matter - to spoil a sellers ad. If he gets what he asked then I was wrong and if he doesn't it is up to him to drop his price. Unless it's a friend or somebody asked me for my opinion, this is what I'll do.
    But on the other hand I can't help but feel that if I can save somebody a few hard earned Rands by pointing out a ridiculous price to potential buyers, I should do it. I would have really loved it had somebody done so to me when I started out.
    But really, in the internet age there is no excuse for being taken in by a seller charging too much.
      chris77 wrote: A product is worth exactly as much as somebody is willing to pay for it. The seller asking a ridiculous price might have bought it at a ridiculous price as well, in which case the price probably would then seem fair to him/her. After all, if somebody was willing to pay that much once, why not again?

      What I'm in two minds about is whether I should just let these ads go past and not say anything about the ridiculous price or to warn potential buyers that the same can be had for much less. On the one hand I reckon if you get overcharged you deserve it and it isn't really my place - or anybody else's for that matter - to spoil a sellers ad. If he gets what he asked then I was wrong and if he doesn't it is up to him to drop his price. Unless it's a friend or somebody asked me for my opinion, this is what I'll do.
      But on the other hand I can't help but feel that if I can save somebody a few hard earned Rands by pointing out a ridiculous price to potential buyers, I should do it. I would have really loved it had somebody done so to me when I started out.
      But really, in the internet age there is no excuse for being taken in by a seller charging too much.
      +1
        chris77 wrote: A product is worth exactly as much as somebody is willing to pay for it. The seller asking a ridiculous price might have bought it at a ridiculous price as well, in which case the price probably would then seem fair to him/her. After all, if somebody was willing to pay that much once, why not again?

        What I'm in two minds about is whether I should just let these ads go past and not say anything about the ridiculous price or to warn potential buyers that the same can be had for much less. On the one hand I reckon if you get overcharged you deserve it and it isn't really my place - or anybody else's for that matter - to spoil a sellers ad. If he gets what he asked then I was wrong and if he doesn't it is up to him to drop his price. Unless it's a friend or somebody asked me for my opinion, this is what I'll do.
        But on the other hand I can't help but feel that if I can save somebody a few hard earned Rands by pointing out a ridiculous price to potential buyers, I should do it. I would have really loved it had somebody done so to me when I started out.
        But really, in the internet age there is no excuse for being taken in by a seller charging too much.
        I think Chris nailed it here. Problem is there is no set price for new gear. New sellers try and get as much as possible for their products and if you want a better price you need to haggle or shop around...I am a co-owner in a tyre shop and my staff gives their BEST price, I even work it out for them. If I catch them selling it for lower there is hell to pay. If that customer finds out you stiffed him, you won't see him again, and there is too much competition out there.

        Don't get me wrong there still is hagglers and I do sometimes lower the price, but then I'm moving into the 10% margin range...hoping to create secondary sales...suspension or alignment...

          chris77 wrote: But really, in the internet age there is no excuse for being taken in by a seller charging too much.
          +1000

          In the age of information and easily accessible at that, ignorance in my humble opinion is inexcusable, except for the impaired.
            well on the plus side this post has revealed (to me anyway)a cool place to look for used gear! the gear junkie...gonna check it out. ?
              Hi everyone. I am new on this forum.

              I have a 1982 Fender Strat made in USA at original Leo Fender Factory. Fender SA has valued it at $2000 which is about 23k.
              I have the hard case as well.

              I am wanting to sell it, but i don't want to get taken for a ride.

              Serial number is E204536.

              Any advice?

                There is absolutely nothing wrong with selling used gear for a profit. I have done many many 2nd hand sales where I sold gear for a profit recently. Ie: more than the price I payed for it brand new.

                The issue I have is that retail prices sky rocketed over the past few years but 2nd hand buyers expect to buy second hand gear at 2007 second hand prices. In my opinion 2nd hand prices should inflate in correspondence with the new retails prices to make trade fare.

                For example, if you ask any gear junkie out there what they will pay for a 2nd hand MIM Fender Tele or strat, the common benchmark price will be between R5000 - R5500. Fine, but that was 2010.
                Go to any music store now in 2015 and get quotes on a new MIM Fender. You will pay after store discount anything between R11000 to R18000 depending on spec.

                For instance I bought a MIM '72 Deluxe Tele in 2009 for R5500. I advertised it last year for R8500. A really interested buyer contacted but was not willing to pay the "high"price for a Mexican, according to him R6000 is a fare price for a MIM.

                I asked him to get a quote from a few stores for a brand new one. No one gave him anything less that R16000 after discount. He then gladly took mine for R8500 without even negotiating.
                Although I made a profit on a 2nd hand instrument, he also paid almost 50% less than he would have paid for it brand new. Win win for us both.

