psyx
So I'm looking to buy an SG or LP... I dropped by my looking store and the salesman made me a good deal on a Gibson SG standard for ~R8K, which is a good price but still a bit out of my budget. So now I'm looking at the Epi SG G400's, which seem decent enough and retail for around R3500... Now , I know the Gibson is better, but is it twice as good as the Epiphone? and what if I pop in P90's into the Epi? Wont that make it almost just as good?
IceCreamMan
twice as good is impossible to define ...... economists speak of something called utility.
Returns on "goodness" diminish as guitars become more expensive......
nothing wrong with epiphones imho , others will disagree but my experience has generally been positive even with the latest ones.
8k for the gibson sounds a very very good price , my opinion is go fo that ..take a loan, sell a kidney , that will be a guitar u will keep for life, the epi chances are you wont.
Skywalker
Hmmm..... I picked up a super neat black SG400 off the forum a while ago for under R3k WITH a case and it kicks ass.
They are ace axes. The only thing that I've gotta do still is pop in the Tonerider generators that I grabbed last week and it will be a monster.
If you're looking for an investment then save up and go the Gibson route. If you're just looking for an axe to "do the job" then I reckon go for the Epi. They're good workhorses for the price IMO 8)
Rock n Roll!!!
DonovanB
Skywalker wrote:If you're just looking for an axe to "do the job" then I reckon go for the Epi. They're good workhorses for the price IMO 8)
Rock n Roll!!!
Says he with how many Zakk Wylde LP's? ?
Personally I think the only Epi worth it is one with a maple neck. But that's just my preference.
killafo
Hey
R8k for a SG ?hmmm. i'd sell someones left arm and get it.
I've had both. I've had an 2008 Epi LP standard and i now have a '93 Gibson LP std. Do yourself a favor and check out the build quality on the Epi, if it feels right and it looks like the bindings, frets and general body work look like it would last more than a couple months, then all that needs to be done is to replace the pickups. Thats pretty much the only difference. If you can't hear the difference then stick with the Epi (not trying to be rude or condesending in that remark).
Thats my 2 cents. Seriously...if you're strapped for cash take the epi and put new pups in. But dang R8k for a SG standard, hard to come by at that price......
GL ?.
Bob-Dubery
psyx wrote:
So I'm looking to buy an SG or LP... I dropped by my looking store and the salesman made me a good deal on a Gibson SG standard for ~R8K, which is a good price but still a bit out of my budget. So now I'm looking at the Epi SG G400's, which seem decent enough and retail for around R3500... Now , I know the Gibson is better, but is it twice as good as the Epiphone? and what if I pop in P90's into the Epi? Wont that make it almost just as good?
The Epiphone and the Gibson come with humbuckers, so dropping P90s into the Epi will not make it "the same" as the Gibson, and may well require some surgery.
Did you try them both? Did they both stay in tune? How was the set up? Try to get answers to these sort of questions. Don't worry about the name on the headstock. If the Epiphone doesn't feel as well set up then add R500 for a good setup. Then if you want to upgrade the pickups factor in that cost. Then see how it looks.
The Gibson probably has better machine heads and bridge as well.
So try to figure out what the differences are, which you can live with, which you can address via an upgrade or a setup and what the TOTAL
cost will be.
psyx
killafo wrote:
If you can't hear the difference then stick with the Epi (not trying to be rude or condesending in that remark).
Well beauty is in the EAR of the beholder so I guess I'll pack my amp and give them a try. I was also stunned when The salesman made me that price... But I visit them every weekend so I've gotten to know the guys pretty well.
X-rated Bob wrote:
The Epiphone and the Gibson come with humbuckers, so dropping P90s into the Epi will not make it "the same" as the Gibson, and may well require some surgery.
I spotted this limited edition Epi SG with Soap bar P-90's which sound pretty good...
http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/SG/Epiphone/Ltd-Ed-50th-Anniversary-1961-SG-Special.aspx
I'm not sure that these guitars are very easy to come by
X-rated Bob wrote:
Did you try them both? Did they both stay in tune? How was the set up? Try to get answers to these sort of questions. Don't worry about the name on the headstock. If the Epiphone doesn't feel as well set up then add R500 for a good setup. Then if you want to upgrade the pickups factor in that cost. Then see how it looks.
