I never give money to anybody - beggars, car guards, charity organizations, rhinos etc....they can all go F**k themselves. I have my own 2 kids and every cent I give away to somebody, I could have spent on them. My kids are my problem - other kids are not my problem.
African kid standing at the traffic light begging...
When I moved here from London in December 1999 I've got to admit I was a bleeding heart liberal when it came to traffic light/robot begging, and I can only say that in the 14 and a bit years since I'm now the polar opposite, I'm a firm believer in the "tough love" doctrine and the only thing you'll see me give to beggars is food.
Put simply: if you pay people money to be poor and to loiter around at traffic lights then you'll have more poor people loitering around at traffic lights. You're not helping them. I'm not going to dispute that there are some genuinely needy poor who beg on our roads but my experiences on this matter since moving here but when you consider the fact that the vast majority of beggars I see in Gauteng are seemingly fit and healthy young adults who seem to think they're providing a "value add" by standing around with a plastic bag to collect the rubbish that I happen to NOT keep in my car, I'm afraid I have no pity whatsoever. I'm sorry to have to say it but, even in Africa, if you make it to adulthood without learning a solitary single marketable skill then you are certainly not my problem.
My local shopping centre is Broadacres near Fourways and all day every day there's a gang of young adult Africans, mid-to-late teens is my guess, wearing Nike, Adidas, Tommy Hillfiger (for mercy's sakes!!!) and other "label" clothes. They walk the road on the way out with their plastic bags begging, and I've seen them get quite aggressive with female drivers and I have no qualms whatsoever when they get to my window in telling them to "f*ck off and get a job!". They've even got a "pimp" who sits there listening to his iPod, dressed like an L.A. rapper with a ludicrously huge base-ball cap on his head, and I have seen them give him money on more than a couple of occasions.
On the junction of Fourways Boulevard and Cedar Road a young African lady, at first I thought she was a child but it turns out she's just very short and petite, she's been there for years, dresses in rags and wails for help: she's dropped off in a white Toyota combi every morning, and collected again every evening, except of course when it's raining when I assume her apparent poverty becomes significantly less wail-worthy. I've seen it more times than I can count.
Ok so in this post I'm coming across like some mean, hard-hearted son-of-a-b!tch. As I've already said, there can be no doubt that there are genuinely needy people, but if you consider for just a moment the scale of the problem and how the vast majority are not, evidently, helpless orphaned infants (and I do appreciate it's next to impossible to truly know what the "back-story" of each case is), my view plain and simple is that if you give them money you're very actually part of the problem, you're encouraging it
If you want to help the poor donate money, clothes, food or best of all your time to a properly structured organisation/charity, it is the ONLY way: if anything, handing out loose change at the traffic lights means it's money that doesn't get effectively used in alleviating poverty, it's money wasted.
Put simply: if you pay people money to be poor and to loiter around at traffic lights then you'll have more poor people loitering around at traffic lights. You're not helping them. I'm not going to dispute that there are some genuinely needy poor who beg on our roads but my experiences on this matter since moving here but when you consider the fact that the vast majority of beggars I see in Gauteng are seemingly fit and healthy young adults who seem to think they're providing a "value add" by standing around with a plastic bag to collect the rubbish that I happen to NOT keep in my car, I'm afraid I have no pity whatsoever. I'm sorry to have to say it but, even in Africa, if you make it to adulthood without learning a solitary single marketable skill then you are certainly not my problem.
My local shopping centre is Broadacres near Fourways and all day every day there's a gang of young adult Africans, mid-to-late teens is my guess, wearing Nike, Adidas, Tommy Hillfiger (for mercy's sakes!!!) and other "label" clothes. They walk the road on the way out with their plastic bags begging, and I've seen them get quite aggressive with female drivers and I have no qualms whatsoever when they get to my window in telling them to "f*ck off and get a job!". They've even got a "pimp" who sits there listening to his iPod, dressed like an L.A. rapper with a ludicrously huge base-ball cap on his head, and I have seen them give him money on more than a couple of occasions.
On the junction of Fourways Boulevard and Cedar Road a young African lady, at first I thought she was a child but it turns out she's just very short and petite, she's been there for years, dresses in rags and wails for help: she's dropped off in a white Toyota combi every morning, and collected again every evening, except of course when it's raining when I assume her apparent poverty becomes significantly less wail-worthy. I've seen it more times than I can count.
Ok so in this post I'm coming across like some mean, hard-hearted son-of-a-b!tch. As I've already said, there can be no doubt that there are genuinely needy people, but if you consider for just a moment the scale of the problem and how the vast majority are not, evidently, helpless orphaned infants (and I do appreciate it's next to impossible to truly know what the "back-story" of each case is), my view plain and simple is that if you give them money you're very actually part of the problem, you're encouraging it
If you want to help the poor donate money, clothes, food or best of all your time to a properly structured organisation/charity, it is the ONLY way: if anything, handing out loose change at the traffic lights means it's money that doesn't get effectively used in alleviating poverty, it's money wasted.
