Thanks Vic!

Thanked and stickied.

Just a heads up, I came across some shure mics at cash converters (park meadows) and was going to picked up a sm57 for R750. Of course I looked for all the tell tale signs on the outside of the mic for a fake. This thing was spot on! Even the tiny Shure logo by the pins was there. Only when I OPENED IT UP did I see this was a fake. This fake was extremely close so even the Youtube video seem a little out of date regarding counterfeits.

studmissile wrote: Just a heads up, I came across some shure mics at cash converters (park meadows) and was going to picked up a sm57 for R750. Of course I looked for all the tell take signs on the outside of the mic for a fake. This thing was spot on! Even the tiny Shure logo by the pins was there. Only when I OPENED IT UP did I see this was a fake. This fake was extremely close so even the Youtube video seem a little out of date regarding counterfeits.

Jaaa....the fakers are getting better and better...that's the worrying part.

Vic wrote:

studmissile wrote: Just a heads up, I came across some shure mics at cash converters (park meadows) and was going to picked up a sm57 for R750. Of course I looked for all the tell take signs on the outside of the mic for a fake. This thing was spot on! Even the tiny Shure logo by the pins was there. Only when I OPENED IT UP did I see this was a fake. This fake was extremely close so even the Youtube video seem a little out of date regarding counterfeits.

Jaaa....the fakers are getting better and better...that's the worrying part.

Firstly, thanks Vic. Important, comprehensive post.

The thing is that they will continue to improve superficial surface features because that's cheap. Making an object look like an expensive product is not expensive. But there's a limit. They want to make maximum profit so it doesn't serve them to actually make something that can really pass muster or is a good instrument item. So yeah, it's often when you open them up that you'll confirm. Like in Gibsons: mini-pots. Less acute headstock angle (although an enterprising maker could use a scarf joint to get a more strongly angled headstock for cheap). Short, ill-fitting neck tennon. Very poor routing of cavities. More obviously evidence of ply or chipboard.

Basically yes. Fakers get better. As they get more sophisticated you're less likely to see obvious visual clues on the outside of the instrument. You've pretty much got to know what to expect inside these products to be sure.

Simple really, if it says 'Tokai' on the headstock it is a fake and should be avoided. ? ?

Ok back to serious conversation ?

singemonkey wrote:

Vic wrote:

studmissile wrote: Just a heads up, I came across some shure mics at cash converters (park meadows) and was going to picked up a sm57 for R750. Of course I looked for all the tell take signs on the outside of the mic for a fake. This thing was spot on! Even the tiny Shure logo by the pins was there. Only when I OPENED IT UP did I see this was a fake. This fake was extremely close so even the Youtube video seem a little out of date regarding counterfeits.

Jaaa....the fakers are getting better and better...that's the worrying part.

Firstly, thanks Vic. Important, comprehensive post.

The thing is that they will continue to improve superficial surface features because that's cheap. Making an object look like an expensive product is not expensive. But there's a limit. They want to make maximum profit so it doesn't serve them to actually make something that can really pass muster or is a good instrument item. So yeah, it's often when you open them up that you'll confirm. Like in Gibsons: mini-pots. Less acute headstock angle (although an enterprising maker could use a scarf joint to get a more strongly angled headstock for cheap). Short, ill-fitting neck tennon. Very poor routing of cavities. More obviously evidence of ply or chipboard.

Basically yes. Fakers get better. As they get more sophisticated you're less likely to see obvious visual clues on the outside of the instrument. You've pretty much got to know what to expect inside these products to be sure.

+1
That's the tricky part guys. It's now become essential to become educated about the "guts" that make a Fender a Fender, etc. The fake business is a global enterprise and anyone can fall prey if one is not very careful and know what to look for.

the sad part is that these days i wouldn't want to buy a Gibson Standard or A Fender Highway one... rather buy a tokai / save up cos sometimes a real "made in USA" is a negative thing when in a certain range:

http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Gibson-Guitar-Reviews-E6869.htm

nick wrote: Simple really, if it says 'Tokai' on the headstock it is a fake and should be avoided. ? ?

Ok back to serious conversation ?

Only Canadian fake Tokais are fake. All the SA ones are real Tokais ?

nick wrote: Simple really, if it says 'Tokai' on the headstock it is a fake and should be avoided. ? ?

I have never come across a Fake Tokai hahaha, or maybe I just don't know the give aways on Tokai guitars.
That said, the top end Love Rocks certainly rival authentic Gibson USA Lps...in my humble opinion.