The Gibson probably has better machine heads and bridge as well.
So try to figure out what the differences are, which you can live with, which you can address via an upgrade or a setup and what the TOTAL
cost will be.
Point taken. I'll wait a month or two if I have to. If I save up for a while I may be able to squeeze out enough to invest in a Gibson. So I'll weigh up my options!
singemonkey
Epiphones vary dramatically in quality depending on which factory happens to be making them this month. It'd be important to play the respective guitars you're thinking of buying and not judge based on the names. Gibson sadly makes an unusually high proportion of duds for such a high-prestige maker. So make sure you play them, don't just eye-ball them.
Saying that, R8,000 is a very modest price for a new SG Standard. People have happily bought them for R12K.
Buying the Gibson you'll have all the feel-good of owning one of these fabled beasts, and it will depreciate in value very little when you walk out of the store. Keep it in good nick and you'll get your cash back + inflation increases if you decide to sell it.
I have Gibsons, so I'd choose to buy a Tokai because they're better on average, and always better finished, they have 2 rather than 3 piece bodies that many new Gibson SG Standards have, and because the Tokai SG is based on the original 1961 SGs which I prefer (deeper neck join, sharper body contours, small pickguard). But they don't have the prestige factor, and at the price you've been offered, they won't even be cheaper.
With regards to pickups, what will make a difference in an Epiphone is swapping out the stock pickups for tonerider pickups that are currently on sale practically for free. These are fantastic pickups that will dramatically improve and Epiphone. They have humbucker sized P90s too, which sound as good as any P90s I've ever heard. The stock Gibson pickups are pretty good though, so you probably won't see a big improvement swapping those out if you get the Gibson.
Save. The Gibson may not be twice as good as the Epi, but a professional level guitar still feels rather different to entry level instruments. The Epi you will definitely want to replace or make a backup guitar one day. The Gibson you may not.
psyx
singemonkey wrote:
I have Gibsons, so I'd choose to buy a Tokai because they're better on average, and always better finished, they have 2 rather than 3 piece bodies that many new Gibson SG Standards have, and because the Tokai SG is based on the original 1961 SGs which I prefer (deeper neck join, sharper body contours, small pickguard). But they don't have the prestige factor, and at the price you've been offered, they won't even be cheaper.
Just a pity that the Tokais are a bit pricey... :'(
Skywalker
Donovan Banks wrote:
Skywalker wrote:If you're just looking for an axe to "do the job" then I reckon go for the Epi. They're good workhorses for the price IMO 8)
Rock n Roll!!!
Says he with how many Zakk Wylde LP's? ?
Personally I think the only Epi worth it is one with a maple neck. But that's just my preference.
Hahaha ?
Nice Don.
I couldn't resist the SG when I saw it. Still love my Zakks more though. They're my true workhorses 8)
Miemie
The MIC Tokais aren't that expensive.Should work out about the same as the Epi.The wife got me one around new year and I was blown away.Miles better than any of the seven Epi's I have owned.You could pm Lance on the forum to find about current pricing etc.Good guy to do business with.
MikeM
Yup, can definitely attest to that. MIC Tokais have impressed me far more than I have been impressed by Epiphones.
However I'd still buy a Gibson given the chance.
free2rhyme
I wasn't too sold on my old gibson sg standard, it was good but not quite there.
I then compared to epiphones but there would be too many costly hardware changes to make.
The tokais were great too but i(shamefully) wanted the gibson to be on the headstock :?
I managed to save up for a gibson sg standard coil tap edition, it comes with burstbuckers and I was completely sold, it was a completely different beast, with a 60's speed neck to boot and didn't have that annoying neck dive that my previous one did...
Still have it and it impresses me every time I play it.
8k for a gibson sg standard is a great price either way if new or demo, second hand max 7k if in good condition
I think I saw Marshall music post some pictures of the coil split editions in stock, im not too ssure what they selling at though, they should only be about 1k more expensive than the standards...always worth a look into
DonovanB
Its not shameful to want Gibson on the headstock. Your guitar, your choice.