Lol, don't get me started on car guards... if at least they ASKED if I wanted their help before becoming the only obstacle behind my car as I reverse then I wouldn't mind, but they don't... I even intentionally park miles away from the shops where there's no other cars and the particularly militant ones still manage to appear out of no where to force their "help" onto me. Besides, the shopping centres that put them in their high-visibility clothing are surely paying them?Arno West wrote: I never give money to anybody - beggars, car guards, charity organizations, rhinos etc....they can all go F**k themselves. I have my own 2 kids and every cent I give away to somebody, I could have spent on them. My kids are my problem - other kids are not my problem.
There, you see I said don't get me started and then I went ahead anyway!
I agree with you though, it's about taking responsibility like any reasonable adult. I take pride in the fact that I am a fully signed up member of civic society and I'm a burden on precisely nobody: I pay my taxes, the company I founded provides employment as do I in my personal capacity: this is what the saying "charity starts at home" means, take care of you and your's first and foremost!
Ha ha! I do think that's a bit harsh although I fully agree on the car guards.Arno West wrote: I never give money to anybody - beggars, car guards, charity organizations, rhinos etc....they can all go F**k themselves. I have my own 2 kids and every cent I give away to somebody, I could have spent on them. My kids are my problem - other kids are not my problem.
This sums it up PUR-fect-ly. :roflmao:
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An adult can not be everybody's parent, and you are very fortunate to have children to look after. Guilt and charity is marketable, and that's why we have beggars. Think of the them more like entrepreneurs is all I'm saying, most marketing is not far off from what they're doing, and they're not even poor.
There's a chap who begs on the corner of of Keurboom & Milner Rd in Cape Town near the "choo choo park".
Seriously handicapped and staggers around with a tin to collect money.
Until one day spotted him as he was busy "going off duty".
And he can suddenly walk and talk just fine.
Oscar winning performance.
Had me foxed for a long time.
In Cape Town you can buy Haven Night Shelter vouchers which give the recipient a meal and a bed for the night.
Interesting to see the response some times when you offer a voucher instead of money to a supposedly starving person who needs food and a bed.
Can become quite hostile and abusive.
How can you tell the con artists from the real causes?
Claremont has a shop called Coats for Africa.
Sell 2nd hand coats obtained from Europe & Asia.
120 ront buys you a perfect condition coat that's 3k retail.
And they are really cool coats if you can get past the 2nd hand bit.
Which I can.
So I buy myself a coat for the winter.
And donate it to a cold person on the street before buying the next one.
Even if they are a con artist, they are at least warm the day they get the coat.
Even if they sell it, someone gets warm from it.
I do still give sporadically & randomly.
But it is confusing and I don't have a well established rule.
Seriously handicapped and staggers around with a tin to collect money.
Until one day spotted him as he was busy "going off duty".
And he can suddenly walk and talk just fine.
Oscar winning performance.
Had me foxed for a long time.
In Cape Town you can buy Haven Night Shelter vouchers which give the recipient a meal and a bed for the night.
Interesting to see the response some times when you offer a voucher instead of money to a supposedly starving person who needs food and a bed.
Can become quite hostile and abusive.
How can you tell the con artists from the real causes?
Claremont has a shop called Coats for Africa.
Sell 2nd hand coats obtained from Europe & Asia.
120 ront buys you a perfect condition coat that's 3k retail.
And they are really cool coats if you can get past the 2nd hand bit.
Which I can.
So I buy myself a coat for the winter.
And donate it to a cold person on the street before buying the next one.
Even if they are a con artist, they are at least warm the day they get the coat.
Even if they sell it, someone gets warm from it.
I do still give sporadically & randomly.
But it is confusing and I don't have a well established rule.
I honestly don't get people giving examples of the con-artists, or the ungrateful, or the undeserving or whatever. So that means they're ALL con-artists, they're ALL ungrateful. Yes, justifies not helping anyone then, ever.
I find it hard to have a rule for give/don't give, and I feel unable to give direction to others as to what to do. However, I to try to remember that every person that I see at a street corner IS a person and I don't think it does any harm to act accordingly. If I don't give I still acknowledge them and try to remember my manners. I'll nod in their direction and clearly mouth "nothing, sorry " or something similar. I don't run into aggressive beggars.
I do give money when I give, and for the same reason I pay my gardener in money rather than goods in lieu of money (as another person he works for does): Money gives people choices. I don't concern myself with what they might do with the money, just like my employer doesn't tell me what to do with my salary.
