I'd be interested but I'll admit I have 0 knowledge of how to go about creating a website... I've used those online website builders but the result always ends up looking generic.

Chocklit_Thunda wrote: I'd be interested but I'll admit I have 0 knowledge of how to go about creating a website...

No problem. My job is to change that ?

Chocklit_Thunda wrote: I've used those online website builders but the result always ends up looking generic.

Was your biggest struggle trying to make your website look unique?

Was there anything else?

IMHO you don't need fancy tools or frameworks or whatnot to make quality websites. You need a good eye for aesthetics (hard to develop, comes with time) and a text editor and some working knowledge of design principles. Then you learn the basics of html and css (forget javascript at first).

Most importantly, you don't have to pay for stuff. Really. Open Source rocks harder than Angus here.

Here's a good place to start (for general programming too, not just web development)

http://www.codecademy.com/en/tracks/web

Once you understand how to hack at html and css, you then find an open source page template (html file and css file) and you hack it until it looks the way you want. Fancy sites like this forum is a different story. There it's best to pick whichever open source app you find easiest to work with and hack it until it does what you want.

If you don't know how to do the basics manually, no tool will help. Feel free to discuss if you think I'm wrong.

ez wrote: IMHO you don't need fancy tools or frameworks or whatnot to make quality websites. You need a good eye for aesthetics (hard to develop, comes with time) and a text editor and some working knowledge of design principles. Then you learn the basics of html and css (forget javascript at first).

Most importantly, you don't have to pay for stuff. Really.

It all depends on your goal.

If time is on your side and you don't mind spending the next few months or years learning a skill that does NOT move you forward as a musician or a band, then learning HTML and CSS is a great way forward.

(You can replace the "musician or band" part with any profession.)

I've been programming PHP for over 12 years. Learned HTML 15 years ago. When I write HTML, CSS or JS, I hand-code it. So I'm no stranger to any part of that, nor the value it adds to my websites.

But I've learned that it steals time away from running and growing my business. So I do less and less of it.

To me, quality NOW is more important than cheap LATER. So I pay a little extra to get better results sooner rather than later.

And that's as a coder. If I had no inclination towards coding, I wouldn't DREAM of learning it for something serious that I wanted to launch and grow.

So while you don't have to pay for stuff, it will DEFINITELY move you forward faster than not paying.

ez wrote: Open Source rocks harder than Angus here.

Fully agree!

Been a Linux user for the better part of 15 years. All my servers run it. My Desktop has been Linux for about the same amount of time. Every coding language I use and CMS I use is OpenSource. Love it to bits.

The websites I'll teach people how to make are built with WordPress as the base. It's awesome software. Super user-friendly and there's just TONS and TONS of info, plugins and themes out there.

It's a great base.

ez wrote: If you don't know how to do the basics manually, no tool will help.

You haven't used the good tools, then ?

I'd have agreed with you about 5 years ago but things have moved forward so quickly lately that the tools give me 90% of what I'm looking for. And when you're growing something, 90% today is better than 100% next week, next month, next year.

ez wrote: Feel free to discuss if you think I'm wrong.

Just to be clear, I DON'T think you're wrong. I think you're right. IF... making websites every day is your goal or you simply have a lot of time on your hands, then learning the basics is great.

However, if you want something quality up and running WITHOUT spending time learning coding and stuff that doesn't help your core focus, then it's a route doomed to failure.

The question isn't, "Can I learn to code", the question is, "SHOULD I learn to code." As a business owner, musician and marketer, I think your answer is no.

Horses for courses.

Yeah I see what you're saying. I myself use some tools to make my life slightly easier (stuff like Jekyll and github pages). However, using stuff like Wix or a Wordpress installation without actually knowing anything will result in something generic again. My point is, if you want to be able to make something unique and awesome (like for a band page) you need to have knowhow, and that needs to be learned. If you REALLY need a good page and need one soon, its better to pay a professional.

I hear you ez but my experience has been different.

WordPress + a premium theme + a logo designed professionally gets you really far.