                The problem with most 2nd hand buyers is that they have no idea of current retail prices and they wanna pay 2nd hand prices that they were paying 10 years ago.
                  studmissile wrote: even pawn shop prices have sky rocketed!
                  It gets worse, I have seen some pawn shop prices that are equal or more than the retail (never mind cash price) of music stores.

                  Nuts I tell yah!

                  I'm sure as hell glad I have my GAS under control. Well sorta...

                    chris77 wrote: A product is worth exactly as much as somebody is willing to pay for it. The seller asking a ridiculous price might have bought it at a ridiculous price as well, in which case the price probably would then seem fair to him/her. After all, if somebody was willing to pay that much once, why not again?

                    What I'm in two minds about is whether I should just let these ads go past and not say anything about the ridiculous price or to warn potential buyers that the same can be had for much less. On the one hand I reckon if you get overcharged you deserve it and it isn't really my place - or anybody else's for that matter - to spoil a sellers ad. If he gets what he asked then I was wrong and if he doesn't it is up to him to drop his price. Unless it's a friend or somebody asked me for my opinion, this is what I'll do.
                    But on the other hand I can't help but feel that if I can save somebody a few hard earned Rands by pointing out a ridiculous price to potential buyers, I should do it. I would have really loved it had somebody done so to me when I started out.
                    But really, in the internet age there is no excuse for being taken in by a seller charging too much.
                    Would like to get advice on my USA 1982 Fender Strat that i am wanting to sell. If you or someone would be willing to help with some advice.
                      Here is some info i got from http://www.guitardaterproject.org/fender.aspx when looking up the serial number of my USA Fender Strat. It is not a reissue, and everything is still original and the guitar has incredible tone. I would not be selling it if i didn't need to, but my wife almost died and i have major medical bills to pay, but would still like to buy another decent guitar as well as pay off some of the debts.

                      Guitar Info
                      Your guitar was made at the Fullerton Plant (Fender - CBS Era), USA in the Year(s): 1982 - 1983

                      Fender: Fullerton

                      The Fullerton factory opened in 1946, Fullerton California with the first major electric solid body guitar production began in 1950 with the Broadcaster (later known as the Telecaster). Sold in 1965 to CBS who in 1985 sold Fender to a group of private investors the plant was not included in that sale and was subsequently closed.
                        I'm no Fender expert, but as I understand it, the early 80s are not remembered as any kind of "golden age" of fender products.
                        I would expect to see that guitar sell for between R10k and R15k depending on the condition.
                          Shibbibilybob wrote: I'm no Fender expert, but as I understand it, the early 80s are not remembered as any kind of "golden age" of fender products.
                          I would expect to see that guitar sell for between R10k and R15k depending on the condition.
                          Thanks for the reply.

                          I got the value of this guitar from Fender SA from one of their specialists. They said that the model i have and in the condition it is in, which is pretty amazing for a 30 yer old USA Fender made in the original Fender Factory, that the value is around $1500 - $2000 as is, because i also have the Fender USA Hard case with it. The case is missing the middle clip, but other than that, this guitar still has all the original parts and sounds so amazing.

                          So i don't think i could sell it for less than R17k as is.

                          I will put up a picture shortly so you can see it.

                            Chilli wrote:
                            Shibbibilybob wrote: I'm no Fender expert, but as I understand it, the early 80s are not remembered as any kind of "golden age" of fender products.
                            I would expect to see that guitar sell for between R10k and R15k depending on the condition.
                            Thanks for the reply.

                            I got the value of this guitar from Fender SA from one of their specialists. They said that the model i have and in the condition it is in, which is pretty amazing for a 30 yer old USA Fender made in the original Fender Factory, that the value is around $1500 - $2000 as is, because i also have the Fender USA Hard case with it. The case is missing the middle clip, but other than that, this guitar still has all the original parts and sounds so amazing.

                            So i don't think i could sell it for less than R17k as is.

                            I will put up a picture shortly so you can see it.

                            I think 17k could be at the upper region of what you are likely to get, but if that is your minimum you advertise it for more and leave yourself some wiggle room. If it sells great, if it doesn't you will know that the market isn't prepared to pay as much and might have to drop your price accordingly.
                            Also keep in mind that folks love bargains and whatever price you ask there will be folks making low ball offers and telling you how your price is crazy. (And if you come across as desperate to sell almost everybody who contacts you will chance their luck looking for a score). Don't be offended by them. Just stick to your guns and if they seem genuinely interested try and get them up to your minimum price and if you can't make a deal then so be it. Remember though that as with anything in life, if the price goes up the number of potential customers who can afford it goes down. So you might have to be prepared to sit on it for a while until you get your price. If a quick sale is what you're looking for then the opposite becomes true and the more you drop the price, the quicker you will probably sell it.

