and you just 
This is a 55/58 conversion for sale on another forum


This is a 55/58 conversion for sale on another forum

Chad, because these guitars were all painted gold, underneath the paint they were typically 3 piece, mismatched tops (for e.g., flame, plain, birdseye all on one top - a little bit messy) or 2 piece but not centre-seamed (the join was off centre). And the 2 piece tops might also very well be mismatched (plain/flame mix). When they made them they were never anticipating that anyone would strip them to the wood-grain. So it is a rare treat to find one that does have a matched centre-seam with flames.Chad Adam Browne wrote: Knowing what kind of price that guitar would probably fetch I don't really think that top looks THAT great...
Just my opinion though, I've seen nicer tops than that and I think the photograph itself makes that guitar look quite a bit better than it would in person under normal light.
So essentially it's like a lucky dip, and still not worth the money just cause it's old ?singemonkey wrote:Chad, because these guitars were all painted gold, underneath the paint they were typically 3 piece, mismatched tops (for e.g., flame, plain, birdseye all on one top - a little bit messy) or 2 piece but not centre-seamed (the join was off centre). And the 2 piece tops might also very well be mismatched (plain/flame mix). When they made them they were never anticipating that anyone would strip them to the wood-grain. So it is a rare treat to find one that does have a matched centre-seam with flames.Chad Adam Browne wrote: Knowing what kind of price that guitar would probably fetch I don't really think that top looks THAT great...
Just my opinion though, I've seen nicer tops than that and I think the photograph itself makes that guitar look quite a bit better than it would in person under normal light.
Bear in mind that, even if the top is original, even if it goes for a lot of money for an LP, it won't go for a fraction of what a sunburst, humbucker LP - that started off life as a sunburst, 'bucker LP - will go for. So it can be a great way to get a '50s 'burst without paying for a '50s 'burst ?
And a top like this one will appeal to a lot of people. Not even all '59 sunburst LPs had figuring. Some were total plain Janes - although that was more common on '58s. And these broad stripes certainly have their fans.
@Reinhard: any word on whether the top's original?
Stripping the tops of '50s gold-tops is a lucky dip. That's correct. Not worth the money just cos it's old? I don't think so. Apart from the fact that the original LPs were among the best ever made (although I'd be very skeptical that all were better than any of the much more numerous replicas that have been made since), they're still frighteningly rare. So while the guitar may be more valuable as an all-original '55 gold-top with P90s, that may change. The mystique of '50s LPs is such that they are guaranteed to increase in value above inflation for the foreseeable future - even if they've been extensively modified.Chad Adam Browne wrote:
So essentially it's like a lucky dip, and still not worth the money just cause it's old ?
I don't subscribe to the philosophy that guitars should be worth more because they're old, I also don't believe the stories of older guitars being better than newer ones. If you get a custom made LP style guitar from a custom luthier you would probably end up getting something better than an old anything really at around about the same price or less ($4k or more - seen some go up to $17k) All your paying for in this case is the name on the headstock, guitar design and quality has gone up with technology and a guitar made with really high spec everything (wood, pickups etc) in this day and age is probably a more than equal rival to any of the old les', SGs etc.singemonkey wrote: I mean, people in the early '80s must have wondered what they were doing when the forked over $5,000 for a good 'burst. They probably feel more assured now that they can go for upwards of $450,000 ?
I think there's a bit more justification with acoustic guitars because of the effect of the aging of the wood on tone. Probably for archtops as well. Usually though that tone comes with some dings, some wear and tear. Hugh Cumming has a couple of nice 40-ish year old Martins with great tone. But they don't look like new guitars and at least one of them (possibly both) has a t-bar in the neck instead of an adjustable truss rod. They're guaranteed to need a neck reset at some point - but they do sound good. There is a school of thought though that says that flat tops don't keep on getting better, they peak and then decline.Chad Adam Browne wrote:
I don't mean for this to start some sort of flame war but honestly the prices wanted for vintage instruments are completely unjustified from a quality perspective, people are simply paying this much as investments and for the bragging rights. They are by no means "better" guitars than modern custom instruments and therefore their price is unjustifiable to me. It really is just fanboyism to it's highest degree, and I want no part of it ?
