Realistic strings...

Nitebob

Looking at possibly upgrading my keyboard to (hopefully) a full 88 key with weighted GHS keys. Was looking at a Yammy but their string quality sux something aweful. Has that nasty synth vibrato. Budget will also not allow for a mini grand. Any suggestions? Want a good Piano, strings, maybe bass sounds.

AlanRatcliffe

I've also been looking lately. Yammy has more in the lower price ranges (P105, etc), But unfortunately my wife doesn't like Yamaha's keyboard action. Also I generally find that the Roland piano sounds work better in a mix, especially live.

So it's the Roland RD Stage pianos for me. If you can live with a 64 key board, there's the RD-64 - has proper hammer action and is nicely portable, but obviously has the shorter beyboard. For a Full 88 key, the RD-400 is the first step, but you can get good deals on the (just) discontinued RD-300NX and RD-700NX. Another option is to get an F-20 (more of a home piano than the road-ready and robust RDs) with a folding stand.

Nitebob

Recorded my first Piano piece on my E203, but because it's a keyboard you don't really get the expression of touch sensitivity. Could go for 64 key, but I know I'll be upgrading soon then, just opens me up to gas...hehe

Wanted to add some strings to a recording and it has this horrible vibrato in all the string settings....ughh. Since I'm not really a gigger F20 could work as well...

Think I need to visit Bothners or Marshall

AlanRatcliffe

Nitebob wrote: Think I need to visit Bothners or Marshall

Go to both. Bothners'll push you to Roland, Marshall will push you to Yamaha.

For recording, the synth doesn't matter - more than enough affordable pianos, synths, strings, etc. A decent controller is cheaper than a keyboard (but not practical live unless you shell out for a hardware synth too). Get Kontakt and even before you invest in 3rd party samples, you have a pretty good library on hand for most purposes. As discussed before, if you record the MIDI, your friendly, helpful mix engineer can play around with changing sounds. ?

Gearhead

Eh... What's wrong with Motif 8, for instance an ES second hand or so?

AlanRatcliffe

For a lot of players - and my wife is one of them - the action is all-important. Only proper, full-weighted keys and hammer action will do.

Nitebob

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
Nitebob wrote: Think I need to visit Bothners or Marshall
Go to both. Bothners'll push you to Roland, Marshall will push you to Yamaha.

For recording, the synth doesn't matter - more than enough affordable pianos, synths, strings, etc. A decent controller is cheaper than a keyboard (but not practical live unless you shell out for a hardware synth too). Get Kontakt and even before you invest in 3rd party samples, you have a pretty good library on hand for most purposes. As discussed before, if you record the MIDI, your friendly, helpful mix engineer can play around with changing sounds. ?

My soundguy is pretty awesome! I have a lot of studying up to do on midi though! Used it in ableton and it's pretty easy to manipulate, exporting and such, I'll have to study up on... ?

Like for the life of me I don't understand why my keyboard has a MIDI IN jack :-/ MIDI OUT I get...

AlanRatcliffe

Nitebob wrote: Like for the life of me I don't understand why my keyboard has a MIDI IN jack

So you can use the keyboard as an external hardware synth module. Not as crucial now we have softsynths.

Also for those bits of gear that have software editors, bi-directional communication is a must...

DAWS these days are basically combined audio recorders, sequencers, FX processors, synths, samplers and mixers and all the communication and routing happens automatically ITB (inside the box). These things all used to be handled by separate hardware devices and MIDI was the main way of they all talked to each other (plus something called SMTPE timecode).

You can also use a MIDI sequencer to play back parts - most backtracks used to be MIDI only and most keyboards are 16-part multitimbral. Largely replaced by audio backtracks these days.

Nitebob

Okay, so I got Kontakt 5....and the Roxio package, bought a USB interface, but have no idea how to access the things from Reaper or even Kontakt 5 itself, any links where I can educate myself?

AlanRatcliffe

Reaper documentation or forums should tell you how to load a VSTi (instrument). Then follow instructions in the Kontakt manual (which I don't think I've ever even opened - Coming from Gigasampler, I found it very intuitive):

Manual:
http://www.native-instruments.com/fileadmin/ni_media/downloads/manuals/Kontakt_5_Application_Reference_English.zip

Here's the Quickstart guide:
http://www.native-instruments.com/index.php?id=kontusersguide_us

What I would say is start with the standalone: set MIDI input source and audio output. Load a sound into Kontakt, make sure its MIDI channel corresponds to your source and you should be away...

