Bass in fifths?

peterleroux

I've moved back to four string after playing a five string bass for years, and I am enjoying the simplicity of playing The Way Leo Intended. Playing in a church worship team, though, I'm often playing parts written for 5 string, and in particular I miss the low D and Eb. I've tried drop D tuning in the past, but last night at rehearsal I tuned the E string down to D, and the D string up to E, giving me three strings in fifths intervals (i ignored the skinny string because I never use it, and tuning a G up to B is asking for trouble). This is after reading about a number of double bassists who tune in 5ths and reading this thread.

Well. It was quite a workout playing some basslines (lots of shifting) and quite a bit of thinking to remember where the notes are, but it was a lot of fun. The low D sounds great, and the sound of the whole instrument seemed better to me. I've read about this 'openness' of sound in articles about fifths tunings, but I was skeptical. It really does sound better to me.

Of course, after I finished playing, I tuned my strings back to standard tuning to even out the tension on the neck.

Two questions:
- Anyone else messed around with fifths tunings?
- Any recommendations for assembling custom string sets? I'm probably looking at CGDA (octave cello tuning), which will just about fly using the B,A,D,G strings from a five string set but I'd be open to trying a proper set made up for this tuning.

Big-G

I've never tried 5ths, but if you do not use the G string, and need the low D and Eb, then why not use a 5 string set, and string it up in normal tuning using the B, E, A, D instead of E, A, D, G? I know a lot of bassists actually play this way, and it retains the tension on the neck.

Personally, I just play a 5 string.

Regards
G!

babbalute

☹ thing is that I will have to cart 3 basses with me now as I do not like 5-6-7 or more string guitars to much.

One basis for string in E A D G tuning, one in A D G C tuning and the last one in B E A D.

:-\

AlanRatcliffe

Big G wrote: I've never tried 5ths, but if you do not use the G string, and need the low D and Eb, then why not use a 5 string set, and string it up in normal tuning using the B, E, A, D instead of E, A, D, G? I know a lot of bassists actually play this way, and it retains the tension on the neck.

+1. That was my first thought too (and something I've often considered doing). Unless you are an upright player who doesn't want to learn new fingerings for electric bass.

Jack-Flash-Jr

I have a hipshot d-tuner that instantly drops E to D and back... might be useful in your case as well. The little bit of extra weight in the headstock also helps sort out a known dead spot problem on Jazz necks (or so I'm told...)
http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=57

peterleroux

Jack Flash Jr wrote: I have a hipshot d-tuner that instantly drops E to D and back... might be useful in your case as well. The little bit of extra weight in the headstock also helps sort out a known dead spot problem on Jazz necks (or so I'm told...)
http://store.hipshotproducts.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=57

I've looked at the hipshot detuner, it is fairly pricy and difficult to get locally though. But if it solves the high C dead spot as well it might be worth looking at again. Will just wait for the exchange rate to come back. I think I might try BEAD stringing first.

Norman86

Peter, check your mail.

DaFiz

Big G wrote: I've never tried 5ths, but if you do not use the G string, and need the low D and Eb, then why not use a 5 string set, and string it up in normal tuning using the B, E, A, D instead of E, A, D, G? I know a lot of bassists actually play this way, and it retains the tension on the neck.

Personally, I just play a 5 string.

Regards
G!

I tried this yesterday afternoon thinking the action should be easier and the sound ought to be low down and good for the blues... Problem was the action was way too soft and the strings buzzed on the fretboard... I would need to adjust the action somewhat. No problem, it's easily doable, but I think I should get a fatter gauge string... I use 45 - 105 which are probably the lightest bass guitar strings available...what should I be using for this tuning? (B-E-A-D) ???

Big-G

Sorry if I wasn't clear in my posting, but the way to do it is to use a 5 string set with a low B (usually .135 or .130) and then effectively ignore the G string in that set. So you would then string it from top to bottom as follows....

