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  • Is bad live sound affecting the industry? How to compensate for bad sound?

I don't want this to come off as a "rant" or anything, it's not what I aim to do, I firstly just want to tell you about the problem I see and hear in SA, and then would love to get AS MUCH feedback and discussion about this topic, as possible.
So please chime in and share your thoughts, insights, experience and suggestions.
I don't want to make this genre specific. We're all here because we love music, and I think we all want to see the music industry in SA grow and we all probably faced this problem.

So we went to Shivas Rock this Saturday and there were a couple of bands there.
I don't spend time in the crowds these days, I usually stand back and just ... LISTEN... to the bands.
I WANT to hear good bands, I WANT to discover good local music and support it, but this just seems a bit hopeless since the live sound these days is too bad to actually hear any music.

For example, the first band that played on Saturday didn't have half stacks for the guitars, and had a small bass amp.
Literally, and do DO mean LITERALLY, the only thing you could hear was cymbals. ???
Funny thing is that you couldn't hear vocals with the first band but you did hear vocals when the last band played.... ??? This make me wonder if the engineer actually hears the problem and just doesn't care or if he's gonna stick to the excuse that "he doesn't KNOW the bands 'sound' so he can't provide GOOD live sound" which I think is BS!
The last band used half stacks and had a bigger bass amp and you still couldn't hear any guitar detail, you just heard the bass pump on the palm muted stuff.

When we had a PA system for practice, a couple of years ago in one of my previous bands, I usually had to set up the PA, and we miced small 50W Laney guitar combo amps, direct output from the bass amp, and we were actually able to hear the guitars, bass and vocals ??? This is why I question the engineers.
I had to do a sound for a gig once, and it was literally my first time EVER doing a live gig's sound, and it was the first time I've even seen that specific mixer. It was a Yamaha 01V digital mixer. Man was a scared of spoiling everyone's night! ? but you could actually hear everything. It really at least was good enough.
You were able to HEAR the lyrics!

I REFUSE to believe that we don't have talented musicians and I REFUSE to believe that musicians in South Africa can't write good music.
I REFUSE to believe that this stigma surrounding live bands in SA, saying that all SA bands suck and is below international level, is true.
One thing that I always say is that the musicians needs to be their own "sound engineers". They're also responsible in how good/bad their live sound is.
But I've heard of engineers that believe a PA system isn't an FRFR system and "shapes the sound" sort of like a guitar cab. ??? (Even with flat EQs on the mixer)
I'm just pretty sure that I'm not the only one that feels irritated with the fact that you can't discover music at live gigs because the sound sucks too much.

I've went to too many gigs where the bass guitar is literally louder than the lead guitar, but the sound engineer just sits back and plays around on his cellphone. ??? WTF!
That time I had to do live sound, I was literally CONSTANTLY busy with the sound and trying to make improvements, trying to anticipate changes in the music where the balance might be thrown of a little and then compensating for it, etc. That's why it say engineer's excuses are BS!
Or at this one gig you weren't able hear any guitars or vocals, the overhead mics are turned up so the cymbals are louder than the snare and the engineer is actually outside having a smoke! I kid you not!
Yes, the acoustics of the venue also has it's role but seriously, a person can at the very least get an "okay" sound and make the vocals be heard, etc.

This entire problem looks like it's a big factor in what seems to me, to be the demise of live gig scene and I think it's also affecting the artist's true potential of building a fan base and creating some sort of following.

One thing I would LOVE to try out is to use an electronic drum kit and trigger something like Superior Drummer and also have my guitar signal from my Axe-FX go direct to the PA and you take away the engineers job of having to balance a drum kit since it often seems to be a bit too difficult.

I've heard some local gigs that have great sound and the engineer really did a good job, so please don't think that I'm saying something like ALL engineers are bad or anything like that. ?
But I'm pretty sure we've all had those gigs where you felt so disappointed afterwards because the sound was so bad and the very obvious MAJOR problems were just left alone and nothing was done to improve it.

I've seen so many engineers just stick a 57, on axis, dead center in front of the speaker, right against the cloth and that positions almost NEVER sounds good! A step that I've taken so far, is to make suggestions to bands I know, on ways to mic their guitar cabs and it has definitely helped them.

