Bedroom Tone: Advice on Audio Interface, DAW's etc.

Charlie4

I've been looking at various options in terms of having good tone at bedroom levels. It seems the best conclusion is Guitar Rig 5 Pro or similar. I am not at all clued up on what's needed but I do know I need a few things:

- Audio Interface
- Decent'ish DAW
- Headphones/monitors etc.

My budget in total is probably about 5k-7k, depending.

Please share your wisdom and help me find great bedroom tone. ?

AlanRatcliffe

That's pretty much it. You don't need a DAW for Guitar Rig or Amplitude if you are not recording - both come with standalone versions and they will run with lower resource requirements than loading a full-blown DAW. Guitar Rig even has two tape decks built in so you can do basic recording within the program (as well as play back basic backing tracks or even record a part and loop it).

Some (Studio Devil, IIRC, et. al.) work as VST plugins only and for those you'll need a DAW or something called a plugin host. I haven't looked at hosts in a while, but check out Brainspawn Forte Ensemble, Virtual Mixing Console, Cantabile Performer and Steinberg V-Stack - all of which enable you to use VST instruments and plugins in a playing setup.

Interfaces... (Ahem...) I have a Rig Kontrol 3 lurking that I tried to sell for a while and then tossed in my cupboard. Otherwise, if you want to use mics too, the usual suspects (the Scarlet range) from Focusrite are always to be recommended.

Another option is to get a desktop modeller like a POD, Boss GT, Vox Tonelab and drive some monitors or headphones with it - still a great practice/bedroom studio approach and also lets you plug into any full range system like a PA or full range monitor, so you can play at volume with others.

psyx

Its probably not what you asked, but there are some nice new amps with headphone jacks like the HnK tubemeister and the new Peavey Valvekings...

Charlie4

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: That's pretty much it. You don't need a DAW for Guitar Rig or Amplitude if you are not recording - both come with standalone versions and they will run with lower resource requirements than loading a full-blown DAW. Guitar Rig even has two tape decks built in so you can do basic recording within the program (as well as play back basic backing tracks or even record a part and loop it).

Some (Studio Devil, IIRC, et. al.) work as VST plugins only and for those you'll need a DAW or something called a plugin host. I haven't looked at hosts in a while, but check out Brainspawn Forte Ensemble, Virtual Mixing Console, Cantabile Performer and Steinberg V-Stack - all of which enable you to use VST instruments and plugins in a playing setup.

Interfaces... (Ahem...) I have a Rig Kontrol 3 lurking that I tried to sell for a while and then tossed in my cupboard. Otherwise, if you want to use mics too, the usual suspects (the Scarlet range) from Focusrite are always to be recommended.

Another option is to get a desktop modeller like a POD, Boss GT, Vox Tonelab and drive some monitors or headphones with it - still a great practice/bedroom studio approach and also lets you plug into any full range system like a PA or full range monitor, so you can play at volume with others.

A simple audio interface will probably be a bit cheaper, but no mic. I guess it comes down to the coin. Mic inputs are very handy indeed. I do have a Tonelab LE and while it is nice for a few things, not exactly the sound I'm looking for. I'm looking for a tweed clean and some high gain for the occasional riffing. Quality and versatility is what's key.
Integrating into a DAW is probably also a feature. I will investigate the Scarlet and maybe get something like Cubase or similar for recording purposes.

psyx wrote: Its probably not what you asked, but there are some nice new amps with headphone jacks like the HnK tubemeister and the new Peavey Valvekings...

I had a Valveking a while back, it had potential with the right speaker pairing, boost pedal, guitar etc. The guitar I had did not pair too well with that amp, too much bass imo. However...Cooking tubes and not using them is just not worth it imo. At this stage my needs are low volume. Guitar Rig looks like tons of fun.

Anyone used it before?

AlanRatcliffe

Charlie4 wrote: Guitar Rig looks like tons of fun. Anyone used it before?

Extensively. Gigged with it for a while and still use it for recording when I want to reamp or do something complicated. You need to have the tweaker mindset and it doesn't feel quite right, unlike the latest gen modellers or the Eleven Rack I'm using now.

