SnapcaseZA
So I've come to terms with the realisation that I'll never have the spare money to afford a proper tube amp, like the Mesas etc.
However, I am electronically trained so I'm thinking of making my own - ambitious yes. I don't really know amplifiers on the electronic level however, so it'll be all new to me. I'm more a digital electronics guy.
I have some schematics for a EVH 5150 III head, the original 5150, as well as the Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier and they look do able. However I'd like to modify it as I wouldn't need all the different versions and channels. I just want something quite powerful which has a single great clean channel and single (variable) distortion channel. I also don't need 'stereo' outputs. I just want to power a single 4x12 stack, or 2x12 stack.
So I was wondering whether anyone has ever built a proper (50W+) tube amp, and has any tips for me?
My main concerns are as follows:
- where to get power transformers made up
- output transformer too
- where could I go to order tubes online
rikus
SnapcaseZA wrote:
My main concerns are as follows:
- where to get power transformers made up
- output transformer too
- where could I go to order tubes online
Where are you based?
Karel Mars is based in Cape Town and he would be able to wind you any trannies you need.
Tubedepot.com is a great online store. There are group buys every now and then on the forum. Also have a look at the local supplier:
http://mrvalve.wordpress.com They might be able to sort you out.
MikeM
I'd have to recommend someone other than Karel if you're looking for transformers.
Actually I'd just import them depending on what you need. There is some black magic to transformers (Actually loads), and I'd rather go with one's that have a good tolerance.
Here's where I usually buy my goodies. Really good service.
http://store.triodestore.com/bundles.html
Also are you planning to gig the amp? Do you need 50 watts? You could consider using 6V6s or similar for lower output.
epictring
Why do you want a 50+ watt tube amp? Remember that tubes amp are a lot louder than solid state amps.
To give you an idea, my 60watt Fender Super-Sonic tube amp is too loud for a loud drummer at vol. 3.5 already. It's simply too big, and you're never going to get the tone it's capable of by putting the vol. on 3.
Don't get louder than 40watt, it's too loud for our modern world of PA systems at every gig ?
Just my .02c, I already made that mistake.
SnapcaseZA
Yeah, I want to gig the amp. And I only really assumed I needed 50W+ because I found my crappy 100W SS amp was sometimes too underpowered.
Maybe 40W is the region I should be looking to build, if its all tube especially. Should make life a little easier too.
Nice site MikeM, thats probably the easiest for me. Just to buy the transformers and design/build around that.
I'm in Durban. I know I could probably get Lehman Transformers (dbn based too) to build me something, but I think it would just be too much of a mission, and they have long lead times to once off items.
ezietsman
+1 on going smaller. 40 Watt is likely too much, depending on the kind of sound you'd like, if you like it driven and raucous go for ~20 watt and crank it. If you want smoother pre-amp-style distortion and squeaky cleans, then go 35-50watt.
One word of warning. Building your own Tube amp will likely not be any cheaper than buying a factory amp. It can be but you will have to do the sums. Make very sure you include shipping and into any imports as this is quite a lot for heavy things like transformers and speakers and chassis.
Building your own amp is great. A whole bunch of us here at GFSA have done it, and its a lot more fun than just buying any old amp ?
SnapcaseZA
ez wrote:
+1 on going smaller. 40 Watt is likely too much, depending on the kind of sound you'd like, if you like it driven and raucous go for ~20 watt and crank it. If you want smoother pre-amp-style distortion and squeaky cleans, then go 35-50watt.
One word of warning. Building your own Tube amp will likely not be any cheaper than buying a factory amp. It can be but you will have to do the sums. Make very sure you include shipping and into any imports as this is quite a lot for heavy things like transformers and speakers and chassis.
Building your own amp is great. A whole bunch of us here at GFSA have done it, and its a lot more fun than just buying any old amp ?
For sure, I can see where the costs will really stack up. I wont buy speakers though, I would definitely buy a 4x12 stack here second hand. But I think I could get a pretty damn good amp going for a couple of grand. A mate of mine does home PCB manufacturing, so that'll also be pretty cheap. Its mainly the tubes and transformers.
Reinhard
I wanted a matchless, but couldn't afford it. So I got a clone from ceriatone. Handwired head, 15/30W, 2 channels, built like a tank. The amp, shipping and import duty worked out to around 6500. So keep in mind there are cheaper alternatives than buying a Mesa in SA. They also do Marshall, trainwreck, dumble etc clones. Their prices would be tough to beat if you are building your own amp, oh and they sell amp kits as well, I paid a little extra for an assembled head.
MikeM
Reinhard is 100% correct. And that's a damn cool amp actually!
TomCat
If you want to go cheaper then build is not the way to go...by the time you've added everything up and added your time you will probably be at the same point as an off the shelf amp.....
The big advantage of build is the satisfaction of using something you built yourself and being able to tweak it to suit your needs.....
Another tip is to build a head/cab instead of a combo.......lots more in the way of options and tweaks.....
Gearhead
If you want to justify building something yourself, make it something other than price. As others have said, it is not going to be true anyway. A much better reason is that you could build something money can't buy, like a combination of features or tones that you would otherwise need three amps for.