What are your thoughts on sound of live shows in SA?
Do you think it kinda hinders artist's potential of getting fans?
What would you suggest to up and coming artists to improve their live sound as much as possible, in less than ideal conditions?
What can we as an entire music community do to make a change, make progress and improve the "gigging conditions", to increase the chances of artists making a couple extra people in the crowd FEEL the need to support the music because they can actually HEAR the music?

If bad sound results in just ONE lost fan, it's one fan too many!
    Please do rant, this is my favorite SA music pony to beat with a stick, and your expression of anger helps me feel sane.
    I the 90's in my previous band, we only started doing well with gigs when we brought in our ow engineer. I wouldnt do a gig without someone I trust behind the faders. The metal gigs I've been to, even Ensiferum, the sound has been shocking. I generally try stand close to the stage so I can hear the guitar amps on stage.
    Most 'sound engineers' at gigs are actually just 'the guy who owns the PA'. He's getting paid weather the bands sound good or not. We're battling with this ourselves, no point in playing your heart out when no one is going to hear you.
    I've worked in a non musical capacity with some of the top sound engineers in the country. These guys pull R3k a gig, well beyond the budget of the average band.

    Ps. The Blackout Fest in Kemptonpark this year, the sound was actually good, even if it was the coldest night of the year and I couldnt feel my face.
      Hmmm, yes, a bad engineer can completely ruin a good band. It seems in the cheaper venue's they just seem to let the bar-tenders or the closest staff member be the designated engineer, which is NOT how it works. I must ask, this Shivas place you went to, is it a low-key gigging venue, cause quite often the smallest pups that don't put effort and energy into their sound have the worst sound. HOWEVER, that being said, there is one venue in Cape Town that I still maintain has the best sound ever. ROAR, that dodgy club in observatory. I absolutely despise the venue, its so dark and creepy, BUT, they have the best sound I have ever heard, and its ALWAYs the same engineer. He is a legend! So any club can have a good sound, just depends on the funding, and the right engineers!

      Sound in SA is fine in my opinion, its just the small-time club owners mentality that makes them think, agggg, "we don't need to spend 50k on a good system, 12k will be just fine". Quality costs money. But I wouldn't go as far as to say it could kill a band's sound. If the band was truly good to start with, as in has amazing melodies and hooks and lines, the crowd could forgive bad sound, obviously, the extent of bad sound is a factor to consider. The band should be prepared and know what their sound is without relying on sound engineers, heck, carry your own personal engineer if you can, it will just elavate you to a more professional status. So know your sound, know your every pedal effect, and what volumes you want where and when etc.
        Well, all I can add is that shitty sound is not limited to small venues alone.

        I went and watched The Script recently at the Dome in Northriding. The sound was >AWFUL<! It started out kak with The Arrows (local supporting act) and just stayed terrible for the entire show. This is a band that relies heavily on clear vocals and melodic lines, and you couldn't hear anything in the sonic swamp pouring out of the speakers.

        Aside from that, I'm generally unimpressed by the sound quality in most venues. Tanz Cafe, at least, is better than the old venue where it was just way too loud and harsh.
          Warren wrote: Well, all I can add is that shitty sound is not limited to small venues alone.

          I went and watched The Script recently at the Dome in Northriding. The sound was >AWFUL<! It started out kak with The Arrows (local supporting act) and just stayed terrible for the entire show. This is a band that relies heavily on clear vocals and melodic lines, and you couldn't hear anything in the sonic swamp pouring out of the speakers.