                            I'm not a Fender buff either, but I know that most of the bad rep about CBS Fenders are because of the corners they cut in the 70's to maximize profits. Sales suffered and in the early eighties they tried to turn it around by hirng Dan Smith and Bill Schultz. They suggested concentrating on quality and these Smith era Strats are reportedly very, very good instruments. The damage was however already done and despite the increase in quality sales didn't really jump much. CBS then went back to cutting even more corners to boost profits, which (suprise suprise) didn't really help their cause either. Fender only got back their reputation for consistent quality when Bill Schultz and his partners bought Fender back from CBS in the mid eighties and started a turnaround which saw them become the biggest guitar maker in the world again.

                            I googled it now and 82/83 appears to be right smack in the middle of when Smith and Schultz were were trying to boost sales by raising the quality again so your guitar should be a good one and worth the selling price you ask for it. The only way to find out however is to advertise it and see what the market is prepared to pay for it.

                            Good luck with the sale!
                              chris77 wrote:
                              Chilli wrote:
                              Shibbibilybob wrote: I'm no Fender expert, but as I understand it, the early 80s are not remembered as any kind of "golden age" of fender products.
                              I would expect to see that guitar sell for between R10k and R15k depending on the condition.
                              Thanks for the reply.

                              I got the value of this guitar from Fender SA from one of their specialists. They said that the model i have and in the condition it is in, which is pretty amazing for a 30 yer old USA Fender made in the original Fender Factory, that the value is around $1500 - $2000 as is, because i also have the Fender USA Hard case with it. The case is missing the middle clip, but other than that, this guitar still has all the original parts and sounds so amazing.

                              So i don't think i could sell it for less than R17k as is.

                              I will put up a picture shortly so you can see it.

                              I think 17k could be at the upper region of what you are likely to get, but if that is your minimum you advertise it for more and leave yourself some wiggle room. If it sells great, if it doesn't you will know that the market isn't prepared to pay as much and might have to drop your price accordingly.
                              Also keep in mind that folks love bargains and whatever price you ask there will be folks making low ball offers and telling you how your price is crazy. (And if you come across as desperate to sell almost everybody who contacts you will chance their luck looking for a score). Don't be offended by them. Just stick to your guns and if they seem genuinely interested try and get them up to your minimum price and if you can't make a deal then so be it. Remember though that as with anything in life, if the price goes up the number of potential customers who can afford it goes down. So you might have to be prepared to sit on it for a while until you get your price. If a quick sale is what you're looking for then the opposite becomes true and the more you drop the price, the quicker you will probably sell it.

                              I'm not a Fender buff either, but I know that most of the bad rep about CBS Fenders are because of the corners they cut in the 70's to maximize profits. Sales suffered and in the early eighties they tried to turn it around by hirng Dan Smith and Bill Schultz. They suggested concentrating on quality and these Smith era Strats are reportedly very, very good instruments. The damage was however already done and despite the increase in quality sales didn't really jump much. CBS then went back to cutting even more corners to boost profits, which (suprise suprise) didn't really help their cause either. Fender only got back their reputation for consistent quality when Bill Schultz and his partners bought Fender back from CBS in the mid eighties and started a turnaround which saw them become the biggest guitar maker in the world again.

                              I googled it now and 82/83 appears to be right smack in the middle of when Smith and Schultz were were trying to boost sales by raising the quality again so your guitar should be a good one and worth the selling price you ask for it. The only way to find out however is to advertise it and see what the market is prepared to pay for it.

                              Good luck with the sale!
                              Thanks for your reply chris77. I really do appreciate it.
                              I took the guitar to Paul Bothners and the guys there freaked out over how this guitar sounds. It really is a stunning guitar with amazing sound quality and i am glad that you have confirmed that this guitar is actually a very good guitar and not one of the bad makes.

                              I want to put a picture up, but i don't know how to. LOL Maybe you or someone could tell me how, then you could actually see the guitar.

                              I have actually got it up on Gumtree.

                              http://www.gumtree.co.za/a-musical-instruments/plumstead/1982-usa-fender-stratocaster-and-usa-hard-case/1001230264820910033475809

                              I have it up for 20K, but thats really just to keep the chancers and scammers away.

                              Thanks again for your advice and reply.
                              Awesome!

                                Yup, that looks like one of the Dan Smith Strats allright. Quite a looker as well... :yup: Good luck with the sale!
                                  Remember there is a buyer and a seller. A higher price will supposedly "rip off" the buyer. A lower price supposedly "rip off" the seller.
                                  Some threads moan about 2nd hand prices being too high.
                                  Others moan about buyers low balling.
                                  The real value od any deal is willing buyer / willing seller.
                                    2 months later
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