Hi
I have an ANTORIA 689N which is a copy of a Gibson J200 . ANTORIAS were made by IBANEZ for J T COPPOCK in Enland . Its a fake but I would'nt swop it for the Gibson .
Are there any other owners of the high quality Antoria guitars in SA . sorry i know im off the real topic
elvin

Elvin wrote: Hi
I have an ANTORIA 689N which is a copy of a Gibson J200 . ANTORIAS were made by IBANEZ for J T COPPOCK in Enland . Its a fake but I would'nt swop it for the Gibson .
Are there any other owners of the high quality Antoria guitars in SA . sorry i know im off the real topic
elvin

A word of clarity... *sigh*... in English, the word "fake" means that the item deceives. If you get a copy of a Rolex that says "This is not a Rolex" as the brand-name, it's not a fake. A copy of Van Gogh's Sunflowers isn't a fake if it's signed, "Bertie Simmons." Because only the illiterate could be deceived... and not for long. Your Antoria is a copy. Because anyone who thinks it's a Gibson when it says, "Antoria" on the headstock deserves to be ripped off.

singemonkey wrote:

Elvin wrote: Hi
I have an ANTORIA 689N which is a copy of a Gibson J200 . ANTORIAS were made by IBANEZ for J T COPPOCK in Enland . Its a fake but I would'nt swop it for the Gibson .
Are there any other owners of the high quality Antoria guitars in SA . sorry i know im off the real topic
elvin

A word of clarity... *sigh*... in English, the word "fake" means that the item deceives. If you get a copy of a Rolex that says "This is not a Rolex" as the brand-name, it's not a fake. A copy of Van Gogh's Sunflowers isn't a fake if it's signed, "Bertie Simmons." Because only the illiterate could be deceived... and not for long. Your Antoria is a copy. Because anyone who thinks it's a Gibson when it says, "Antoria" on the headstock deserves to be ripped off.

+1

Some interesting stories and comments here http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazine/Issue/2009/Dec/The_Growing_Problem_of_Counterfeit_Guitars.aspx

" a North Carolina man, Steve F. Sexton, was arrested and charged with two felony counts of criminal use of a counterfeit trademark, after selling fake Gibson guitars to unsuspecting victims, including a 15-year old boy who had saved money to buy his first Les Paul. Sexton plead guilty to two counts, was sentenced to 45 days in jail, 18 months of unsupervised probation, was fined $250 and ordered to pay his victims $2,700 in restitution".

Yeah Vic. On mylespaul, people always show up in the "other Les Pauls" section (which is obviously a go-to section for me) assuming there'll be sympathy for fakes. Cases like the one you cite are exactly why they always get torn a new one ("what harm? I just want a decent guitar...")

Spotted a fake fender at a pawn shop.. had a ply body and a shockingneck. Obvious fake, doubt that one would have duped anyone

guidothepimmp wrote: Spotted a fake fender at a pawn shop.. had a ply body and a shockingneck. Obvious fake, doubt that one would have duped anyone

Did you tell the guys who run the shop..?

Told the guy i had serious reservations about it being the genuine article, his response was that is why it was priced 1k.

It had a natural finish, that's how the ply body was obvious.. it actually looked like a cheaply made copy and the prior owner stuck a fender decal on it.

No serial, no made in.., no anything..

Here is an interesting post I read recently

"I have an Asian made guitar and I had "C F Martin" inlaid in the head stock and installed the hexagon blocks on the fret board and after playing a show in West Va. a fellow came up to me and said that was the best sounding D-45 he had ever heard and he played a few tunes on it and never realized the difference and right inside the sound hole is a label with the manufactors name on it...I also have acustom made mandolin with "The Gibson" inlaid on the head stock and was made from plans that were said to be Loar plans and it has a label inside with the real makers name and serial number, I don`t try to pass them off as originals, I guess bluegrassers just want to look like they have the best, thats why most of them play F models, it`s sort of a status symbol....Most 5 string banjos are not original, at least the older ones aren`t...From what I have heard a person can buy the same parts that Gibson uses to build banjos so some people think they are the same...I know/met a fellow named "Gibson" that builds banjos using those parts and when he puts "Gibson" on them is he guilty of making a fake instrument? "

:-\

What a pathetic character.

singemonkey wrote: What a pathetic character.

Indeed !