Any of you guys suffer from Carpal Tunnel or Cubital Tunnel Syndrome?

Tokai-SA

It's not fun, I can tell you that.

There's two kinds.
Carpal Tunnel is when the Median nerve in the wrist joint is compressed and it results in your palm, thumb, first finger, middle finger and half your ring finger going numb and feeling like a permanent pins and needles.
You also lose strength in the hand and fingers, try bending strings, etc.

The second kind is Cubital Tunnel Syndrome.
This is when the Ulnar nerve is compressed in the elbow area.
In this case (my case), the palm of the hand, the upper half of the ring finger and the baby finger are numb and weak.
Great fun doing legato with your baby finger but you can't feel your baby finger on the strings/fretboard. ☹

Peter Hanmer had it on his right hand, his strumming hand, the only two fingers he could feel were his thumb and first finger, so he could hold the plectrum.
But, he couldn't mute properly because the rest of the hand, palm were numb.
After going to a bunch of expert specialists, one guy told him, "you're leaning on your elbow, you have to stop doing it".
Turns out when driving Peter was resting his right elbow on the door handle, that's what was causing his problem.
He stopped doing it, problem solved.

I notice when I'm sitting at my PC I lean my left elbow on the desk, perhaps this is my problem, who knows, we'll see, I'm not doing it any more.
Right now my unsuccessful guitar playing career is over, which is not a problem because it never started. ?

Anyway, lots to read about it on the internet, medication, surgery, etc, etc.

Jayhell

I thought I had it starting a few years ago and I was super worried. But it turned out to be RDS, Repetitive Stress Syndrome. This was just caused by doing the same movements over and over. Working in IT, typing on a keyboard for most of the day, then playing like 3 hours of playstation followed by a couple of hours of guitar did that to me. I tried everything and it just got worse up to the stage where I got Cortisone injections straight into my wrists. The solution was to take a break. I stopped playing playstation, took regular breaks while working and rather played guitar with a quality approach rather than a quantity one. It eventually got better, but still if I play to many power chords my hands become weak and my wrists hurt. I also tend to go for super light gauge strings and acoustic guitars still make me hurt (so I stay away from them). Look at the things you do, maybe you can minimize the stress on your hands or go the surgery route. If you love playing, you will have to make a plan.

Good luck

vic

Sorry to hear Lance. .....Ai man. ☹ But all is not lost hey. ! I'm sure something can be done about it.

Maybe Reinhard can chip in here with advice.

Tokai-SA

Jayhell wrote: I thought I had it starting a few years ago and I was super worried. But it turned out to be RDS, Repetitive Stress Syndrome. This was just caused by doing the same movements over and over. Working in IT, typing on a keyboard for most of the day, then playing like 3 hours of playstation followed by a couple of hours of guitar did that to me. I tried everything and it just got worse up to the stage where I got Cortisone injections straight into my wrists. The solution was to take a break. I stopped playing playstation, took regular breaks while working and rather played guitar with a quality approach rather than a quantity one. It eventually got better, but still if I play to many power chords my hands become weak and my wrists hurt. I also tend to go for super light gauge strings and acoustic guitars still make me hurt (so I stay away from them). Look at the things you do, maybe you can minimize the stress on your hands or go the surgery route. If you love playing, you will have to make a plan.

Good luck

From what I've read it appears repetitive movements can also cause it.
I think the cortisone injections did the trick for you.

Tokai-SA

Vic wrote:
Sorry to hear Lance. .....Ai man. ☹ But all is not lost hey. ! I'm sure something can be done about it.

Maybe Reinhard can chip in here with advice.

Hi Vic

Luckily I'm just a play at home hobbyist guitarist, so I'm not too stressed about it.

I'd like to hear some advice from Reinhard.

Miemie

Hey man

Suffered from this couple of years ago.Surgery fixed it.15 minute procedure apperently.Only evidence remaining is a scar across the wrist about 7 cm long. Things that were tried prior to surgery include cortisone,shock therapy,some doctor prescribed creams but nothing really gave long term results.

Good luck!

Bob-Dubery

I've had problems with both. Carpal in the left hand, cubital in the right arm.

Symptoms of Carpal Tunnel Syndrom are not limited to numbness or pins and needles. One of the problems I had, especially early in the mornings, was a feeling of swollen knuckles. I couldn't make a fist (the specialist told me this is common with CTS). Whatever the symptoms they are PHANTOM symptoms. They are not real - the nerves are trapped and the pressure on the nerves causes them to send a "pain" signal to the brain. My head was telling me that my knuckles were swollen - even after the physio borrowed a vernier and showed me that the knuckles on the left hand were exactly the same size as on the right.

The specialist I saw was a conservative type - he said that surgery had to be the last resort and recommended an intensive course of physiotherapy. I also had my wrist in a brace. Nothing worked, so I went under the knife. Relief was almost instanenous.