There are new plugins these days that let you lay out entirely unique pages. I use those and would teach how to use those.

That said, if you have the bux to pay a professional, that's ALWAYS going to be the best way to go.

What I'm offering is for people in-between the 2 extremes. They don't mind spending money on a few good tools but they don't have R20k for a gorgeous websites by PROs.

im keen on learning angular js + node / node webkit
edit
oops didnt read everything properly

Driving traffic to my site and the dark art of SEO...

Giggsy wrote: Driving traffic to my site and the dark art of SEO...

What have you tried so far? What were your experiences with what you've tried?

Also, what if you could drive traffic to your website without SEO? Would that add value to you?

Also, if you have a website, mind including the link in your reply?

If you're shy, you can just email me: norio <at> guitarforum.co.za

Time as we all know is such a scarce resource. I'm pretty much fed up with googling and researching and watching vids on how to develop or maintain a functioning website, and a lot of the time, it's pretty much a mess of conflicting information.
Having said that, we have two word press sites that at the time, seemed to be the way to go. From what I understood back then, template sites at one stage were a bad idea (somehow it messed with crawlers) but the newer template sites like Wordpress did not hamper SEO. How much any of that is true, I don't know. Anyway, I hired someone to set up the sites, and do basic maintenance, and be available to sort out the odd problem. Results are inconsistent. The problem is I know next to nothing about any of this, I'm supposed to spend some time understanding Wordpress, but ja, my time is taken up by other business priorities.
Even now, there is some sort of glitch on the one site and we can't update anything (and waiting for it to be sorted between the person I pay to maintain it, and the hosting company), so in general, I find it all a huge pain.

So yes, if I can understand the fundamental basics of what is what, and do problem solving, and just keep the sites running smoothly, I'll be happy.
The one site seems to be fine, and is with another hosting company to the one that is giving issues, I'm not sure if that is the cause of the problems, but I'm looking into moving it sometime anyway.

Norio, these are the two sites:
ilsemoore.com (this is the one that is generally fine)

and

gingeralephotography.com (this one makes me want to pull my hair out)

So yes, I'll be keen to learn whatever you have to offer in this regard ?

Norio wrote: Also, if you have a website, mind including the link in your reply?

If you're shy, you can just email me: norio <at> guitarforum.co.za

Not at all - its www.africandesignmagazine.com - obviously the more visits to the website and more reads for the magazine the better it is for advertisers (and for us to attract further advertisers).

For now I've just been relying on the guy who designed the website and his expertise (SEO plugin for Wordpress was installed, I know that and a site map was submitted to Google)

We're pretty high on Google for a search for 'African design' (about 14th, second page) but higher up would be great

Sean wrote:Wordpress did not hamper SEO. How much any of that is true, I don't know.

WordPress can be great for SEO. Out the box it's pretty well set up. With 1-3 additional plugins, it's just about perfect.

But SEO does not stop at your website structure or website content.

It barely begins there.

The most important part of SEO is getting links and shares around the web. And that takes a LOT of work.

Which is why I no longer focus on SEO.

I mean you should make sure the content is great and well-researched.

You should make the website well-structured but as a long-term strategy, SEO will take a LOT of your time.

Sure there are blackhat methods to get quick gains but, just as with anything in life, quickly gained is quickly lost.

I speak from experience and frustration.

Sean wrote: Anyway, I hired someone to set up the sites, and do basic maintenance, and be available to sort out the odd problem. Results are inconsistent.

That comes down to experience. They might simply not know how to do what you need.

Sean wrote: The problem is I know next to nothing about any of this, I'm supposed to spend some time understanding Wordpress, but ja, my time is taken up by other business priorities.

If you're not getting the results you need, you either need to invest more time (learning how to run your website, or researching freelancers to help) or you need to invest more money (hiring more expensive developers or using more expensive tools).

Expensive doesn't always mean quality so a referral goes a long way.

Sean wrote: Even now, there is some sort of glitch on the one site and we can't update anything (and waiting for it to be sorted between the person I pay to maintain it, and the hosting company), so in general, I find it all a huge pain.

