NID (New Interface Day)

AlanRatcliffe

So I picked up a Focusrite Liquid Saffire 56 from Nic Fourie at Bothner's Plumstead yesterday. ?

So far so good - nice, solid attractive unit in a 2U rack format, not only has it taken the place of my Digidesign 003 Rack, but I've bolted it into my guitar rack, where it has also replaced my Behringer RX-1602 rack mixer (all that was available in rack format at the time, OK?) as it doubles as a very high quality mixer, even when not connected to a computer.

I have to say, I also looked at the Roland Octa-Capture and that was a serious contender at a slightly lower price with even better mic preamps (at least on paper from a cleanness/frequency response perspective), built-in reverb for monitoring, USB2, a unique auto level setting mode (can't remember what they call it, but it's great for a quick setup) and the assurance of Roland drivers (which are always rock solid).

But the Liquid 56 ultimately won out, mostly thanks to the pair of Liquid preamps, a built-in power supply (sorry Roland, but wall-warts or line lumps don't belong in a pro rack) and a native 2U rack format (the Roland has rack adaptors). All the sockets and connectors are bolted/screwed to the steel chassis, not just PCB mounted, so the whole unit comes off as a seriously solid pro bit 'o kit.

The Liquid 56 also has both XLR mic and TRS inputs on every channel and is switchable between the two - so you can leave both mics and line level gear plugged in and just switch via software - nice! Also, you can add on a pair of Octopres to add another 16 channels which makes it a really good idea if you want to expand.

Still early days yet, but first impressions are good...

Some manufacturer's pics:

kayDUB

Cool stuff Alan!

So you rate this unit against the 003? (excluding liquid pre amps) Would love to hear some recordings ?
These have been on my mind for a while (upgrade from Presonus FP10), although lately I find myself looking at the RME stuff... :? Been doing some browsing and learning about ADAT, PCI cards, bla bla ?
I like the ADAT expansion option; didn't realise it actually has 2 ADAT channels! So you could link up one Octopre with both ADATs and get an extra 8 channels at 192 or 2 Octopres and get 16 at 44.1, correct?

Now this might be a stupid question, but say you had a separate preamp (e.g. isa-one, neve, whatever) you could connect this via the line inputs on the LS56? And then if you had a rack compressor, where would that go? after the preamp before the line input? If so, how do you patch a rack compressor in if you are using the liquid pres? software routing the input to an output back, then from output into a line input??

Speaking of the software routing, RME's totalmix software looks very cool, I assume the last screenshot is of Focusrite's version - any idea how it compares?

?

AlanRatcliffe

kayDUB wrote: So you rate this unit against the 003? (excluding liquid pre amps)

Yes. I've always liked the clean sounds of Focusrite pres (not for everything, but most things where I want accurate, uncoloured sound - they are real good workhorses). To be honest, at the levels of home/project studio recording I'm doing, I don't think the 56 is a huge upgrade sonically (I didn't get a chance to A/B). While the standard pres in the 56 are probably a notch or two up from the 003, it's the extra features that really make it an upgrade for me - the mixing and standalone mode and the added flexibility of adding in some colour with the Liquid Pres. It's already simplified my setup a little where I don't have to continually be plugging and unplugging things. Getting rid of the Behri mixer has improved my rack's sound (especially the stereo imaging and depth) and expanded my headroom (the Behri actually sounds OK, but doesn't have a lot of headroom and gets real harsh in the high end real fast when even slightly pushed).

lately I find myself looking at the RME stuff... :?

That's a couple of rungs up the ladder again. Great if you have (or plan to get) the other equipment that can reveal the difference: monitors, mic pres and mics. Otherwise possibly a bit of overkill maybe? "Weakest link" and all that...

So you could link up one Octopre with both ADATs and get an extra 8 channels at 192 or 2 Octopres and get 16 at 44.1, correct?

That's my understanding of it.

say you had a separate preamp (e.g. isa-one, neve, whatever) you could connect this via the line inputs on the LS56?

Correct.

And then if you had a rack compressor, where would that go? after the preamp before the line input?

Correct, or if the pre has an insert, that is another option. Obviously also gates, etc. If that's a regular requirement of yours though, it might be worth your time and money to invest in a few channel strips.

If so, how do you patch a rack compressor in if you are using the liquid pres? software routing the input to an output back, then from output into a line input??

The lack of inserts is the one big downfall of the 56. I haven't looked at the extra routing options yet (I try avoid printing any effect - that's "in-the-box" stuff for me), but I presume routing to outboard gear would work as long as you have the spare inputs and outputs to do exactly that. As long as it's not going through too much extra circuitry...

Speaking of the software routing, RME's totalmix software looks very cool, I assume the last screenshot is of Focusrite's version - any idea how it compares?

Lawks! No. Not yet ?