Nitebob

Okay....checked out the quick start guide, but there is no instruments and according to the website it is "production ready" ???

I can tell I'm gonna end up hiring the philharmonic orchestra... :'(

AlanRatcliffe

From within Kontakt, browse to your factory library folder and select any .nki file.

Malkav

Not exactly what you're looking for as an answer, but for life like piano sounds absolutely no keyboard manufacturer or other VST comes close to the sound Pianoteq delivers.

doc-phil

In Reaper go to Insert -> New instrument track (or whatever the specific wording is, I can't remember).

You will then be taken to the list of VSTi's in your arsenal. Select Kontakt with however many outs you want (think the choice is 8, 16 or 64) then select okay. Click yes when asked if you want Reaper to automatically set up your tracks.

Kontakt should automatically scan your library (provided your libraries are in the correct directory) and will add them within Kontakt. If not, you can manually find them in windows explorer and drag and drop the .nki file into Kontakt.

Reaper should automatically set the routing for all the tracks and you should get sound coming from your first track with whatever first instrument you load. Routing Kontakt into Reaper for running multiple instruments simultaneously or doing a multi-out on one patch is not something I am familiar with, but I am sure there are tutorials on YouTube.

Nitebob

I don't see any instruments there except the three options standard with reaper (cuckos synth etc)

Did a search and couldn't find any NKL files... ???

Thats after I downloaded twice...

@Chad...the piano sound I'm not too unhappy with, it's more the strings on the Yammie that sound like a bee in a coke bottle...

Off topic, but I test drove the Yammie P35...quite the entry level....strings on that is a VAST improvement....but I have to say @Alan...I can see why the missus doesn't like the action...it'll take quite a bit of getting used to...

NB

doc-phil

Reaper also needs to know where to search for your plugins, so make sure you have the directory added under Reaper preferences.

Nitebob

doc-phil wrote: Reaper also needs to know where to search for your plugins, so make sure you have the directory added under Reaper preferences.

I don't even know where to find them.... :'(

Mixerboy

Here's how I load instruments in Reaper:

Open Reaper............. ???

Hit Shit+F to open the FX Browser window (I have the Docker open on my second screen with the Mixer tab, FX Browser tab, Media Explorer tab etc etc)

At the top left of the FX Browser window, under "All Plugins", you should see VSTi, click on it

Then just click and drag Kontakt (or anything else in there to the main track panel on the left

A window will pop up asking if you want multi outputs or not, either click yes or no if you do

That's pretty much about it, it should already be hooked up to any midi controller you have set up

So it's basically click-n-drag

AlanRatcliffe

Firstly, regardless of your VST directory settings in Reaper (which do need sorting out for you to use VSTis in Reaper), If Kontakt can't find it's own library files, you won't get anywhere. That's why I said open the standalone version of Kontakt first. One problem at a time...

Nitebob wrote: Did a search and couldn't find any NKL files... ???

nki, not nkL...

Thats after I downloaded twice...
The download should include about 40GB of library files. Does that sound right? Otherwise, maybe you have a version sans library? The Free Kontakt player, you download the player and the library separately. The full version should install the libraries automatically. If you check the settings in Kontakt , you should see where it looks for the library files. Check in that library folder on your computer to make sure the files are there. If not, find where they are and browse to that folder within Kontakt to set the preferences correctly.

Off topic, but I test drove the Yammie P35...quite the entry level....strings on that is a VAST improvement....but I have to say @Alan...I can see why the missus doesn't like the action...it'll take quite a bit of getting used to...

Any piano action will feel very different to you after playing synth keys. It's like picking up an acoustic with medium gauge strings after learning to play on an electric with .009s. Doesn't take too long to get used to it though. Pretty soon, you'll prefer the weight.

But to the piano-trained player there are differences in feel between different makes of piano too. Piano action is a fairly complex mechanical structure and different companies approach it differently. If you learn on one type of action, another will feel subtly "wrong" - that's my wife's problem.

Nitebob

Hi Alan...think the download might be the issue...it was a 500 odd meg zip download...

According to them the library is a separate file also around 500 meg...

I opened the Kontakt player itself and can't find anything there either....

Did another search for nki files ( :-[)...nada

Only other thing about the Yammie is no pitch bender or shifter....will a guitar pedal work...hehe