          Aside from that, I'm generally unimpressed by the sound quality in most venues. Tanz Cafe, at least, is better than the old venue where it was just way too loud and harsh.
          Because 'the Dome' is, well, 'a dome', all the sound reflections happen in the center of the room, its like having a chamber reverb on full wet permanently, right where most of the audience are standing, causing all sorts of phasing ect. That venue should never host live gigs, and they know full well what the issues are.
            Averatu wrote:
            Because 'the Dome' is, well, 'a dome', all the sound reflections happen in the center of the room, its like having a chamber reverb on full wet permanently, right where most of the audience are standing, causing all sorts of phasing ect. That venue should never host live gigs, and they know full well what the issues are.
            Sure, but I've been to see Live, Jamiroquai, etc. at the same venue, in practically the same seats, and on those occassions the sound was AWESOME. When I saw Live, the vocals were crystal clear, and JK was just fantastic. So, acoustic impairments aside, it IS possible to get a great sound in that venue.
              Warren wrote:
              Averatu wrote:
              Because 'the Dome' is, well, 'a dome', all the sound reflections happen in the center of the room, its like having a chamber reverb on full wet permanently, right where most of the audience are standing, causing all sorts of phasing ect. That venue should never host live gigs, and they know full well what the issues are.
              Sure, but I've been to see Live, Jamiroquai, etc. at the same venue, in practically the same seats, and on those occassions the sound was AWESOME. When I saw Live, the vocals were crystal clear, and JK was just fantastic. So, acoustic impairments aside, it IS possible to get a great sound in that venue.
              Add to that list Rammstein. Really exceptional sound quality, I was really impressed. Obviously they can afford a good sound engineer ?
                To be honest, there are a few "regular" engineers that mostly do the gigs around here in PTA that I've been to. People always hire the same guy even though it sounds like crap.
                I've seen the one "regular" guy do sound for Chromium and it still sounded absolutely horrible... all you hear is this low constant bass rumble and a crazy amount of cymbals.
                Again he was just sitting there on his cellphone. And this is for a band that has some decent equipment on stage.
                I would honestly not have known it was Chromium playing if I didn't see the posters at the club. I wasn't even able to recognize one song.
                These "regular" sound guys have been around for at least about 7 years that I know of, with their own PA systems.

                At other gigs the SPL is so high that your ears start making that crackling noise even when you're not close to the speakers.
                Even the sound at the Coke Fest wasn't this loud haha

                But yes, the festivals usually have better sound when there's a reputable business responsible for the sound.

                Almost ALL of my friends say they don't enjoy going to gigs anymore because the sound is ALWAYS horrible. This is just in their opinion, but how many people these days decide to rather not go support live acts since they feel it to be a bit pointless since they can't hear anything.
                Comparing the way it looks to me now, to how I remember it to be when I first started gigging in 2005, the live shows really seems to have died down somewhat.
                In 2005, our band arranged a gig and we spent only a little more than 1 week to promote the gig and there were ALOT of people. This was before Facebook and even MXIT and we just handed out some flyers, etc. ? Good times!! ?
                These days, the events are promoted all over Facebook and you hear these band's names all the time online and then there's like 50 people at the gig?!? Including all the friend the band brought along.

                Recently someone I know launched their debut album, and they even announced it in a radio interview with one of the members. The event was promoted on Facebook, etc, etc.
                A couple of my friends went the launch and they said there were like 30-40 people.... They said after the gig they thought to themselves that they doubt they will ever go to shows at that specific venue again because the sound just keeps getting worse and worse. ?

                If I take the reason that I hear most my friends use NOT to go to gigs, and combine it with the disappointing amount of people at some gigs, it seems that bad live sound is killing some of the support more than it should.

                Even if there's just a slow and steady decline in support for live acts, it surely is a decline that artists cannot afford.

                One thing that I've seen NOT help the situation is the music colleges around here. The things they teach you about sound is mostly a joke.
                  This may come as no surprise this comment, but every small crappy venue I have been to here in Florida to every large venue has been wel mixed..... this includes venues with very little to the PA to venues with a huge system...

                  I think it comes down to knowing what you have and getting the best out of it......
                    MIKA the better one wrote: This may come as no surprise this comment, but every small crappy venue I have been to here in Florida to every large venue has been wel mixed..... this includes venues with very little to the PA to venues with a huge system...

                    I think it comes down to knowing what you have and getting the best out of it......
                    True. Someone who cares can get a better mix out of a crappy system than someone with the biggest fanciest rig who couldnt care less.
                      In general, you get what you pay for. So,the band has got to be good, have reasonable equipment and th venue must have a reasonable PA run by a reasonable engineer. Take out any one of these and the sound will be bad. I happen to know a few really top notch sound engineers and unlike someone mentioned previously, they tend to earn very little and have to work really bad hours. They spend days cleaning and packing the kit for a gig, travel in slow un airconditioned trucks to venues, spend hours lifting and carying heavy kit and swinging from the pipe work. Then the bands pitch and each has different kit and want all kinds of 'special' settings and tend to treat the engineers like dirt.