The right arm... that's much harder to operate on. I was having a special "wedged" guitar built by Mervyn Davis to take some strain off of the elbow (I believe Linda Mazner devised this modification to the standard guitar shape, but other builders use it too). But I was experiencing discomfort at work, including numbness and pins and needles in right middle and index fingers. So I bought a Microsoft Natural 4000 keyboard (see the thread http://www.guitarforum.co.za/general-discussion/guitars-and-computer-keyboards-how-to-save-yourself-some-pain/) and switched my mouse to the left hand. The symptoms cleared up in days and I called Mervyn and told him that the modification was no longer required.

The mouse is a bad one. The physio tells me that what used to be called "tennis elbow" is now called "mouse elbow".

The thread I refer to above is about working in IT and playing guitar. But there's a lot of guitarists who don't work in IT but still spend a lot of time on a computer. So take a look. My wife works with computers all day but doesn't play guitar and she was also having pain in her hands. I bought her a Natural keyboard - much better.

Bob-Dubery

PS: I have no affiliation with M$soft or any computer shop. I just know the difference that keyboard has made for me.

But accept no substitutes! M$oft, Logitech and etc make all sorts of slightly curvaceous keyboards that look interesting (but less radical than the Natural 4000) but don't offer nearly as much relief. Get the Natural 4000, and leave on the piece that raises the front. It will feel weird for a short while, but you'll soon get used to it.

Reinhard

Hi Lance

Sorry to hear about the discomfort, guitar is hard enough without any other factors making it worse. You didn't say how long you have been having symptoms?

Like you have said, checking what activities could be the cause is a good start. Unfortunately we spend more and more time in front of the computer and most of the time it is in incorrect positions. Repetitive pulling, lifting etc. can also contribute. Even a blow to the elbow can injure the nerve and cause radiculopathy (pins and needles etc.). Check for any abnormal positions or positions where you get pressure on the elbow region. Also, good advice for anyone staying in one position most of the day, is to take regular breaks (every 30 -45 mins and just get out of that position).

Non-surgical treatment could be stretching forearm muscles or even improving the mobility/gliding of the ulnar nerve, but it would all depend on why you are getting pressure on the ulnar nerve.

Keep us posted, I hope you get this resolved quickly ?

Bob-Dubery

I know of an excellent physio in Jo'burg (her rooms are on the Blairgowrie/Craighall border) who specialises in arms and hands. I don't feel able to post her details on a public forum without her permission, but anybody interested can PM me and I will let you have her phone number.

BMU

Sorry to hear it Tokai. I do a lot of guitar, a lot of computer (and a lot of xbox, to top it off) so this really scares me. Been lucky so far.

At work we have software that enforces a 5 second break every 5 minutes. The theory goes that regular 'micro' breaks are key to preventing RSI (repetitive stress injury.)

Having your screen lock up every five minutes can drive you crazy, but I've felt the benefits. Now I try to do that when working at home too, not always easy though.

V8

X-rated Bob wrote: The mouse is a bad one. The physio tells me that what used to be called "tennis elbow" is now called "mouse elbow".

The thread I refer to above is about working in IT and playing guitar. But there's a lot of guitarists who don't work in IT but still spend a lot of time on a computer. So take a look. My wife works with computers all day but doesn't play guitar and she was also having pain in her hands. I bought her a Natural keyboard - much better.

Mouse elbow - that's interesting info - thanks Bob! +1 for the natural keyboard, got a wireless setup so if I have work extended sessions I can move the working position around without hassling with the wires.

I recently noticed (perhaps thanks to a particularly chilly Slaapstad winter), pain in wrist and elbow - freaked me out a bit, so immediately chatted to guitar teacher and accupunturist. Seems like posture/technique was the cause, did some preventative treatment for the symptoms and a lot better now.

Still need to warm up a little before playing extended sessions though - something I have had to come to terms with as the grey hairs multiply :-[

Jack-Flash-Jr

A couple of years ago I had problems in my lh (carpal) and left shoulder (light 6 string, standing playing... something about my posture led to it). Went to physio, tried all sorts of stuff. Serious pain for months. Went to a respected acupuncturist and after 3 sessions all pain gone, never had a problem again.

Tokai-SA

Reinhard wrote: Hi Lance

Sorry to hear about the discomfort, guitar is hard enough without any other factors making it worse. You didn't say how long you have been having symptoms?

Like you have said, checking what activities could be the cause is a good start. Unfortunately we spend more and more time in front of the computer and most of the time it is in incorrect positions. Repetitive pulling, lifting etc. can also contribute. Even a blow to the elbow can injure the nerve and cause radiculopathy (pins and needles etc.). Check for any abnormal positions or positions where you get pressure on the elbow region. Also, good advice for anyone staying in one position most of the day, is to take regular breaks (every 30 -45 mins and just get out of that position).

Non-surgical treatment could be stretching forearm muscles or even improving the mobility/gliding of the ulnar nerve, but it would all depend on why you are getting pressure on the ulnar nerve.

Keep us posted, I hope you get this resolved quickly ?

Hi Reinhard

Thanks for some great advice.