Where it really comes into its own is with complicated signal paths - you can set up parallel complex chains of effects amps and speakers until your computer runs out of steam and falls over. You can also set up signal chains that would be impossible in the real world. Lotsa fun.

doc-phil

Charlie4 wrote: I'm looking for a tweed clean and some high gain for the occasional riffing. Quality and versatility is what's key.
Integrating into a DAW is probably also a feature. I will investigate the Scarlet and maybe get something like Cubase or similar for recording purposes.

http://www.igniteamps.com/en/audio-plug-ins

http://lepouplugins.blogspot.com/

http://www.tseaudio.com/

Before spending loot on Guitar Rig, check out the free amp sims. The ignite pre-amps are super versatile, three channels going from glassy clean to absolute hellfire.

If I were you I'd buy Reaper over Cubase, but that's just me.

bindog

I just went with the Focusrite 2i4 and been messing around with reaper, seems pretty good and easy to use..

I've never used a DAW before a week ago

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bindog

Oh and the Scarlett kicks ass.. Portable, powerful, good clean signals coming in... I am impressed...

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Charlie4

bindog wrote: Oh and the Scarlett kicks ass.. Portable, powerful, good clean signals coming in... I am impressed...
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I have another interface pending, otherwise the Scarlet is definitely on the cards.

ryanguit

Not sure if anyone said this or something similar, so just adding that you should use a buffer before your soundcard to see if the cards input has a high enough impedance. A simple test, not useful to compare buffers, but test for checking if the soundcard has a TRUE guitar input impedance.

plug guitar into soundcard, record something on track 1.

plug guitar into boss pedal (any buffered bypass will do) boss pedal should have a battery or power supply but be "off" or bypassed. record similar riff on track 2.

compare the recordings.
if the boss pedal track sounds clearer or better, then your card needs a buffer in front.

another test is if the volume pot on your guitar acts weirdly or unnatural without a boss pedal I front.

just because it needs a buffer has zero relation to whether the card is good or bad. cheers

AlanRatcliffe

...or just check the specs to see if it has an instrument input with an input impedance of 1 MOhm or greater.

ryanguit

Yes Alan you are completely right (i read manuals).

Just adding that if you limit your choices to only those with "guitar inputs" with 1M+ inputs (esp 2nd hand), then you could spend a bit more coin for very little difference. Especially if someone else reads this thread and has an older card already that may have instrument inputs and not bother to look for a manual to see why all their VST's sound like mud or an interface pops up for cheap but doesn't have a guitar input, so double the money spent instead of just putting a boss pedal in front (even the tube die hards of us have
one lying around).

All of the above still assumes you aren't using a truly dodgy R50 jobbie, or the internal mic input (obvious?) but even then the improvement is markable with a buffer.

exsanguinator

Dunno what style of music you're into,but more importantly,remember....what goes in the bedroom,stays in the bedroom.
Don't try taking your sound to the stage.

Charlie4

So I ordered a Focusrite Scarlet 2i4 which adds a bit more features for a bit more coin. The midi input might come in handy.
The next step is a decent mic, new or used for about 1-2k so please recommend a good mic I should look out for. At this stage I'l use it for vocals only but versatility is important on a budget imo.
Any comments on the Rodes NTA1?

Charlie4

exsanguinator wrote: Dunno what style of music you're into,but more importantly,remember....what goes in the bedroom,stays in the bedroom.
Don't try taking your sound to the stage.

Right now the stage is not on my mind. I've spoken to Allan regarding using Guitar Rig in a live situation, however laptops are not robust equipment. When I'm ready to climb onto that horse only real tube goodness will do.

AlanRatcliffe

The NT1-A is a great first studio condenser. It's a little bright, so can make vocals sibilant if you aren't careful, but it gives pretty good results on a wide range of instruments.

bindog

I picked up an AKG 420 for my home setup, I'm very happy with it on vocals and acoustic(I don't know much though) ... Worth considering if you can find one second hand I reckon

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doc-phil

I bought myself my first mic the other day, a trusty SM57 second hand for a grand. I feel that's a good deal since I have been quoted anything from R1800 - R2800 for a new one. Hoping the courier delivers today and I can get experimenting on recording a mic'd up amp, which I am ashamed to say I have never done before.

Charlie4

How bout an SM58? I know it is very similar to the SM57 with slightly different frequencies. Removing the pop cap makes it an SM57 correct? Good'ish for vocals and instruments.

Correct?

Charlie4

So after a botched amp build I had some cash which I used for something else: Native Instruments Komplete 9.
8)
Guitar Rig 5 Pro is 2k and Komplete 9 is 4k. What you get for 2k more is an absolute no-brainer. It's on special btw. I was fortunate enough that payment did not go through today for Guitar Rig. Tomorrow I score a very good deal. ?