Ultimately in the real world you'll get more pats on the back for owning a certain guitar than you do for being an average/good muso
Wizard
Donovan Banks wrote:
Its not shameful to want Gibson on the headstock. Your guitar, your choice.
Ultimately in the real world you'll get more pats on the back for owning a certain guitar than you do for being an average/good muso
Get a therapist.
Re-establish your self-esteem.
Stop craving back pats.
Save a fortune.
(joke)
ZarK
In my experience a good player on average gear will sound significantly better than an average player on pro-gear... I find that the better I get as guitar player, the more I challenge myself to make any guitar/piece of gear sound as good as is possible -sometimes with surprising results... They say: Tone starts with your fingers and after many years I've started to believe 'them'.
Les Paul: Epiphone, Gibson or Tokai? It's important to be sure the guitar has a mahogany body if you're chasing the Les Paul tone. (Preferably with maple cap) With Epiphone LP's, in general I'd wait for a good second-hand Korean example to come along. Modern Epi's vary quite a bit in quality/finish from what I've seen. Exactly the same with Gibson, though... I find most Gibson LP's to be of average build quality and seriously over-priced for what you're getting... Apart from the name and generally sublime tone they offer, there are definitely better quality instruments out there at the same price point... If you're after a Gibson and find a Gem of a Les Paul, I'd say go for it but in my experience you have to weed through quite a number to get to a decent example.
Every Japanese made Tokai LP I've played was superior to both Epihone LP's and Gibson LP's with regards to... well, everything except the name on the headstock... The Gibson LP faded model offers some form of value-for-money but I'd probably end up over-capitalizing on upgrading parts/components to get it more in line with a Standard or Custom... I like the stripped-down look though...
For the money and if you can get over the name on the headstock, I'd go for a stock Japanese-made Tokai LP every time -at very least until Gibson gets their sh!t together and starts offering either significantly better fit and finish or reduced prices on their Les Paul range...
vic
@Alan and Norio....kindly make those icons for "flogging a dead horse" and "running into a brick wall" standard features here on GFSA...... It will get used pretty much.... ?
se7ent7
I know this is an old post, but I want to throw in my 2c having owned Epis and Gibsons:
I have to agree that throwing good pups in a decent Epi, will sound-wise get you within 80-90% of the Gibson's sound quality range.
However, the Gibsons, even the cheaper ones, are generally more keeper guitars than Epi's. It's subtle, but as I always say, when you zoom in (or get used to things), subtle gets big.
With the Gibsons the fine things, like better wood cuts, hardware materials and finish (nitro or satin) do add up and will make you a better player as you learn to appreciate and use the nuances.
One thing that never came up here (unless I missed it) is what SG you were offered at R8k? I'm assuming it's the SG faded (or "special") right?
I think they're great guitars and love the satin finish on them (makes up for a few years of "playing in").
If you go for an Epi, as has been said here, play all of them and choose the best (not that you shouldn't do that with Gibsons as well), and replace the pups (seriously, the stock Epi pickups are not good). Also, SG wise , stay away from the custom - even if you get a good price. Sure they look nice (i'm talking about the ivory one with the three pups), but they have very heavy paint jobs and their thick neck profile and flat wide frets aren't nice. The standard (G400s) are much better players.
PS: One last thing to you or anyone else... You can pick up a SG standard second hand for just over R10k these days. I'd try and sell the second kidney. You probably won't ever feel you have to upgrade your SG (unless you get really rich and go Custom shop or 61 reissue). But with the Faded/Special versions you might still... and the R2k difference between a new SG faded and a used SG standard is a no brainer.
se7ent7
PS: @ Zark... About korean vs Chinese Epis... I've always also heard this and generally found the Korean ones to be good.
However, I've been very impressed by many almost flawless Chinese ones i've seen lately.
I think the Chinese in the Epi factory have found their stride.
Anyone care to comment on that? Should we start a new thread? (there probably has been a few right? ?
Another things... some koreans (90's?) apparently had mahogany caps with maple veneer (anyone know if that's true?). And other spec deviations (compared to USA les pauls)
The Chinese ones seem mostly gibson-correctly spec'd (the basics, woods).