                      Finally the show get started and the engineer now has to eat a hasty greasy, cold burger and drink a warm drink as the bands play. After the last band has played then the whole kit has to be broken down and packed before the bands walk off with their kit and then drive home in the early hour of the morning. Then they get to sleep 2 hours as they have to be up for the next gig.

                      So, if you treat the engineer like that, give him inferior equipment to work with in venues with bad acoustics then you can't expect much more.

                      For smaller venues with their own kit, it has already been mentioned that the 'engineer' is generally the barman or waiter who barely knows how to work a hi-fi and the PA is some cheep special picked up at a pawn shop. To get loud enough sound, they have to turn everything up till it distorts and sounds really bad. They have no vested interest in making the band sound good.

                      My suggestion is to get a good engineer to be part of you band who gets paid the same as the rest of the band and knows how to get the sounds that the band want and knows when to boost the solos. Get good kit and practice using it BEFORE a gig so that you know exactly what is happening. Otherwise, hire a professional sound company that have good references to do it for you.
                        DonRoos wrote: In general, you get what you pay for. So,the band has got to be good, have reasonable equipment and th venue must have a reasonable PA run by a reasonable engineer. Take out any one of these and the sound will be bad. I happen to know a few really top notch sound engineers and unlike someone mentioned previously, they tend to earn very little and have to work really bad hours. They spend days cleaning and packing the kit for a gig, travel in slow un airconditioned trucks to venues, spend hours lifting and carying heavy kit and swinging from the pipe work. Then the bands pitch and each has different kit and want all kinds of 'special' settings and tend to treat the engineers like dirt.

                        Finally the show get started and the engineer now has to eat a hasty greasy, cold burger and drink a warm drink as the bands play. After the last band has played then the whole kit has to be broken down and packed before the bands walk off with their kit and then drive home in the early hour of the morning. Then they get to sleep 2 hours as they have to be up for the next gig.

                        So, if you treat the engineer like that, give him inferior equipment to work with in venues with bad acoustics then you can't expect much more.

                        For smaller venues with their own kit, it has already been mentioned that the 'engineer' is generally the barman or waiter who barely knows how to work a hi-fi and the PA is some cheep special picked up at a pawn shop. To get loud enough sound, they have to turn everything up till it distorts and sounds really bad. They have no vested interest in making the band sound good.

                        My suggestion is to get a good engineer to be part of you band who gets paid the same as the rest of the band and knows how to get the sounds that the band want and knows when to boost the solos. Get good kit and practice using it BEFORE a gig so that you know exactly what is happening. Otherwise, hire a professional sound company that have good references to do it for you.
                        I'm missing something, your description sounds like a roady? A roady is never responsible for a band's FOH mix. You cant expect a guy who paid thousands of rands and studied for 3 years to gain his diploma to lug equipment around (http://www.ase.co.za/). One of my best friends owns a sound hire company. He pays his experienced stage hands R750 a gig to do the 'dog work' you describe, not bad pay when the minimum wage is R44.00 a day. The last gig we did at the Bo before Wouda died, he handed us R450 after the show. Demographically, if you're not a gospel/jazz/afro jazz act, your market share is next to nothing, you're not in the money. And this is where all the top sound guys end up working, and earning decent money that the rest of us cant afford to pay them to come mix our gigs. So we take a chance with a noob or the owner of the PA.

                        As one of my carpenter friends keeps telling me: "Jy wou nie na you ma luister en gaan study nie, nou moet jy werk soos 'n moeggoe en sweet"
                          One thing I've noticed a few times, especially when I recognized the same engineer doing different gigs, is that they very often don't wear any ear protection.

                          Some guys that I've recognized go as far back as 2005 and they still don't wear ear protection.