With acoustic guitars it's Brazilian rosewood that is supposed to be the holy grail. You can't get an objective take on this. Some say that it's a load of hooey, that Brazilian doesn't sound any better than the East Indian you usually get these days and that it's a myth that's been put around by people who have got an interest in driving up the price of old guitars that have Brazilian rosewood. The flip side of the argument is that OF COURSE those guys would say that - they don't have any Brazilian rosewood.Chad Adam Browne wrote: The other big argument I'm always hearing is that they used Honduran mahogany which you can't get anymore, for anyone interested this is false, you can get it but it's damn expensive. Suhr use it for their Guthrie Govan signature model and Decibel guitars recently used it for their Javelin DB1 model. Also Honduran mahogany is a close relative to our African mahogany, however African mahogany isn't as favoured because it tends to grow into being a denser wood, Honduran is very light and porous because of the location it's grown in's climate.
I'm unconvinced. Modern manufacturing techniques should be much more consistent. Necks, bodies, bridges and almost every other component can be manufactured with a high degree of consistency these days.singemonkey wrote: The main reason those '50s LPs and '50s-'60s Strats are so valuable is that those are the guitars that started it all. And no more are being made until someone invents a time-machine. Simple as that. They were well made (by hand to a much larger extent than today), generally very consistent (despite being production, not luthier custom models)
This I can agree to, my argument was mainly from an electric perspective ?X-rated Bob wrote: I think there's a bit more justification with acoustic guitars because of the effect of the aging of the wood on tone. Probably for archtops as well. Usually though that tone comes with some dings, some wear and tear. Hugh Cumming has a couple of nice 40-ish year old Martins with great tone. But they don't look like new guitars and at least one of them (possibly both) has a t-bar in the neck instead of an adjustable truss rod. They're guaranteed to need a neck reset at some point - but they do sound good. There is a school of thought though that says that flat tops don't keep on getting better, they peak and then decline.
This I agree to as well, I just have no sense of nostalgia when it comes down to it ?singemonkey wrote: But if you're buying a guitar for the best tone, you can get a fantastic luthier like Gil Sharon (who apparently discards LP bodies and starts over if they fail his initial tap-test) to make you 10 sunburst replicas for less than the price of one original and choose the best one. But history and collector's value count in a different way. And that's why these guitars cost what they do.
Wood quality wise if you purchase a piece from a reputable seller and it's advertised as being correctly dried then it probably is. The nitro lacquer thing is just a question of age, to my knowledge it's still quite a common finish and most likely done more consistently these days allowing the wood to resonate better from the get go. With regards to the pickups, age plays a factor as sweat plays a part in smoothing out a pickups response as it slightly corrodes it, also the original pafs had a specific kind of wire that was "special" somehow. Recently PRS bought a bunch of pickup winding machines from Gibson that still had some of this wire and they've manufactured pickups from it that currently I know they fit to their Al Di Meola signature, more on that here:Reinhard wrote: What these old guitars have in their favour is the wood has been properly dried, the nitro laquer has cured fully, some argue the hide glue leads to a better neck joint and the lack of plastisizer (sp?) leads to a very nice and hard finish when cured. All this leads to a very resonant piece of wood. Also there is something about those old pickups that the modern guys are chasing, but just not nailing.
This probably isn't always the case though, I'd imagine most of these guitars come with an interesting story but I'm sure when the vintage market started booming the ones that lay under beds soon came out and are probably very very highly priced anyway making them a bit more unobtainable. I'm just assuming that if scoring one of these is considered a luck then that luck probably started running very thin around 1998 ?Reinhard wrote: I also don't buy the"it still looks new so it probably sounds crap" argument. Today just like back then, someone buys a guitar, gives up on it and it ends up under a bed or in a cupboard.
I realise this, didn't run them through effects. Just valve amps and certain solid states (JC120) ?Reinhard wrote: Keep in mind, if you run a vintage guitar through a POS amp or a bunch of effects you're probably not going to hear anything special compared to a new guitar.