Okay you say you're gigging, but honestly 18W is enough and otherwise there's mics and desks and PAs. The risk of building too big an amp is in the added cost, weight, complexity and most of all the fact that you will never open it up and get to use its full tone.
Mike is recommending against dealing with Karel since he had some bad experience with regard to sticking to time lines; I on the other hand can recommend Karel as he will be more flexible and cheaper than importing. There are more forumites that might help you out with trannies; I'd give BottledTone a shout if I were you.
Lastly don't bother with PCB making. There's more than one reason to go turretboard or even point to point like real tube amps. Just think of the fact that you will want to change this or that somewhere along the way...
TomCat
+1 to what Gearhead has said. A build give you the opportunity to get exactly what you want.....price is secondary.....
I have also had a good experience with Karel and the transformers he made for me are top notch......
MikeM
No, I am recommending against Karel because he couldn't even stay withing a 15% tollerance.
makepeace
My recommendation (for what its worth), having built a meager 5E3, is that if you can get the PT made up here for you for good dosh and to a spec reasonably close to what's required, go for it. The OT on the other hand is another story. You should do some reading as to ascertain what you think you want - there are many variables and as Mike put it - 'black magic' - that won't be easily replicated by any old iron manufacturer. Go for a tried and tested OT, such as the Classictones offered on Triode - very well priced and highly acclaimed transformers, or even - google musical power supplies. They have some great prices for some decent stuff. They're made in China, but designed by a clever dude. Have had good experiences with a multi-tapped 40W OT from Matt that supplanted Karel's OT in my 5E3 to enable use of 6L6's, very effective.
I bought my 5E3 kit from Karel, and while I can say that everything worked out great in the end (and his knowledge about the topic has been absolutely invaluable - I'd like to thank him for that in a public forum), the logistics were difficult to say the least.
Another thing, don't let the price factor dismay you with regards to rolling your own. There really is a lot of fun and satisfaction in it, and I would say if you disregard your time as a cost factor and know your way around google and are reasonably resourceful you can easily build an amp for quite a bit less than the bigger manufacturer at least.
The customization factor has already been spoken for, and is highly endorsed. You will end up with something that will (to you at least) be worth more than the sum of its parts.
I'd also contentiously say - if you want a +20W amp, go for it. I don't believe that you will be at any disadvantage by doing so - and do some research into the VVT - a means of lowering output of a big amp, if required. Obviously a 100W beast might make your life difficult, but a 40-60W amp - bearing speaker efficiency in mind - isn't a terribly unattractive option, esp if you're looking for good cleans at a high SPL.
Good luck, and by the way.. The conditions are that you post a fully detailed build thread ? with pics! ?
TomCat
makepeace wrote:
Good luck, and by the way.. The conditions are that you post a fully detailed build thread ? with pics! ?
Absolutely.......no pics and detailed build thread....didn't happen...... ? ? ?
SnapcaseZA
Cool, thanks for the advice guys. I initially thought I could get away with a cheaper amp than buying, but looking more closely with your recommendations it doesn't seem to be that easy. I still have a glimmer of hope left that I could build something fantastic for a fraction of the price ?, but it will take real time and thought.
Mainly though, I really don't want to just buy a kit amp and build it up. I want it to be my (electronic) design, from a mash up of a whole bunch of schematic options and sounds - that I like.
Give me a few months of research and I'll start one. I'll keep you guys involved with pics and info. Should be interesting. Who knows, if its a real success (I can dream cant I) maybe I'll flog a few off from here for cost or something ?
Nicholas-L
It's a good idea to do all the research you can before starting on this journey ? ... and once you're done you will want to build another one that's just different to the last one... ? It happened to me.
I can say that in my case it worked out cheaper to build my Soldano Clone than to have tried to buy one for R35k.
So go forth and mash up some circuits and get that amp that does all you want it to ?
And PICS PICS PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SnapcaseZA
Nicholas L wrote:
It's a good idea to do all the research you can before starting on this journey ? ... and once you're done you will want to build another one that's just different to the last one... ? It happened to me.
I can say that in my case it worked out cheaper to build my Soldano Clone than to have tried to buy one for R35k.
So go forth and mash up some circuits and get that amp that does all you want it to ?
And PICS PICS PICS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For sure, I'm not going to start until I understand everything properly. Did you go down to the electronic design and schematic level with your build? Just wondering if I could bounce some ideas and stuff off you?
MikeM
There are a handful of guys here that have. Post and you'll get help ?
Nephilyn-Lee
To be absolutely honest building a valve amp to save money is not the way to go if you are a beginner. I have built a 100 watt Marshall style amp and the total cost including importing costs are in excess of R7500 not including the immense amount of time it takes to learn all the fundamentals of amp building and the trade secrets of good tone! /gain /stability etc etc + the time to actually build and wire everything together. All this might sound quite negative but
if you are out to experiment, learn, have fun and just looking to create a unique sounding amp then go ahead and build one! The feeling of building an amp from scratch and playing through it with your guitar is an amazing feeling - - - - - > you feel like Frankenstein! ? 8)
O and be sure to take all the necessary precautions when working with valve amps due to the high voltages inside!
If you need to be pointed in the right direction of building then send me a PM......
