rikus
Calling piano/keyboard experts... I'm finally getting my things in order to start learning piano... and I need some advice.
While at Marshall Music yesterday I spent some time looking at keyboards. I'm looking for a full 88-key weighted key keyboard. Marshall has a Yamaha P-95 on special for what seems like a good price, but I'm wondering whether it's worth it to rather look for a second hand one? While I keep an eye on gumtree for guitar related goodies I have no idea whether second hand keyboard (other than the really cheap casios) ever come available?
Any advice would be appreciated.
R.
AlanRatcliffe
They do pop up second hand, but there are quite simply few of them out there. On the bright side they do tend to pop up at good prices - typical for any tech item, the prices drop quickly with the release of newer models. You have to have cash ready and keep an eye out. I've been keeping my eyes open for a Roland RD stage piano for the last year and I've seen three pop up in that time (but invariably just after I blow my GAS budget on something else and cannot stretch to them ☹).
On the other hand, specials do also turn up some very good prices. Especially on end-of-line products and during birthday sales. The P95 is a fairly entry level though...
Not a huge issue if you are going to learn on it, but different manufacturers have different actions that feel and play differently. My wife is classically trained on a real piano and hates the feel of the Yamaha pianos, but likes the Roland and Kawai models.
On any price, make sure to find out if pedals and stand are included as that can bump up the price a bit. Also bear in mind that benches/stools are almost never included.
rikus
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
They do pop up second hand, but there are quite simply few of them out there. On the bright side they do tend to pop up at good prices - typical for any tech item, the prices drop quickly with the release of newer models. You have to have cash ready and keep an eye out. I've been keeping my eyes open for a Roland RD stage piano for the last year and I've seen three pop up in that time (but invariably just after I blow my GAS budget on something else and cannot stretch to them ☹).
Thanks Alan!
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
On the other hand, specials do also turn up some very good prices. Especially on end-of-line products and during birthday sales. The P95 is a fairly entry level though...
Not a huge issue if you are going to learn on it, but different manufacturers have different actions that feel and play differently. My wife is classically trained on a real piano and hates the feel of the Yamaha pianos, but likes the Roland and Kawai models.
This is something that is worrying me slightly. I really don't have a frame of reference when it comes to the feel, so I don't know how to judge what is better or worse? It's also not something that I can ask someone else's take on, because it's so personal.
Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
On any price, make sure to find out if pedals and stand are included as that can bump up the price a bit. Also bear in mind that benches/stools are almost never included.
That I didn't think about... thanks for the heads-up.
AlanRatcliffe
Rikus wrote:
This is something that is worrying me slightly. I really don't have a frame of reference when it comes to the feel, so I don't know how to judge what is better or worse? It's also not something that I can ask someone else's take on, because it's so personal.
There are two major competing actions for pianos. Neither is better or worse, but they are slightly different. It's just that piano players often form a preference, depending on what they learn on. If you are learning, I don't think it makes a difference at all. Kind of like Gibson v Fender scale lengths - if you learn on one, you're always more comfortable on guitars with the same scale length, but you can still play the other.
Anyway, in the old days when acoustic pianos ruled, players would have to play on whatever the venue provided, so they would be used to playing on both. So that's do-able too.
Norman86
funny enough, the Casio CDP-120 is also well regarded, so another choice for you to try out!
even if it is a casio ?
AlanRatcliffe
I have it from a reliable source that Casio have stepped up their game in recent years, both in quality and in local backup. They are still not as good for resale value as they used to be.
Yamaha also have vastly improved local backup over the last decade.
I usually go Roland, because their backup, quality and resale values have always been good.
AlanRatcliffe
Oh, and local backup is very important. Pianos are heavy, and once it's out of guarantee, you don't want to ship it halfway across the country to a service centre for any repairs. I know that most repairers won't touch Yamaha, because a lot of the parts are proprietry and they hate having their workshops full of large instruments waiting for parts ex Japan.
floydthebarber71
Hi Rikus
Did you manage to find anything? Any feedback on your search or what you settled on?
I am in the same boat. I'm looking around in JHB for a piano keyboard. I would like it to mimic a real piano as much as possible, so full 88-key and weighted etc, the extra voices and effects would be a plus but not a priority. I'm trying to learn myself and can't stand my Casio 61-key thingy. It was nice to get a feel for everything, but I need a piano. Unfortunately staying on the 4th floor of a flat with neighbours means I need a keyboard.