Care to go into detail here?

Sean wrote: So yes, if I can understand the fundamental basics of what is what, and do problem solving, and just keep the sites running smoothly, I'll be happy.

Fixing an existing website that you didn't build yourself, especially when you don't know much about websites, will probably give you more problems than solutions.

In this case, I would recommend you hire someone quality to fix the problem.

Find someone who charges well and who comes highly recommended. Don't skimp.

The problem will be solved in a day or 2 instead of a few months.

If you tell me more about the problem you're experiencing, I can try and advise you.

It MIGHT be something simple.

So feel free to reply here or PM me or email me.

Sean wrote:The one site seems to be fine, and is with another hosting company to the one that is giving issues, I'm not sure if that is the cause of the problems, but I'm looking into moving it sometime anyway.

Who are you using to host the sites right now?

Sean wrote: Norio, these are the two sites:
ilsemoore.com (this is the one that is generally fine)

and

gingeralephotography.com (this one makes me want to pull my hair out)

More details on why you wanna pull your hair out will help.

Sean wrote:So yes, I'll be keen to learn whatever you have to offer in this regard ?

Really glad to hear it.

To recap:

1. Fixing it yourself might cause you more headaches. I'd love to put you on my course but I don't want you to hate me ? First let's fix the issue.

2. Hiring someone more experienced to fix the issues is likely wise.

3. You're still welcome on my course when it launches but I really think that, if you join, you should build a new site. You will learn a ton and you won't have any past bugs on your sites stopping you from making progress.

Giggsy wrote: Not at all - its www.africandesignmagazine.com - obviously the more visits to the website and more reads for the magazine the better it is for advertisers (and for us to attract further advertisers).

For now I've just been relying on the guy who designed the website and his expertise (SEO plugin for Wordpress was installed, I know that and a site map was submitted to Google)

We're pretty high on Google for a search for 'African design' (about 14th, second page) but higher up would be great

If you run a magazine, you probably have writers on staff?

I could have a POTENT SEO strategy for you if you can get your writers to write for your website.

Reply to let me know.

Also, see my other comments regarding SEO:

Norio wrote:The most important part of SEO is getting links and shares around the web. And that takes a LOT of work.

Which is why I no longer focus on SEO.

I mean you should make sure the content is great and well-researched.

You should make the website well-structured but as a long-term strategy, SEO will take a LOT of your time.

Sure there are blackhat methods to get quick gains but, just as with anything in life, quickly gained is quickly lost.

What I'd suggest for you is a whole new website where you SELL the advertising.

You could definitely follow my course for that.

Then, once you have a website focused on selling the advertising, I'd suggest advertising on Facebook and AdWords to attract advertisers.

They're both a bit complicated but I can show you the basics and then recommend you some courses that will take you from beginner to advanced.

To give you an idea, I currently have a campaign running on Facebook where I'm consistently doubling my money.

I put $100 in, I get $200 out.

And that's just promoting someone else's product.

If I had my own products in that niche, I could be making a lot more.

Norio wrote:
1. Fixing it yourself might cause you more headaches. I'd love to put you on my course but I don't want you to hate me ? First let's fix the issue.

2. Hiring someone more experienced to fix the issues is likely wise.

3. You're still welcome on my course when it launches but I really think that, if you join, you should build a new site. You will learn a ton and you won't have any past bugs on your sites stopping you from making progress.

Yeah, I've no issue finding someone to manage the sites for me, but finding the right someone is also a challenge. I had meetings with a couple of companies and free lancers, and ended up with someone who I think is not a good fit.

I'll pm you Norio, I'll still do the course though, I'm sure it'll be very helpful. I'll build a dummy site for the practice. Thanks for the response and advice ?

Sean wrote: I'll pm you Norio, I'll still do the course though, I'm sure it'll be very helpful. I'll build a dummy site for the practice. Thanks for the response and advice ?

My pleasure and please email me instead: norio <at> guitarforum.co.za

ez wrote: Really. Open Source rocks harder than Angus here.

.........NOTHING ROCKS HARDER THAN ANGUS.