                          It makes sense that some guys have lost some hearing in the higher frequencies cause the high frequencies are often boosted way too much. I've literally spent HOURS at gigs with my fingers blocking my ears cause it's WAY too loud and then the highs get boosted for almost everything.
                          Every single time I forget my Noise-Bans at home, it ends up being one of those gigs where they really went all out to make the sound suck as much as possible.

                          Averatu wrote: Demographically, if you're not a gospel/jazz/afro jazz act, your market share is next to nothing, you're not in the money.
                          This is kind of making me wonder.
                          There's another thread "Where are all the metal heads", and it reminds me in some way of many of my friends.
                          Many people I know rather go to Hatfield or avoid gigs because they don't find live bands in the area entertaining enough anymore because they can't hear any music. The astonishing thing is that this comes from people that are usually thought of as "not knowing anything about music". They don't play instruments and they don't even know how to hold an guitar or drumsticks, etc. I've heard so many bands tell me that it doesn't matter if it doesn't sound good, because half of the crowd doesn't know anything about music...
                          I think just normal music listeners are very capable of being able to tell if something sounds good or bad.

                          Is it some kind of snowball effect?

                          People don't want to go to gigs as much anymore because it's sound too bad.
                          The sound guy cares even less whether it sounds good or not, and so a couple more people would think twice next about actually coming to another gig.
                          So the market for artists become even smaller.

                          I've seen venues get only about 30-40 people at a show these days where they used to get literally HUNDREDS of people at the same kind of gig a couple of years ago. I believe the sound is to blame because a couple of years ago the sound was "good enough" at this specific venue but now it's beyond terrible.

                          This is the kind of downwards trend I'm talking about.
                          Everyone KNOWS there's a problem. How can bands, artists, fans, or anyone for that matter help find a solution. Start a trend improve things.
                          It's sorta like the loudness war. The negatives outweigh the positives but how can people help make things better.
                            One thing I would LOVE to try out is to use an electronic drum kit and trigger something like Superior Drummer and also have my guitar signal from my Axe-FX go direct to the PA and you take away the engineers job of having to balance a drum kit since it often seems to be a bit too difficult.
                            this is how i have been gigging lately.
                            Edrums into superior, bass DI'd and guitar running an amp sim (iphone4).
                            all of us using in-ears.

                            too many venues have noise problems plus really bad acoustics.
                            also too many drummers hit too hard.

                            now i can do a rock show in a small resturant ?
                              sharonzaz wrote:
                              One thing I would LOVE to try out is to use an electronic drum kit and trigger something like Superior Drummer and also have my guitar signal from my Axe-FX go direct to the PA and you take away the engineers job of having to balance a drum kit since it often seems to be a bit too difficult.
                              this is how i have been gigging lately.
                              Edrums into superior, bass DI'd and guitar running an amp sim (iphone4).
                              all of us using in-ears.

                              too many venues have noise problems plus really bad acoustics.
                              also too many drummers hit too hard.

                              now i can do a rock show in a small resturant ?
                              Wicked!
                              How is it turning out for you? Is working well or not so well?
                              We do band practice like this at home on some studio monitors and the drummer usually uses headphones and it sounds great! It sounds almost exactly like our recordings since it's the same instruments.

                              I would love to see this live! [hint hint] let me know!

                              How do the sound guys respond? Do they like it or are they kinda annoyed that there's this one band that now wants to do everything differently? And now he can't even boost all the EQ's to death! Haha
                              And lastly, how easy is it to sort out the drum setup? Do you take away the acoustic kit or do you set up next to it even on small stages?

                              I've been thinking of getting one of those electric/acoustic kits so it still feels very natural to the drummer except that it doesn't make all the noise and it sounds absolutely perfectly miced and mixed every single time.
                              Jobeky drums are actually quite inexpensive compared to the Pearl kit I've heard some people mention.
                              Yes you have to import them but that's the beauty of having friends in other countries ? being able to load it on a container ? no import costs

                              I'm gonna ask a friend sometime if we can borrow his PA for a day and test the set up and work out all the potential hick-ups and plan ahead, etc and then I seriously think we also need to consider this live setup.
                                Averatu wrote:
                                DonRoos wrote: In general, you get what you pay for. So,the band has got to be good, have reasonable equipment and th venue must have a reasonable PA run by a reasonable engineer. Take out any one of these and the sound will be bad. I happen to know a few really top notch sound engineers and unlike someone mentioned previously, they tend to earn very little and have to work really bad hours. They spend days cleaning and packing the kit for a gig, travel in slow un airconditioned trucks to venues, spend hours lifting and carying heavy kit and swinging from the pipe work. Then the bands pitch and each has different kit and want all kinds of 'special' settings and tend to treat the engineers like dirt.