I do give money when I give, and for the same reason I pay my gardener in money rather than goods in lieu of money (as another person he works for does): Money gives people choices. I don't concern myself with what they might do with the money, just like my employer doesn't tell me what to do with my salary.
I give to people begging and I dont give to people begging. When I feel like it I give and when I dont feel like it, I dont give. My conscience is inconsistent in this regard. To myself, I have tried rationalizing with reason why I dont give when I dont give. I try to not do that anymore - it's embarrassing. When I see animals in distress or need, I feel far more responsible to be involved. When I see humans involved with the collection of money to improve the plight of animals or any particular species thereof (including the one we are members of), I am skeptical. People and money just dont go well together.
A few winters ago there was a street walker, with an old blanket wrapped around him, in the Marine Circle area Blouberg. I brought him some warm jackets, jerseys and beanies.
A few days later I saw him in his old wrap around blanket again.
A few days later I saw him in his old wrap around blanket again.
Sean - the point made here is not that you shouldn't give because some beggars are con artists. The point is that giving money to a beggar just feeds the habit of begging, and insures that that person will always be a beggar. Giving money to a charity that helps people get back on their feet seems like a far better option to me.
I'm talking about the general case - obviously there are unique situations where it's obvious that someone needs some immediate help.
X-rated Bob makes a good point about acknowledging people. I do the same. If someone approaches me, I will look them in the eye and greet them, hear what they have to say - and when it turns out that they're begging, I'll politely tell them "sorry". Many appreciate this, while some try to take advantage.
Personally, I will ALWAYS give to a car guard (like it or not, it's often a necessary service - they're not beggars), I will SOMETIMES give to a beggar posing as a car guard (but rather a loaf of bread than money), but I will NEVER give to someone standing at a robot, as they're just creating a dangerous situation and I won't be a part of keeping them there.
I'm talking about the general case - obviously there are unique situations where it's obvious that someone needs some immediate help.
X-rated Bob makes a good point about acknowledging people. I do the same. If someone approaches me, I will look them in the eye and greet them, hear what they have to say - and when it turns out that they're begging, I'll politely tell them "sorry". Many appreciate this, while some try to take advantage.
Personally, I will ALWAYS give to a car guard (like it or not, it's often a necessary service - they're not beggars), I will SOMETIMES give to a beggar posing as a car guard (but rather a loaf of bread than money), but I will NEVER give to someone standing at a robot, as they're just creating a dangerous situation and I won't be a part of keeping them there.
My thoughts exactly...well said.Sean wrote: I honestly don't get people giving examples of the con-artists, or the ungrateful, or the undeserving or whatever. So that means they're ALL con-artists, they're ALL ungrateful. Yes, justifies not helping anyone then, ever.
I don't see how not giving money ensures that he won't stay a beggar.ParadoximA wrote: Sean - the point made here is not that you shouldn't give because some beggars are con artists. The point is that giving money to a beggar just feeds the habit of begging, and insures that that person will always be a beggar.
On the car guard topic. I knew a guy from Congo. Went to church with me. He was a car guard. He worked for a guy who had the "contract" to do guarding in a certain shopping center's parking lot. The congolese was picked up every morning and dropped at the lot and given a bib....at the end of the day, he had to pay R45 for the position and transportation home... who is the conman here?
I've seen people begging, I've seen them later at a car drinking beer...bothered me slightly, but just as I know Karma will get me for ignoring another person in need, so I know it will get them for pretending to be one.
In even simpler terms then - I don't have an infinite amount of money to give away - so since I can only give a finite amount, why not rather put those Rands into a system that could work, rather than a system that definitely doesn't. Is all I'm sayin'.Nitebob wrote: I don't see how not giving money ensures that he won't stay a beggar.
EDIT -
"system that could work" - ie CHARITY that HELPS PEOPLE.
"system that definitely doesn't" - ie STREET BEGGING.
The point is, the only reason that beggar is standing there begging is because it's profitable. If nobody gave them money, they wouldn't stand there, I guarantee it.ParadoximA wrote:In even simpler terms then - I don't have an infinite amount of money to give away - so since I can only give a finite amount, why not rather put those Rands into a system that could work, rather than a system that definitely doesn't. Is all I'm sayin'.Nitebob wrote: I don't see how not giving money ensures that he won't stay a beggar.
Ja, maybe they'll just go away and die somewhere. I dont know. I'm not much of a giver but i dont know how they got into the situation and I dont know why they cant or wont get away from it. So, I prefer to not judge them but I quite readily judge myself to see what I am or arent comfortable with.
I know some very poor guitarists who go on stage and beg for munny to buy new strings... 
8 days later
But at least they aren't standing at the robot doing nothing ?DaFiz wrote: I know some very poor guitarists who go on stage and beg for munny to buy new strings...