B (.130/.135)
E (.100/.105)
A (.80/,85)
D (.60/.65)

If you down tuned your .105 to a B, then you would have fretbuzz, as the neck relief will have dropped considerably, and the neck would be sitting back a lot due to less tension.

.45's are not the lightest bass strings, they are actually pretty standard gauge. I have in the past used .40's, but found them to be too tinney sounding, with no real low end 'umph' to them. I even know of some guys who used .35's, although I've never actually seen a set of these available. The general rule though is that as the gauge goes heavier you do get more low end 'umph', and perhaps a little less definition in the top end clarity, and the tension on the string is increased, making it a little harder to play. I guess it could be looked at as being a more pronounced effect than how going from .10's to .12's on an acoustic would effect things?

Hope all that 'pre-coffee' rambling helped?
Regards
G!

BMU

Wow, that's a lot of posts using many clever words, all in order to "enjoy the simplicity of playing The Way Leo Intended."

Maybe...try a 5 string? ?

?

AlanRatcliffe

BMU wrote: Maybe...try a 5 string? ?

Some of us like the low end and have no need for the "widdly-wee" of higher strings (leave that to the guitarists). Many also don't want to cope with wider necks or narrower string spacing. Then it makes far more sense to have a shifted range rather than an extended one...

BMU

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
BMU wrote: Maybe...try a 5 string? ?
Some of us like the low end and have no need for the "widdly-wee" of higher strings (leave that to the guitarists). Many also don't want to cope with wider necks or narrower string spacing. Then it makes far more sense to have a shifted range rather than an extended one...

Just tune everything down a fourth? Even better. I just thought there was a reason for this wanting to tune in 5ths. (The thread title...?)

AlanRatcliffe

BMU wrote: Just tune everything down a fourth? Even better. I just thought there was a reason for this wanting to tune in 5ths. (The thread title...?)

I thought we'd moved on to DaFiz' downtuning experiment... And the OP specifically mentions moving back to a 4-string after playing a 5 for years.

DaFiz

Sorry Alan... I'm just fooling around on the bass guitar and don't quite understand the 'fifths" terminology,
but I really like the idea of tuning the bass guitar down for that extra B...
Nor can I afford a 5 string bass guitar, so I've tuned the E down to B, A down to E, D down to A and G down to D... now this becomes unexpectedly easy to play as they all get tuned to each other at the fifth fret and thus that last step to the G string which is where the scale changes it's pattern is eliminated... ?

I played along with some familiar blues on my iPod and I really like this tuning... I just need fatter strings and will need to re-set the action... The lighter tension on the strings should also make the string last longer and put less stress on the neck as well.... sound like a 'win - win' situation to me. ?

peterleroux

Some nice discussion here.

Weedly-Weedly on the skinny strings on a bass doesn't always work in an ensemble with thre acoustic guitars playing first piston chords and a keyboards player who covers the bass too, so I tend to stay away from that stuff because the midrange gets very crowded if we're all playing there

Five strings are great, but slapping and popping with narrow string spacing is tricky ( Marcus Miller, Flea and Vic Wooten all play fours for slap and pop)

Fifths tuning is effectively 'upside down tuning' ie the intervals are seven frets between strings instead of five. Starting at a low D, the next note would be an A, the following an E and the final string a B. You could do this with a normal string set, but tuning G up to B might break the string. Most people who tune fifths go CGDA instead, like a cello but an octave down.

So far I've been retuning to drop D for ethe songs where I need a D or Eb, but consistent intervals between strings always made more sense to me, and some people who play in fifths swear by it. The obvious problem is the very long reaches because your first position effectively extends up to the sixth fret, your next open will only cover the 7th.

As for string gauges, a 105 E string will _almost_ make it to C and sound ok on my Jazz, but it tends to rattle. I play wi a slightly higher action than normal because I prefer the tone that way, but you need to play nearer the bridge on down tuned strings to stop buzz and rattle.