                                Finally the show get started and the engineer now has to eat a hasty greasy, cold burger and drink a warm drink as the bands play. After the last band has played then the whole kit has to be broken down and packed before the bands walk off with their kit and then drive home in the early hour of the morning. Then they get to sleep 2 hours as they have to be up for the next gig.

                                So, if you treat the engineer like that, give him inferior equipment to work with in venues with bad acoustics then you can't expect much more.

                                For smaller venues with their own kit, it has already been mentioned that the 'engineer' is generally the barman or waiter who barely knows how to work a hi-fi and the PA is some cheep special picked up at a pawn shop. To get loud enough sound, they have to turn everything up till it distorts and sounds really bad. They have no vested interest in making the band sound good.

                                My suggestion is to get a good engineer to be part of you band who gets paid the same as the rest of the band and knows how to get the sounds that the band want and knows when to boost the solos. Get good kit and practice using it BEFORE a gig so that you know exactly what is happening. Otherwise, hire a professional sound company that have good references to do it for you.
                                I'm missing something, your description sounds like a roady? A roady is never responsible for a band's FOH mix. You cant expect a guy who paid thousands of rands and studied for 3 years to gain his diploma to lug equipment around (http://www.ase.co.za/). One of my best friends owns a sound hire company. He pays his experienced stage hands R750 a gig to do the 'dog work' you describe, not bad pay when the minimum wage is R44.00 a day. The last gig we did at the Bo before Wouda died, he handed us R450 after the show. Demographically, if you're not a gospel/jazz/afro jazz act, your market share is next to nothing, you're not in the money. And this is where all the top sound guys end up working, and earning decent money that the rest of us cant afford to pay them to come mix our gigs. So we take a chance with a noob or the owner of the PA.

                                As one of my carpenter friends keeps telling me: "Jy wou nie na you ma luister en gaan study nie, nou moet jy werk soos 'n moeggoe en sweet"
                                Well,not really. There are so few paying jobs for engineers that they have to take what they can get. For a few thousand a MONTH, these guys are expected to do everything. R750 for a gig might sound great but if you are only doing 4 gigs a month, that is not a decent wage!
                                  Also gigging with Edrums and often a DI'd guitar. Only using Superior/EZ in studio though as I don't want to gig with a PC.
                                  b1scu1t wrote: How do the sound guys respond? Do they like it or are they kinda annoyed that there's this one band that now wants to do everything differently? And now he can't even boost all the EQ's to death! Haha
                                  Sound guys love DI. Takes away most of their problems if everyone is DI'd. No feedback, lower stage volumes, less setup time. Every time we use the electronic kit, the venue owner usually says "it's never sounded this good".
                                  And lastly, how easy is it to sort out the drum setup? Do you take away the acoustic kit or do you set up next to it even on small stages?
                                  Speaking for myself with the Roland TD12, it's a dream - we don't even take the kit apart. One person can lift the whole kit easily aside from the pedals (although two people to carry makes it easier to navigate doorways, etc.), and it loads on to the back of my drummer's bakkie (a small 1400 Opel). Get to the gig and we just take it off the bakkie and plop it on stage. I've also got it set up so it is quite compact - more so than acoustic drums.
                                  I've been thinking of getting one of those electric/acoustic kits so it still feels very natural to the drummer
                                  Mesh heads also feel very natural. The response is a bit different with any electronic kit, but it's actually more forgiving (so a bonus for me). Jobecky drums give you the same look as an acoustic kit, which is important in some cases.

                                  Biggest downsides of DI-ing is you have to rely on monitors and you have to have enough power in the PA to handle everything. But FOH sound is improved in most setups and so is monitor sound and stage levels come down.

