Tech Riders

Phil

Hello ?

Looking for general opinions?

How many pub/club/small festival level acts carry a technical rider? Should they?

AlanRatcliffe

They all should IMO, but very few actually do. Tech riders smooth the way so everyone knows what to expect and they also save time and a lot of back and forth questions.

Keira-WitherKay

Well most of the better hotel venues worldwide , require tech riders, also thats something my agent or festival management usually requires when i return the contract , so normally include it in the contract , ? thats also where you list that the dressing room should have a bottle of "jack" and a bowl of smarties with all the green ones removed ? so yes the better venues do it , but don't expect the local pub to even have an inhouse system or sound team , but in my experience the better venues do require one or at least send you a list of their inhouse system and backline so you know what to bring

Phil

My own opinion is the same. ALL bands that perform live should carry a tech rider EVEN if the in house system or hired PA is not up to scratch.

It greatly helps the engineer to plan, shows professionalism, shows some interest from the band in the PA (they should be interested for many good reasons) and many other positives.

The reason why I ask is because in my area very few bands carry tech riders and I was wondering if the problem is the same elsewhere.

At the very least, a stage plot with a description of what each band member plays is most useful.

Over the last few months, I have started drawing up rough (very basic) tech riders for bands during the gig (for them to keep afterwards) so that if I work with them again they would hopefully have kept the rider which should make things go a lot smoother?

Arno-West

I have a detailed ryder for each of my 3 bands. For pubs and clubs, we never bother with ryders cos we just take our own gear and I do the sound. The only time we send out a tech ryder is when an A/V company does the staging and sound for the (normally a once- off private/corporate/festival) event and they request a ryder. Even then we shouldn't bother cos most companies never bring the specified backline anyway. They just bring whatever they have or feel like bringing, which is usually top-notch stuff, but not what we specified. So we've learnt to take it as it comes, plug 'n play and forget about it.

briang-telkomsa-net

Excuse my ignorance - what would be included in a tech rider?

Psean

briang wrote: Excuse my ignorance - what would be included in a tech rider?

Yeah. I've never heard the term.

epictring

We also use a tech rider. It builds professionalism before you even arrive at the venue.

21Fretter

briang wrote: Excuse my ignorance - what would be included in a tech rider?

+1. Would be nice to hear what our local musos include in their riders. Could obviously Google but who knows, the "standard" could vary from country to country.

epictring

21Fretter wrote:
briang wrote: Excuse my ignorance - what would be included in a tech rider?
+1. Would be nice to hear what our local musos include in their riders. Could obviously Google but who knows, the "standard" could vary from country to country.

I'm sure ours isn't 100% on "standard" but it includes a stage plan (graphical reference to stage that includes positions of musicians, amps used, instruments used, monitor positions, DI-boxes etc.), a list of ALL equipment provided by the band (exact models) with input methods as well as the required equipment the venue needs to supply (Back Line Guide & Input List Guide). Then some other basic short biography, links, photos and other media for promotional purposes.

It sounds easy, but its quite an ordeal to get together once you start factoring in everything.

Arno-West

briang wrote: Excuse my ignorance - what would be included in a tech rider?

Here's a basic example of what we use. There are more info that we normally put in like stage size and dimensions and power ratings....

TECHNICAL RYDERS:

LEON SHAW SYNDICATE:

1 x 5-piece Yamaha Drum kit (Kit must be fully mic-ed up)
1 x Guitar amplifier (Marshall JCM 900 or Fender Twin Reverb)
1 x Bass Amplifier of at least 300 watt RMS power Rating (Ampeg or Trace Elliot
1 x D.I. box for Laptop
1 x D.I. box for Bass Guitar
4 x Wedged Stage Monitors
3 x Shure SM58 Beta Microphones and Stands for Vocals
1 x Shure SM57 Beta Microphone to mic-up guitar amplifier
3 x Guitar Stands

ALTER-IRVING BAND

1 x 5-piece Yamaha Drum kit (Kit must be fully mic-ed up)
1 x Guitar amplifier (Marshall JCM 900 or Fender Twin)
1 x Bass Amplifier of at least 300 watt RMS power Rating (Ampeg or Trace Elliot)
3 x D.I boxes for Acoustic Guitars and Bass Guitar
5 x Shure SM58 Beta Microphones and Stands for Vocals
1 x Shure SM57 Beta Microphone to mic-up Guitar amplifier
6 x Wedged Stage Monitors
7 x Guitar Stands

Phil

A technical rider is a document that usually forms a section the complete rider (for larger touring acts). It is a detailed list what of the band requires from the sound/lighting company. The language used is usually very simple and direct. A good tech rider should (from an engineers point of view) include:

Who is in the band? (good engineers like to address you by name as opposed to calling you "drummer" or "guitarist in the red shirt")
What does each person play? (john is the drummer, mike is the singer, etc)
What backline does each performer require? (state your preferred unit BUT always offer alternatives)
How many monitors and monitor mixes do you require?
What microphones/DI points do you require? (include details of mics, mic stands, mono or stereo DI, etc)
What outboard do you require? (comps, eq's, etc)
Stage plot (who stands where, where do the amps/drum kit go, where do the monitors go) THIS IS ESSENTIAL
Many bands also include what they do not want (i.e. no behringer, dixon, whardale gear, etc)
Many higher level bands also specify preferred brands and layout of sound/lighting/video/recording/broadcast systems

It is absolutely essential that every band everywhere carry at least a detailed stage plot for every single gig where they themselves do not provide sound. (can help with setup even if the band is providing sound). It is professional, it helps the soundman setup the stage the way you like it, it helps the band develop a consistent setup. Include each performers position, name, mic/DI, instrument, amp/drumkit, monitors.

Phil

I am working on making 3d stage plots for bands, heres an idea of what I am talking about. It makes setting up the stage and communication info over the phone much much easier.

21Fretter

Phil wrote: I am working on making 3d stage plots for bands, heres an idea of what I am talking about. It makes setting up the stage and communication info over the phone much much easier.

That is cool. What are you modelling in out of interest? I imagine you call the venue beforehand/have already been calling venues to get measurements of their stages?

Phil

Using google sketchup 8 to model. If the venue cannot supply measurements I go measure. Sketchup is not very user friendly but it is free. Unfortunately you have to settle for the 3d objects that people share on web if you don't want/can't create your own. (I can't). In some situations a normal 2d stageplot is better but this 3d thing really helps people who are not familiar with pro audio as it becomes like a jigsaw puzzle with the picture on the box.

Another thing about tech riders I was thinking about:

Not everybody in the industry uses the same terminology, for example: I was working with another provider when he asked where the amp racks might go, I suggested "upstage and stage left". He didn't understand. Therefore, it might be a good idea to look for terms that everyone will be able to understand considering many of us have different names for things.

(Although, anyone in the industry who doesn't understand the difference between stage left/right versus house left/right or any sensible variations thereof is a hazard)