Big-G

Hi Alan,

Good to meet you yesterday! Thats a nice piece of kit you've replaced the 003 with! That would have been my preference if I had the cash, but thats way beyond my means currently! Your ol' 003 will have to do! Hehe!

I'd be keen to hear how you get on with that 56 though? Will we be seeing any pictures of your 'new' setup soon?

Cheers
G!

kayDUB

Yeah, it definitely has some killer features, and pretty well priced!

Alan Ratcliffe wrote:
lately I find myself looking at the RME stuff... :?
That's a couple of rungs up the ladder again. Great if you have (or plan to get) the other equipment that can reveal the difference: monitors, mic pres and mics. Otherwise possibly a bit of overkill maybe? "Weakest link" and all that...

I hear you, I've got to decide where I'm headed with this stuff and decide accordingly.

Speaking of the software routing, RME's totalmix software looks very cool, I assume the last screenshot is of Focusrite's version - any idea how it compares?
Lawks! No. Not yet ?

Well anyway enough chit chat, I'll leave you to it then ?

AlanRatcliffe

Big G wrote: Good to meet you yesterday!

Likewise!

Thats a nice piece of kit you've replaced the 003 with! That would have been my preference if I had the cash, but thats way beyond my means currently! Your ol' 003 will have to do!

Thanks! And the 003 is good enough that your technique on the recording and playing side will make more of a difference to the quality of your recordings than anything else will.

I'd be keen to hear how you get on with that 56 though? Will we be seeing any pictures of your 'new' setup soon?

I'll keep you updated and post a pic or two.

DrGonzo

Congrats on the interface Allan! new gear day is always a great day! 8)

This is what I find myself perving over lately....

http://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/products/hardware/2882.html

and having heard this beast yesterday confirms that this unit is unbelievable in terms of sound quality, depth, dimension and pure features...

but Alas, at that price, an interface like that is but a dream for me ☹

kayDUB

DrGonzo wrote: This is what I find myself perving over lately....

http://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/products/hardware/2882.html

Pity its mac only... ?

Manfred-Klose

alan, how would you compare the 2 liquid pres to the other 6 pres on the soundcard ?

i am gonna be recording with a unit like this soon, but i haven't had a chance to compare the pres yet.
i will be doing drums, so would you recommend that i use kick and snare into the liquid pre, or overheads rather ?

AlanRatcliffe

As with the real pres, the differences are mostly very subtle, but the liquid pres do have a bit more character and life, while the hardware pres are pretty much neutral and uncoloured. For drums, there's an API emulation which is a standard fave for drums or a Millennia, which is a great for anything where you want clarity and accuracy. It's pretty easy to research each preamp and find their most common applications. Also I find if I crank the harmonics knob, it brings out the character so I know what to listen for when I turn it back down to usable ranges.

As to which to use the liquid channels for, it depends on how you are miking up - which are your important, "lead" mics. If you are recording using old school/jazz approach where you lead with the overheads and reinforce with the close mics then the overheads are key. If you are using the modern, close-miked approach, your kick and snare mics take the lead.

Of course, there is nothing to stop you from defeating the preamp emulation and recording with the natural sound of the hardware pres. You can always use convolution programs to add preamp character to the recorded tracks - the Liquid tech is convolution-based (although convolution done properly is very processor hungry - but you can always freeze tracks if it becomes a problem).

DrGonzo wrote: This is what I find myself perving over lately....
http://mhsecure.com/metric_halo/products/hardware/2882.html

I don't know anything about them. How does it compare to other high end interfaces like the MOTU, RME and Apogee models? And is it as good as getting some nice pres and a pro level A/D? I don't follow the higher end stuff closely as I cannot afford it myself. ?

DrGonzo

kayDUB wrote: Pity its mac only... ?

Oh? I had no idea, thought it was cross platform...

Alan Ratcliffe wrote: I don't know anything about them. How does it compare to other high end interfaces like the MOTU, RME and Apogee models? And is it as good as getting some nice pres and a pro level A/D? I don't follow the higher end stuff closely as I cannot afford it myself. ?

It compares very favorably, in fact quite a bit better... well thats according to my friend Jacob, who has the one I checked out.. he deals with Pro Audio (he is benjamin studios and pro audio) and he had a Apogee Ensemble interface and on top of that Lavry Converters, and he is selling both of those for this unit... He has access to all sorts of slutty things, he even has a Prism Orpheus in his house and still reckons this thing rocks his socks off.
i have compared it with the apogee and it did sound better to my ears... haven't heard any RME units but i can imagine it would be the same story or though i can't say for sure...

Butin anycase, at the moment I'm still very happy with my interface and know that it is capable of great sounding recordings, so something like that i would only consider well in the future, if i was actually making good money as a producer/engineer and such things would be justified...