                                  BTW, you can also use a real acoustic kit and add triggers and sound module for DI-ing. The downside is the acoustic kit still generates noise.
                                    Alan Ratcliffe wrote: BTW, you can also use a real acoustic kit and add triggers and sound module for DI-ing. The downside is the acoustic kit still generates noise.
                                    I guess there's still quite a stygma against electric kits though - associations with dodgy '80s pop bands. You could certainly avoid that by having something that looks just like an acoustic kit - even if, secretly, it isn't.

                                    I agree that a lot of sound guys are no good. It's a bit of a puzzler, frankly, because you think that most would be looking up ways to improve their craft. But it's the rare exception who gives you total confidence that they've actually got things sorted out.

                                    I regularly use a vintage AKG dynamic that was one of the standard vocal mics on stage during the late sixties in Britain. Now I make no claims to know whether it's as good, or better, than your basic shure sm58 (although recent reviews I've read say it's a darker, warmer, more condensor-like mic - although I'm not sure my experience has confirmed that). But it's galling when the sound guy takes one look at it and makes some condescending remark - like I've brought along some karaoke mic, instead of a professional microphone that's shared stages with some of the greatest performers, in the most prestigious venues in history.
                                      b1scu1t wrote:
                                      sharonzaz wrote:
                                      One thing I would LOVE to try out is to use an electronic drum kit and trigger something like Superior Drummer and also have my guitar signal from my Axe-FX go direct to the PA and you take away the engineers job of having to balance a drum kit since it often seems to be a bit too difficult.
                                      this is how i have been gigging lately.
                                      Edrums into superior, bass DI'd and guitar running an amp sim (iphone4).
                                      all of us using in-ears.

                                      too many venues have noise problems plus really bad acoustics.
                                      also too many drummers hit too hard.

                                      now i can do a rock show in a small resturant ?
                                      Wicked!
                                      How is it turning out for you? Is working well or not so well?
                                      We do band practice like this at home on some studio monitors and the drummer usually uses headphones and it sounds great! It sounds almost exactly like our recordings since it's the same instruments.

                                      I would love to see this live! [hint hint] let me know!

                                      How do the sound guys respond? Do they like it or are they kinda annoyed that there's this one band that now wants to do everything differently? And now he can't even boost all the EQ's to death! Haha
                                      And lastly, how easy is it to sort out the drum setup? Do you take away the acoustic kit or do you set up next to it even on small stages?

                                      I've been thinking of getting one of those electric/acoustic kits so it still feels very natural to the drummer except that it doesn't make all the noise and it sounds absolutely perfectly miced and mixed every single time.
                                      Jobeky drums are actually quite inexpensive compared to the Pearl kit I've heard some people mention.
                                      Yes you have to import them but that's the beauty of having friends in other countries ? being able to load it on a container ? no import costs

                                      I'm gonna ask a friend sometime if we can borrow his PA for a day and test the set up and work out all the potential hick-ups and plan ahead, etc and then I seriously think we also need to seriously consider this live setup.
                                      The setup is great, though not all my drummers like the Edrum setup...
                                      The sound engineer loves it! (cos its me).

                                      You can come catch us this Saturday (19th) at Thirst, very close to Atterbury retail mall (next to the big PnP Hypermarket) 7pm.
                                      this week its gonna be a little different, Im having a friend whos not really a drummer fill in, but as he plays other
                                      instruments too, we all gonna play some musical chairs through the nite and each will have a go at doing something different.
                                      should be fun ?
                                      come and introduce yourself if youre coming, im the crazy ass jew in the band. ?
                                        I think its not only sound guys that are to blame. I've seen this in multiple different bands at shows, where its just impossible to get the sound right because multiple guitar players want to be heard clearly, even if thats not really necessary for their respective roles. One thing that is noticeable is when (sorry Hellfire, this is you too a while back), is that one guitar player has an easy setup to tweak and the other doesn't. Due to imbalances in the EQ/volume that results a loudness war ensues which buggers the vocals too. Now, Hellfire has this thing sorted and their sound is pretty good. But I was there for their last 10000 gigs and saw the technical difficulties that can come about, regardless of the engineer, with multiple guitars / vocals. I can only imagine what could have happened had they both had big loud amps that "needed to be turned up to sound good."