I noticed symptoms about a week ago.
Bending a string suddenly felt difficult, no strength, and then I noticed the numbness on the palm and baby/middle fingers.
To be honest I didn't sleep well that night, I thought I was heading for a heart attack...you know that story, left arm numb could mean, etc, etc. ?

After speaking to Peter about being aware of leaning your elbow, etc, I realised whenever I sit at the PC and I'm just reading off the screen, I rest my left elbow on the desk...now that I'm aware of that I'm avoiding doing it.
Also, I'm always carrying boxes or guitars in cases, etc, often I'm bumping my elbow against walls...so I'm watching that as well.

I'm taking Coxflam tablets, one a day for the last 3 days.
I think I'm noticing a slight improvement...only slight, my ring and baby fingers are still weak, but a slight reduction in numbness.

I'll keep you updated.

Thanks again.

Ray

you can pay a lot for treatment but you can also do some exercises. I've got it but get really good relief from doing some exercises with a thera-band flexbar. just twisting and so forth. another thing you should try is to stand facing a wall. reach out and touch the wall with your fingersthen like move forward until your hand is flat against the wall with your palm facing the wall and your fingers pointing up. you feel the stretch along the bottom of your elbow and along the bottom of your forearm. Physios all over have special treatments for it. My thinking? You pretty much know what causes it because you feel the symptoms after certain activities (or lack of) so counter with other activities. dont do press-ups on your fists anymore - put your hands flat on the floor.

I get it in both arms and I dont know but the above things sort me out. I tried the natural keyboard thing but I go to 1, 2 sometimes 3 client sites a day and the keyboard is in a cupboard somewhere or maybe on someone else desk at the moment. do counter stretches all the time. become consious of what postures and activities cause it. dont stop doing them - just include the counter things. I think your body is made to do all sorts of things but you got to have balance.

stick out your arm in front of you. then lift your hand with your fingers pointing to the sky and with other arm stretch the fingers toward you like backwards. you feel it pulling and it feels good.

vic

Tokai SA wrote:
Reinhard wrote: Hi Lance

Sorry to hear about the discomfort, guitar is hard enough without any other factors making it worse. You didn't say how long you have been having symptoms?

Like you have said, checking what activities could be the cause is a good start. Unfortunately we spend more and more time in front of the computer and most of the time it is in incorrect positions. Repetitive pulling, lifting etc. can also contribute. Even a blow to the elbow can injure the nerve and cause radiculopathy (pins and needles etc.). Check for any abnormal positions or positions where you get pressure on the elbow region. Also, good advice for anyone staying in one position most of the day, is to take regular breaks (every 30 -45 mins and just get out of that position).

Non-surgical treatment could be stretching forearm muscles or even improving the mobility/gliding of the ulnar nerve, but it would all depend on why you are getting pressure on the ulnar nerve.

Keep us posted, I hope you get this resolved quickly ?
Hi Reinhard

Thanks for some great advice.

I noticed symptoms about a week ago.
Bending a string suddenly felt difficult, no strength, and then I noticed the numbness on the palm and baby/middle fingers.
To be honest I didn't sleep well that night, I thought I was heading for a heart attack...you know that story, left arm numb could mean, etc, etc. ?

After speaking to Peter about being aware of leaning your elbow, etc, I realised whenever I sit at the PC and I'm just reading off the screen, I rest my left elbow on the desk...now that I'm aware of that I'm avoiding doing it.
Also, I'm always carrying boxes or guitars in cases, etc, often I'm bumping my elbow against walls...so I'm watching that as well.

I'm taking Coxflam tablets, one a day for the last 3 days.
I think I'm noticing a slight improvement...only slight, my ring and baby fingers are still weak, but a slight reduction in numbness.

I'll keep you updated.

Thanks again.

That's a definate factor. The handles cut into your finger joints and put a lotta pressure on the nerves. I once carried an AC30 up and down between Tottenham Court and Euston stations and for weeks after that I had this numbness in both hands.

Hasie

Hey,

Did you ever get the cubital tunnel syndrome sorted out?

I have it, and only a year since I started playing guitar. It's frustrating, becausr I like playing. And if I practice just a bit too long, my arm is screwed up for two to three weeks again.

Will it be better to practice on an electric guitar? Will power chords worsen it or is it easier on the arm than the normal chords?

thrasher

eat lots of bananas!

It worked for Yngwie malmsteen and Richie blackmore!

They had carpal tunnel syndrome.

Potassium is what helps cure carpal tunnel and bananas has loads of it!

Chocklit_Thunda

I do... But not from guitar.... More from being an adolescent with an Internet connection ?

DrGonzo

I suffer quite severely recently from RSI - Wrist pain, Tendonitis and Tennis(mouse) Elbow.
All related 100% to computer use.

its quite shitty but I'm dealing with it.

Stretches, Strengthening and Rest are the proposed solutions. I'm also trying some supplements like MSM and Boswellia herbal extracts. Ginger and Tumeric are great for inflammation and pain as well, as is Fish Oil (omega 3)

ill let u know what works out best for me :-\