I went to Music Mate in Fourways to see what they had. I wasn't impressed at all with the feel of the Casios. That CDP-120 was on special for R7500 I think, but it felt awful to play. The Yamahas felt pretty good. There was a Yamaha Arius S31 which seemed quite decent for R11700. But then I played a Yamaha Clavinova that they had for R35,000...and you see how you get what you pay for!! My word, that was nice. The guy working there didn't seem to know much more than spec sheets, so I need to look around a bit more and try research myself.
I don't know which other music shops in JHB area have a good range of keyboards? There were no Rolands or Kawais to try out at the Fourways Music Mate. Plus I've seen online that there are a couple of Yamaha keyboards above the S31 which I might be interested in (YDP-141 or YDP-161) but haven't seen any yet, not anybody who can tell me the difference or point me to what would suit my needs better.
I've been looking on classifieds sites for something second hand. Unfortunately it seems guys posting these things up can't seem to let go of their ancient tech at ancient tech prices. They only drop the price at a couple grand for what they paid for it, even though the keyboard is like 10 years old with 32 note polyphony etc!!!! So I don't have much faith in finding anything worthwhile.
If anyone knows of music shops with a decent range or know of particular keyboard models, this would be extremely helpful...
rikus
I decided to sit back and wait for a second hand deal to pop up. Nothing yet, but I'm in no hurry at the moment...
floydthebarber71
Anything specific you are waiting for? The S31 at Music Mate is a decent deal.
Norman86
for yamaha, try lovemore music in boksburg, and even musicworld in the east rand mall...
i recall seeing the S31 for less than 10k not too long ago!
floydthebarber71
Cool thanks! I also see there's a Mus!ca Instruments in Pretoria that stocks Kawai, will be taking a look there too.
floydthebarber71
Just to let you know, I am going for a Kawai CL36 that I saw in Musica Instruments. I tried a lot of pianos, Yamaha was a close second. I didn't quite enjoy the action of the Yamaha, something a bit wrong there in that design (I'm talking about their higher end digi's). Just not for me I guess, an acoustic doesn't really feel that springy or bouncy even though the weighting seems decent.
The Kawai is simply gorgeous. A bit more plain in features, and a big downside for me is that there is no slide cover (ohhh the kids!!), but it just suited me perfectly.
Rikus, there are some decent Yamahas popping up second hand where people are desperate to sell. I went to see a Clavinova CLP230 for R12k, the guy then offered to give it to me for R8k....
domhatch
to all y'all looking for 'keyboards', remember one thing - clavinovas and their ilk are not, generally speaking, 'keyboards'. they are, for want of a better description, piano simulators. you get various iterations of these things. i have a clp 330 or 340 (can never remember which), and it's marvellous. it has a couple of additional sounds to it, but primarily i use it for its pretty accurate piano sound. it came with all three pedals you would expect on a baby or standard grand piano, or a better-quality upright even, as well as a stool and a self-assemble cabinet. them 'piano sim thingies' are generally hefty and require some stage hands to lug from gig to gig. key weighting, though, is likely to be pretty nifty, and in the really dandy ones, you can get actual piano action, i'm told. this i cannot vouch for personally.
a 'keyboard', on the other hand, in a completely different beast. traditionally speaking, one would generally expect this instrument to come with a bunch more built-in sounds, and 9/10 times, there is some kind of sound-edit function on the more up-specced models, as well as user memory where you can store your sounds after having edited them. many will come will built-in drum and/or rhythm patterns, and accompaniment in various styles. mine - an ancient technics kn-1500 - has all the above, plus a stiffy drive (anyone remember what a stiffy is?) for writing entire arrangements to, as well as importing new stuff from, which i never really got the hang of. these days, i'm assuming you'd have a usb connection?
the thing to decide is - for what purpose do you want your device? if you want to learn to play the piano, i would recommend you either buy a piano, or something akin to a clavinova. check the classifieds/gumtree/your local reputable piano shop for a second-hand instrument, and make sure you buy something that's been well looked after. if you want something for enjoyment, to perform a specific keyboard function, act as a midi controller (assuming it has a midi in-out function [or thru if necessary as part of a midi chain]), then you're looking for a keyboard.
the main reason is that you're more likely to get used to playing something like a piano keyboard, if you start off using something like a piano keyboard. a 'keyboard' keyboard can never replicate the action of a piano keyboard. so, yeah, my completely unlearned, but experience-driven view on the subject.
@floyd: enjoy your kawai - nearly got one meself.
dh
floydthebarber71
domhatch wrote:
@floyd: enjoy your kawai - nearly got one meself.
dh
I am really enjoying it!! It has such an amazing feel, this action is a class ahead of the Yamaha. For me. Everyone has their own tastes.
